Live Conflict Israel-Palestine War|Regional Escalations

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The Mujahideen Brigades, an armed wing of the Palestinian Mujahideen Movement, posted a new video of their fighters in an underground tunnel, allegedly near Gaza.


The Al-Aqsa Brigades are alerting everyone.
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The reports relate to about 30 to 50 attacks in the last minutes and all are concentrated in the area of Sheikh Zayed, north of Jabalya/GAZA

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the latest report:
Palestinian reports that the death toll in Sheikh Zayed has risen to four.
 
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Philip the Arab

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Iron Dome has been exposed, it can be overwhelmed by 5-6 BM-21 Grad launchers firing barrages followed by GPS guided rockets targeting the radars and launchers which I know Hamas doesn't have but its likely Hezbollah does.

Long range artillery rockets are the best option that Hezb has in any future conflict to cause mass damage in my opinion. Targeting IDF airbases would be a good strategy for them I suppose, if a few hundred could hit an airbase it would be put out of actions for days.
 
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The worsening conflict between Israel and the Palestinians is causing considerable embarrassment for those Arab governments that recently normalised relations with Israel.
The much-trumpeted Abraham Accords - that saw the UAE, Bahrain, Morocco and Sudan all sign agreements with Israel - were always going to be hostage to events on the ground. Now those events have descended into deadly violence, any further public warming of relations between the Arab states and Israel has been put on hold.
The Abraham Accords, concluded with such fanfare in the final months of the Trump administration, saw several Arab countries not only formalise their relations with Israel but also embark on unprecedented cooperation with it, across a wide range of sectors including security and intelligence. Within weeks of the signings in Washington, the head of Israel's external intelligence agency, Mossad, was given a VIP welcome in the Gulf - something unthinkable even a year ago.
Yet today governments of the signatory nations, notably the UAE and Bahrain, find themselves in a deeply uncomfortable position. Having told their populations of the coming benefits of teaming up with Israel in the fields of trade, tourism, medical research, green economics and scientific development, they now find themselves metaphorically squirming as 24-hour TV footage shows Israel's bombardment of Gaza, the threatened eviction of Palestinians from their East Jerusalem homes and the recent storming by police of that city's sacred Al-Aqsa Mosque compound.

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media captionIsraeli ground troops are massing on the border with Gaza after another night of violence
The Saudis, who came under heavy pressure from the US to jump on the normalisation bandwagon, are breathing a sigh of relief that they resisted it, perhaps fearing that something exactly like this could happen.
Jerusalem, as the third holiest site in Islam after Mecca and Madina, holds a special place in the hearts of Muslims and Arabs across the world, so the events at the Al-Aqsa mosque have touched a raw nerve for Saudis as well as others in the region. Bahrain's government has been one of several to issue statements this week reaffirming its support for the Palestinian cause.

Michael Stephens, an Associate Fellow at the London-based think-tank Royal United Services Institute, points out that the Arab promise that the Abraham Accords would give countries like the UAE some leverage over Israel to help the Palestinian cause has turned out to be hollow. Not even a plea from President Biden to calm the violence seems to be having much effect right now.
Most Arab governments in the Gulf have little love for Hamas, a violent militant group backed by Iran that has so far fired well over 1000 rockets and missiles indiscriminately at Israeli towns. But the sympathies of those countries' Arab populations lie firmly with the Palestinians. If there was some reluctance amongst them to accept the newfound friendship with Israel after so many decades of antipathy then recent events will have only deepened their scepticism.

An Etihad Airways Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft displays Israeli and Emirati flags after landing upon arrival from the United Arab Emirates (UAE) at Israel's Ben Gurion Airport on 6 April

image copyrightAFP
image captionThe violence comes weeks after Abu Dhabi's Etihad started direct passenger flights to Israel
Yet Arab state media coverage of this conflict is not quite as one-sided as it used to be in previous Arab-Israeli clashes. Saudi Arabia's Al-Arabiya TV coverage focussed on the Israeli airstrikes in Gaza but it also showed footage from Israeli towns where civilians fled for cover from Hamas's rockets and sirens wailed. Sky News Arabia, based in the UAE, also focussed on Gaza but included Israeli statements that it was targeting senior Hamas commanders. Qatar, which along with Jordan and Egypt is seeking to mediate an end to the conflict, has close ties with Hamas, something reflected in its ongoing TV coverage.
So how will this conflict affect relations between Israel and its Arab partners in the long term?
That depends in large part on how much longer it lasts and whether casualties keep rising. The Arab governments that have normalised their relations with Israel know they have an enormous amount to gain from that newfound partnership, especially in the field of cutting-edge technology. But not at the expense of fomenting domestic unrest at home. For now, they cannot afford to be seen to be close to a state that is killing Palestinians, whatever the provocations from Hamas.
"There is no way the UAE will break off the Abraham Accords," says Michael Stephens. "But relations will go into a holding pattern until events calm down".

In practice that means bilateral contacts will continue in private, behind closed doors, as they have done for years, but the days of smiling, joint ambassadorial press conferences are probably over for now.


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Ardabas34

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@Philip the Arab

I am sorry but I think I am one of the few ones here that can objectively evaluate the situation.

Right now, I can say that Hamas has been partially successful but not at the physical fighting itself.

For all the fuss and excitement from the pro Palestine side, we see a number of Israeli deaths that would occur in not more than a chain car crash. 8 deaths. 2 are actually Arab Israelis.
So tell me how is iron dome actually exposed?
 

Nilgiri

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Iron Dome has been exposed, it can be overwhelmed by 5-6 BM-21 Grad launchers firing barrages followed by GPS guided rockets targeting the radars and launchers which I know Hamas doesn't have but its likely Hezbollah does.

Exposed how? It's limitations were always known w.r.t stated and designed role to buy more time and buffer for IDF mobilisation tier next....(a buffer which did not exist prior to iron dome).

It discriminated and engaged about 30% of incoming targets (those actually headed towards Israeli inhabited area) and was successful in 90% of those it chose to engage.

If the opponent can saturate and get past the numbers from economic dissonance of what they wield versus Israel provision, simply the next tier of operation from IDF comes.....already being seen in ground op psy-ops and strike on Hamas (IDF predicted) gathered response in their tunnel network.

Long range artillery rockets are the best option that Hezb has in any future conflict to cause mass damage in my opinion. Targeting IDF airbases would be a good strategy for them I suppose, if a few hundred could hit an airbase it would be put out of actions for days.

These would engage tiers above iron dome, including david's sling....especially for extremely vital infra like military installations.

Appropriate radars would be able to discriminate the size, capabilty and likely precision of incoming projectiles that have far more investment into them than the qassem unguided barrage pipe+fertilizer+spotweld rockets (70% of which land in uninhabited areas after simple rough azimuth angle input).

Then it is matter of the interceptor having the quality and reliability and the wielder having the economics, intel and planning to counter known likeliest threats in 5 , 10 and 10+ year timeframes w.r.t numbers needed and options evolved in each tier of use.

We have to remember Israel has designed a multilayer system here and integrated it with a large intel and sensor network.

That is past what they would do pre-emptively (and the IDF-AF role in syria is quite one to study on it already) if such assets come into view in first place (for clear use) without Gaza dense urban setting to shield and hide them like the lower tier threat now in operation from Hamas brigades.
 

GoatsMilk

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@Philip the Arab

I am sorry but I think I am one of the few ones here that can objectively evaluate the situation.

Right now, I can say that Hamas has been partially successful but not at the physical fighting itself.

For all the fuss and excitement from the pro Palestine side, we see a number of Israeli deaths that would occur in not more than a chain car crash. 8 deaths. 2 are actually Arab Israelis.
So tell me how is iron dome actually exposed?

WOW only 8 deaths, are the Arabs firing their rockets into the ocean?
 

GoatsMilk

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Where does it say Atilla did that? Anyway, I assume you would want Ataturk to use Venizelos' skull as a cup too and drink from it in the league of nations.

Anyway, thats how you make people respect to your nations symbol of sovereignity. Your respect others symbols of sovereignity.

Its more important to create a sense of self respect and discipline within your own nation. Because war isnt like a street fight, its really about organisation and good organisation requires discipline.

Compare that discipline and level of self respect to the recent Azerbaijan Armenia war. Armenians sunk to the lowest levels in their actions, meanwhile the Azeris conducted the war with respect and discipline, the result was Armenia got absolutely crushed. While the Armenians had to chain their loud barking men to battle positions and their police had to drag men to the army, the Azeris basically said however many die, we must achieve victory.

Its kind of like when you see the arabs constantly throwing stones at the Isrealis, it achieves nothing and every know and again the Isrealis send bullets their way. Dont engage in futile meaningless actions. Have respect for yourself and your own dignity. Men of dignity will not flee the battlefield and they will not ignorantly endanger the lives of those around them.

Hence why i don't like this flag burning nonsense, its a low act from a desperate people. These are the kind of people when the going gets tough they will be first to flee. Hence why i always enjoyed see the greeks, armenians or pkk kurds do it to the Turkish flag, because it tells me that in war you will face a coward.
 

Philip the Arab

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@Philip the Arab

I am sorry but I think I am one of the few ones here that can objectively evaluate the situation.

Right now, I can say that Hamas has been partially successful but not at the physical fighting itself.

For all the fuss and excitement from the pro Palestine side, we see a number of Israeli deaths that would occur in not more than a chain car crash. 8 deaths. 2 are actually Arab Israelis.
So tell me how is iron dome actually exposed?
Hamas is much weaker than HZ, HZ has probably 100x the firepower Hamas has meaning they could likely inflict a lot more damage. Hamas is under an embargo from Egypt and Israel and smuggling is much harder than it is to supply Lebanon.

Iron Dome has been exposed if you can launch large barrages of BM-21 rockets without warheads you could confuse the system into intercepting the false target. You wouldn't be able to know which don't have warheads. During Protective Edge the Palestinians barely launched 50 a day, it seems they got a little smarter with the help of the Iranians but again they are just very weak.

This would require 1000s of rockets being launched, which is something HZ has the capability to do, with a second wave involving GPS guided rockets targeting the launchers and radars. If you could hit the launchers, and radars you would in theory leave the protected area defenseless for a few hours at the minimum.
 
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Nilgiri

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Hamas is much weaker than HZ, HZ has probably 100x the firepower Hamas has meaning they could likely inflict a lot more damage. Hamas is under an embargo from Egypt and Israel and smuggling is much harder than it is to supply Lebanon.

Iron Dome has been exposed if you can launch large barrages of BM-21 rockets without warheads you could confuse the system into intercepting the false target. You wouldn't be able to know which don't have warheads. During Protective Edge the Palestinians barely launched 50 a day, it seems they got a little smarter with the help of the Iranians but again they are just very weak.

This would require 1000s of rockets being launched, which is something HZ has the capability to do, with a second wave involving GPS guided rockets targeting the launchers and radars. If you could hit the launchers, and radars you would in theory leave the protected area defenseless for a few hours at the minimum.

Again it depends how Israel has factored in the Hezbollah threat vis a vis Hamas. I would think they monitor (during peacetime) and pre-empt or early-interdict lot of critical stuff (regarding these kind of launchers) lot more during wartime.

Iron dome is not really meant for "receiver from pitcher only" hezbollah full-war situation in singular fashion....especially given very small size of Israel (it is essentially a big city state).

IDF would probably mobilize lot earlier depending on the tier of threat and whatever PR/security ratio there is that is different to Hamas/Gaza.

All that stuff is known by relevant intel agencies and those network into the military strategy that we can speculate on, but it is catch 22 you wont know till it happens.

I think hezbollah anyway for next few years is busy with Syrian+lebanon domestic politics (and precariousness of relying on Iran situation in region), their response to this has been more or less muted in action past words and a few launches here and there I believe.
 

GoatsMilk

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Hamas is much weaker than HZ, HZ has probably 100x the firepower Hamas has meaning they could likely inflict a lot more damage. Hamas is under an embargo from Egypt and Israel and smuggling is much harder than it is to supply Lebanon.

Iron Dome has been exposed if you can launch large barrages of BM-21 rockets without warheads you could confuse the system into intercepting the false target. You wouldn't be able to know which don't have warheads. During Protective Edge the Palestinians barely launched 50 a day, it seems they got a little smarter with the help of the Iranians but again they are just very weak.

This would require 1000s of rockets being launched, which is something HZ has the capability to do, with a second wave involving GPS guided rockets targeting the launchers and radars. If you could hit the launchers, and radars you would in theory leave the protected area defenseless for a few hours at the minimum.

You need to be able to take out their air defences and then their air assets like their fighter jets and armed UAV's, only when you can do that do you stand any chance to change facts on the ground. Otherwise incrementally the Israelis are just going to weed you down from the air. And whoever controls the skies 99 times out of 100 wins.

So far nothing has shown me you guys have any ability to do that, nothing. Not only that, but nothing has shown me that you guys are even attempting any of this. All i'm seeing are lousy inaccurate rockets being launched and who cares where they land. So far you got 8 kills after hundreds if not thousands of rocket launches.
 

Philip the Arab

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So far nothing has shown me you guys have any ability to do that, nothing. Not only that, but nothing has shown me that you guys are even attempting any of this. All i'm seeing are lousy inaccurate rockets being launched and who cares where they land. So far you got 8 kills after hundreds if not thousands of rocket launches.
Again HZ can't be compared to Hamas at all, Hamas is much much weaker than HZ because of the embargo.


Hamas likely doesn't have any accurate rockets, whereas HZ likely has GPS/Inertial rockets from Iran in large amounts.
 

GoatsMilk

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Again HZ can't be compared to Hamas at all, Hamas is much much weaker than HZ because of the embargo.


Hamas likely doesn't have any accurate rockets, whereas HZ likely has GPS/Inertial rockets from Iran in large amounts.

That's what Hamas needs, if it can get its hands on such things it can dent the Isreali war machine. The Palestinians don't need to defeat Isreal to win, they just need to create circumstances where it makes sense for Isreal to find a settlement instead of this ambition to take the whole place.

The problem you've got is that if you can't get these things you need, then you can't win. Your just playing for time in the hopes that at some point something changes.

As for Isreal their military capabilities are only expanding. Endless finance, endless tech support form the US and Europe. Truth be told the Palestinians have everything against them. However their situation is no where near as hopeless as the Uyghur situation of China.

However looking back, Morsi losing in Egypt and Assad maintaining his throne in Syria removed an historic chance for a united Turkey, Syria, Egypt front that could have done something.
 

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Iron Dome has been exposed, it can be overwhelmed by 5-6 BM-21 Grad launchers firing barrages followed by GPS guided rockets targeting the radars and launchers which I know Hamas doesn't have but its likely Hezbollah does.

Long range artillery rockets are the best option that Hezb has in any future conflict to cause mass damage in my opinion. Targeting IDF airbases would be a good strategy for them I suppose, if a few hundred could hit an airbase it would be put out of actions for days.
Iron Dome is more effective vs long range lockets than short range. More time to react, more time to calculate trajectory. Out of barrage of 130 rockets Hamas fired at Tel Aviv in the evening of 11 May only 2 passed through (i.e. less than 2%).

When it comes to short range rockets (10-5 km) about 15% pass through Iron Dome.
 

Philip the Arab

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Iron Dome is more effective vs long range lockets than short range. More time to react, more time to calculate trajectory. Out of barrage of 130 rockets Hamas fired at Tel Aviv in the evening of 11 May only 2 passed through (i.e. less than 2%).

When it comes to short range rockets (10-5 km) about 15% pass through Iron Dome.
If the system is out of rockets how long do reloads take?

If they barrage the system with thousands and then target the launchers in theory you may achieve some effectiveness.
 

mulj

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I got called and critiqued becaues of my statements about israel, i am posting this picture for everybody who would feel in future to do the same in order to shut up in advance or pass my posts as i think that this guy had full legitimacy for characterisation of israel and he can not be acused for hate spreading.
 

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