Live Conflict Israel-Palestine War|Regional Escalations

[Baryshx]

"Atatürk's three pieces of advice to Numan Menemencioğlu: Don't mess with Russia, don't be a puppet of the West, don't meddle in Arab affairs"

 

[contricusc]

yeah be it, we need the pretext anyway.

Your theory about the need of a pretext to wipe out Israel when sometime in the future after the US is greatly diminished, a Islamic world power will be able to do it, is really silly. Do you actually think fanatic islamists don’t have a pretext already and need some more?

We’ve seen what ISIS did in Syria and Iraq, and they didn’t need any pretext to do it. What did the Yazidis do in order to be treated like that? Or all the other people, from muslims to other minorities that were all treated like slaves.

Fanatics will always find a reason to justify their killings. The nazis didn’t need any pretext to do what they did. They created their own propaganda.

Also, your assumption that after US loses global influence there will be some sort of pan-Islamic unity creating the next global power is mostly based on ISIS wishful thinking than in reality. Before the US hegemony, there was no Islamic unity, just like there was no Christian unity in Europe. Local powers fought each other with no end in sight.

When the US will no longer be able to guarantee global stability, we will be back to endless local wars between the local powers wishing to become the next empire. Even if Israel is destined to be wiped out sometime in the future by its bigger neighbors, it won’t be because of some great coalition of friendly muslim nations. It might happen as a result of endless local wars between the big regional players like Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iran.

When the US falls, it will be like after the Roman empire fell in Europe, but this time at a global scale, which means a long dark period for humanity with endless wars and no stability. People all over the world will remember the good old times of Pax Americana.

 

[Slayer]

You need to do the same. PKK is on the terror organization list of US gov and EU since the 1990s/2000s.

US cooperating with YPG in Syria is a different geopolitical game. Nothing about idolizing PKK as „heroes“ by official state institutions in the West.

Sabra and Shatilla massacres were done by Lebanese Maronite christian militia, at that time allied with Israel. IDF never actively planned, organized and participated in the massacre. This incident happened as a revenge for the Damour massacre perpetrated by PLO. All factions during Lebanese Civil War killed each other like animals, and the different Palestine factions as refugees and foreigners have blood on their hands killing Lebanese people.

That could happen easily in Türkiye as well with radicalized Syrian and other refugees …

Really!
Then check this. YPG flags in EU parliament hailed as heroes. The EU and US are all words and no action when it comes to the PKK/YPG. And Turkiye is fed up. The US wants permanent bases in the region and ISIS was the perfect excuse.

https://en.zamanalwsl.net/news/article/16445/

Active or not - IDF stood by and let the blood flow. Character/integrity/responsibility is about one's actions or lack thereof.

And now Egyptian media are reporting that Sisi warned Israel but to no avail.
Someone rung the bells but nobody paid much attention.

Egypt intelligence official says Israel ignored repeated warnings of ‘something big’

Cairo official says Israel focused on West Bank instead of Gaza; Egypt's spy chief said to warn PM of 'terrible operation,' Netanyahu denies it

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[guest12]

Funny people making so many noises about Iran's nuclear program but dont see anything wrong about Israel's already existing nuclear weapons even advocating Turkiye should never develop so our nation should always live under Israel's mercy?

Then advocating we should do something about Iran's nuclear program?!?!?
Serving as cannon fodder to make Israel undisputed superpower of Middle East?

What happens one day right wing military hawks controls Israel state decides "Lets nuke every independent muslim nation's capital just be sure" ?

Its dangerous for muslim nations make nuclear weapons but Israel's already existing ones are what exatly? doves of peace in your eyes i guess ?

You guys are piece of work.

 

[Oublious]

lol

Lets refresh what is happening and why...

let the lady speak....

 

[Lool]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1711460416356765764

 

[Zapper]

Or strategic.

How is it strategic? Given how Hamas attacked civilians in scores with clear video evidence that the world has witnessed, they are bound to loose support from most neutral countries or those which weren't vocal about it. Israelis in general are known to exact vengeance just for a few deaths of theirs. Do you think they'll stop and be open to negotiations without razing Gaza to ashes

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1711465610507341996

 

[Rodeo]

What is Natenyahu's endgame? He's willing to sacrifice the Israeli hostages, so it's clear that he is going to turn the city into rubble. But he cannot genocide 2 million people. Especially considering half them are children younger than 14.

Do you think he(Natenyahu) will offer a country money(for instance to Egypt) to host Palestinians like the EU did to Turkiye for the Syrian refugees? If not, what is his plan? Where will he stop?

 

[MaciekRS]

Do you think he(Natenyahu) will offer a country money(for instance to Egypt) to host Palestinians like the EU did to Turkiye for the Syrian refugees? If not, what is his plan? Where will he stop?

That ship has sailed 2 days ago.
I think now others has to offer something to Israel to STOP turning GAza into rubble.

 

[Rodeo]

That ship has sailed 2 days ago.
I think now others has to offer something to Israel to STOP turning GAza into rubble.

So he's going to murder 1 million children even if Hamas surrendered and dissolved? Is that it?

 

[Afif]

How is it strategic? Israelis in general are known to extract vengeance just for a few deaths of theirs. Do you think they'll stop and be open to negotiations without razing Gaza to ashes

I answered that question in previous pages, but I will summarize it for you.

Israel has been taking one small bite after another from Palestine without any consequences. Palestinians are in an existential crisis anyway. Becuase, it is evidently clear that Israel does not want two state solution.

But now Hamas has forced Israel take a big bite through a full scale war. Which won't be that much consequential for Israel militarily because of the conventional overmatch, However, politically (both internally and internationally) massive civilian casualties would be costly for Israel.

What happened in last 48 hours is too big and consequential to have a temporary end.

Either there will be full a scale bloody conflict and Hamas will perish. And the dream of Palestinian state will cease to exist. (Which would have happened anyway slowly)

Or there has to be an actual long term settlement in the end. UN, US, EU or Egypt brokered cease-fires aren't gonna work this time for either sides.

In a nuthsell, It has created a chance (no matter how small it is) for an actual long term settlement compared to the other option, which is to perish slowly but surely.

In military terms, Hamas has sieze the initiative and imposed its will on the enemy. However, will it be able to hold the initiative and exploit it is existential question for itself and the Palestinian state.

 

[Relic]

So he's going to murder 1 million children even if Hamas surrendered and dissolved? Is that it?

Never purposefully kill children, unless they're shooting at you. There are plenty of countries around the world that are growing only through immigration and would be happy to have young, reasonably healthy families of Palistinians that want a better life and are willing to move somewhere safer, work hard and add to our tax base.

Of those 1 million young people, I'd happily have my country (Canada) take 250,000 of them. We have vast territory and regions of the country that we need to populate. As long as they have no ties to extremism and are willing to integrate into our culture in the customary ways, I'd be happy to bring them here and get them out of harm's way. They're completely free to practice any religion of their choice and they'll find robust communities willing to help them get settled.

We already have a huge base of Lebanese folks that have thrived in cities such as Ottawa and Montreal and have developed robust businesses, blessed us with some of their best food and live happy, healthy, safe lives. I see no reason why the same cannot be true for Palestinians.

 

[Deliorman]

What an idea... take all Palestinians and move them to Canada where they can make their own country. Palestine 2.0 but with snow and polar bears. Lovely.

 

[Rodeo]

Never purposefully kill children, unless they're shooting at you. There are plenty of countries around the world that are growing only through immigration and would be happy to have young, reasonably healthy families of Palistinians that want a better life and are willing to move somewhere safer, work hard and add to our tax base.

Of those 1 million young people, I'd happily have my country (Canada) take 250,000 of them. We have vast territory and regions of the country that we need to populate. As long as they have no ties to extremism and are willing to integrate into our culture in the customary ways, I'd be happy to bring them here and get them out of harm's way. They're completely free to practice any religion of their choice and they'll find robust communities willing to help them get settled.

We already have a huge base of Lebanese folks that have thrived in cities such as Ottawa and Montreal and have developed robust businesses, blessed us with some of their best food and live happy, healthy, safe lives. I see no reason why the same cannot be true for Palestinians.

It was a joy to read, thanks.

 

[TheInsider]

What is Natenyahu's endgame? He's willing to sacrifice the Israeli hostages, so it's clear that he is going to turn the city into rubble. But he cannot genocide 2 million people. Especially considering half them are children younger than 14.

Do you think he(Natenyahu) will offer a country money(for instance to Egypt) to host Palestinians like the EU did to Turkiye for the Syrian refugees? If not, what is his plan? Where will he stop?

Why not? He can kill thousands and the rest of them will have no choice but to escape the onslaught. Egypt will probably accept them and the EU and maybe the US will provide financial assistance to Egypt.

 

[Relic]

What an idea... take all Palestinians and move them to Canada where they can make their own country. Palestine 2.0 but with snow and polar bears. Lovely.

There will be no Palestine in Canada. If they want to immigrate here or come as refugees and enjoy our freedoms and live free of persecution, I'm happy to have them. I want no part of their warring or any extremism, however. Come here and assimilate peacefully, or die under Israeli bombs and artillery fire. It's a fairly simple concept, IMO.

 

[Bozan]

So he's going to murder 1 million children even if Hamas surrendered and dissolved? Is that it?

He can just deport them to other areas

 

[Gary]

Your theory about the need of a pretext to wipe out Israel when sometime in the future after the US is greatly diminished, a Islamic world power will be able to do it, is really silly. Do you actually think fanatic islamists don’t have a pretext already and need some more?

The pretext is always there, in two ways you see Palestine the pretext is always there, if you're an Arab, your kin is under occupation, if it's seen form the lens of Islam it has actually become compulsory to retake it based on Islamic law alone lol considering Palestine is home to the third holiest site in Islam. When I say pretext do not think of it as mere rhetoric, it's more than that.

We’ve seen what ISIS did in Syria and Iraq, and they didn’t need any pretext to do it. What did the Yazidis do in order to be treated like that? Or all the other people, from muslims to other minorities that were all treated like slaves.

Fanatics will always find a reason to justify their killings. The nazis didn’t need any pretext to do what they did. They created their own propaganda.

You know back in 1933, when Hitler came to power the idea of a Jewish extermination would have probably been shared by Hitler himself and maybe some really close extremists confidants, like Himmler, Goebbels, and Goering. In fact, what I'm going to write has some partial answers on why ISIS fails as a movement with their killings.

Again back to the Nazis and their "pretext". For Hitler he needs no pretext, he's after all Hitler, what he needs in his position as head of state of the German Reich is to convince not him, but people like Paul, who work odd jobs at the coal mine in Ruhr.

to die for him and understand why his hatred should be shared by the rest of Germany's 80 Million strong citizens, Paul doesn't understand the basic concept of power, the concept of the state, or even the Raison d'etre of the state, he just wants to live and feed his family. This is bad, because for what Hitler is planning to do, he needed a pretext, a legitimacy on why people needed to accept what he was going to do.

So he started this campaign with the magic hands of Goebbels with the so-called " back-stab and betrayal" in WW1. From podium to cartoons and even in the airwave (Radio was made so cheap during Goebbell's tenure at Reichs Propagandaministerium to spread their propaganda)

Real or imaginary it worked and if the Western history books are to be believed then this resulted in up to 6 million German Jews killed and no one bats an eye.

This is the pretext I'm talking about. In a more specific way.

Now put yourself in a hypothetical Arab/Mid-East superstate somewhere around a century or more/less after this writing, the U.S empire is long gone, the Pax Americana has crumbled, maybe after a devastating war with China which resulted in a US retreat from the global stage akin to how all empires retreat in the past, back to its small snail shells.

You are a sultan/emir of this state, and after a long struggle in the Middle East and a lot of bloodbaths to secure control from competing powers and subjugate rival powers, you find yourself in control of an estimated 500 Million people. You want to continuously expand and in by doing so also cement your legacy not only now but in the future.

Remember the Americans? the one that used to send its carrier fleet to control the region so that the Western-made borders in the Middle East stay that way? Well they're now gone. And you look at the map, you notice a small strip near Jordan and Lebanon not yet within your realms.Oh, it is Israel, the untouchables of yester-century, but now vulnerable and you now have all the power to subjugate this land., but you know that these people are known for their military skills like in 1967, which is hundreds of years ago and you have a tired population after years of war, how do you convince the populace for another costly campaign?

Isn't there any better stimulus other than the renewed reminder of what these vulnerable people did to your people and your kin back when they were on top of the world?

If Goebbels oratory, cartoons, and radio sound could lead to the Holocaust, how effective would you think this video from last century (by that time)? Shot in full HD and in full detail.

This is just a peek into what would come.


So this is why there are actually two types of happy people in this forum The ones who cheered for the destruction of Gaza, and me who cheered knowing the backblow would be so severe, that Hitler would've rolled in his grave knowing his achievement will be undone.

Again ISIS knows this, tried and FAILED big time, not because they failed to grasp the power of the visual media, but its just that during their attempt whatever propaganda they tried, the Americans would retaliate with their own 100000x the power and they have censors working 24/7. So ISIS, despite their best attempt to sell their view, failed to convince the common Muslim to go fight on its side.

Of course their failure in propaganda is just one of many factors that buried their state, but in my scenario, you no longer have the US and its equally powerful propaganda machine to counter this because this state will be so strong and all-encompassing in the propaganda department as well and the US are on the retreat.

Also, your assumption that after US loses global influence there will be some sort of pan-Islamic unity creating the next global power is mostly based on ISIS wishful thinking than in reality. Before the US hegemony, there was no Islamic unity, just like there was no Christian unity in Europe. Local powers fought each other with no end in sight.

There will be no Pan-Islamic/Arabic unity by willingness, but rather by force. It's not like the grandsons of Bin Zayed will go to Cairo, meet the local president, and then after a 5 minute talks, decide that they want to create an ummah from their countries.

This is what I wrote in post #1870

In the end without the Americans policing everything, you will see some chad move in the Middle-East, like Iraq invading Kuwait, but this time there will be no Desert Storm. There's even a possibility of a renewal in historic rivalry like Turko-Egyptian, Saudi-Iranina, Saudi-Turkish etc.

You know it's not going to be smooth, there will be a lot of dead in this struggle, but that's done within the scope of an empire in the making, some people don't understand this because the region they came from doesn't have the same experience, but the Middle East are the people of kingdoms and great empires, from Babylon, Sumerians, Akkadians, Persians, Phoenicians, Egypt, the Caliphate etc. These people know the concept of power and what to do to achieve it

When the US will no longer be able to guarantee global stability, we will be back to endless local wars between the local powers wishing to become the next empire. Even if Israel is destined to be wiped out sometime in the future by its bigger neighbors, it won’t be because of some great coalition of friendly muslim nations. It might happen as a result of endless local wars between the big regional players like Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Bingo read post above

When the US falls, it will be like after the Roman empire fell in Europe, but this time at a global scale, which means a long dark period for humanity with endless wars and no stability. People all over the world will remember the good old times of Pax Americana.

Maybe...for you and peoples who benefit like Israel.

 

[Oublious]

What an idea... take all Palestinians and move them to Canada where they can make their own country. Palestine 2.0 but with snow and polar bears. Lovely.

Yeah did you believe it?

This is 1 of the biggest bs post i ever have read it. If Zionists try to deport Palestines they should send them to Europe, they are the cause of this mess. They are unconditionally supporting israel they should clean ther shit...

 

[dBSPL]

"Atatürk's three pieces of advice to Numan Menemencioğlu: Don't mess with Russia, don't be a puppet of the West, don't meddle in Arab affairs"

Until the Gazi Atatürk passed away, British intelligence lived in dreadful fear of Atatürk's activities in Syria and Iraq. In recent years, many declassified intelligence documents have also come to light. They tried to follow our activities in those countries step by step. Apart from that, he had a special interest in the Iraq issue. Our political moves in Syria are also the stuff of textbooks.

So in short, I don't really believe in the truth of this sentence.