TR Land Vehicle Programs

[Abdelaziz]

The dumbest thing i have heard today ... even if the contract was given to otokar ..they cannot produce an engine or get it from abroad .. bmc started an engine and transmission R&D ..reached Prototyp and testing phase ... They did a great breakthrough that otokar cant do .. otokar uses a lot of imported subsystems ..and this go against the ssb policy

What critical tech or components does otokar produce ? They have handsome designs.. ok ..but The gov prefers the locality rate and firms that share in nationalization efforts .. in near future bmc will be a corps that produce ~100% local systems including the power group and drive train ...will otokar have chance against them

 

[Nutuk]

If BMC had half the engineering experience of Otokar she'd put another engine on it by now.

Face it they delivered nor the Altay nor the Leopard upgrades. Any other company would have been kicked by now but not BMC, food for thought!

 

[Anmdt]

If BMC had half the engineering experience of Otokar she'd put another engine on it by now.

They actually have some MTU engines in storage,it was told for a few times the production would start with the spare engines procured for prototypes but then they have probably failed to install it too.
Because they did only receive Technical packages from SSB,not the production packages which includes production details and plans. Otokar was obliged to share technical documents with SSB as a part of prototype production program but was not for production packages.
BMC might have tried several times to pay for the technical packages but Otokar had given none, there might have been some deal recently which Koc might be granted with some projects in return of sharing production plans with BMC.

The only proof of how they lack production plans is they couldn't make an actual turret for LeoTay but instead made a make-up on another turret with welds and joints.

 

[Abdelaziz]

If BMC had half the engineering experience of Otokar she'd put another engine on it by now.

Face it they delivered nor the Altay nor the Leopard upgrades. Any other company would have been kicked by now but not BMC, food for thought!

Neither otokar nor bmc were able to provide a solution for the engine till now ... Bmc did the best it could be .. there is a very limited list of engines that suite for altay in the world.. unfortunately all the producers apply embargos excepts south korea which its engine has recently matured and still without transmission... And embargos are not only on engines ..but on armours too ... Otokar's altay prototyp used french armours and smoke systems ..i expect that bmc will use Roketsan armours +(milluxoy steel ?) +Nural smoke system .. in conclusion ..the problems are bigger than both corps ..and bmc did the best it could be

 

[Philips]

Neither otokar nor bmc were able to provide a solution for the engine till now ... Bmc did the best it could be .. there is a very limited list of engines that suite for altay in the world.. unfortunately all the producers apply embargos excepts south korea which its engine has recently matured and still without transmission... And embargos are not only on engines ..but on armours too ... Otokar's altay prototyp used french armours and smoke systems ..i expect that bmc will use Roketsan armours +(milluxoy steel ?) +Nural smoke system .. in conclusion ..the problems are bigger than both corps ..and bmc did the best it could be

There is no reason to take their opinions seriously. In Turkey they have a term for this kind of mentality: concrete head mentality. No matter how much you explain the realities to them, they won't accept it. Let them wallow in their own resentment.

 

[Combat-Master]

As much as I like FNSS, they are behind Otokar‘s Tulpar. Starting from the design (currently one) to protection level. Despite from the FNSS 20t, they all look like stretched and face lifted M-114, to be honest. Not to mention that Otokar has also mass production capabilities.

But one of the important point is, what we can gain from a new vehicle in a technology manner (know how). Of course, sometimes it is better to update/upgrade a vehicle than to make a new one.

They aren't behind anything, FNSS is a superior company when compared to Otokar in tracked armoured vehicles. If FNSS saw an opportunity to develop a land-locked tracked vehicle they would put together a vehicle more Turkish then Otokar and with better specs/quality. FNSS have been doing it for decades they are a dedicated military vehicles producer.

FNSS won two tracked vehicle tenders against Otokar.

Kaplan 10 > Tulpar S
ZAHA > Otokar's Equivalent (can't remember name off the top of my head)

Otokar does not have tracked vehicle production capabilities, it is why they asked SSM at time to give them a couple years to set up production capabilities for Altay tender.

 

[Combat-Master]

That’s indeed mysterious.

It's something they've been doing for a while, I understand they have foreign partners that provide chassis for them. But they got to get a move on with the other Turkish vehicle manufacturers in sourcing locally, Like FNSS, BMC and Tumosan are doing. If not they are going to be locked off into foreign markets, which is not a bad thing.

 

[Tornadoss]

There is no reason to take their opinions seriously. In Turkey they have a term for this kind of mentality: concrete head mentality. No matter how much you explain the realities to them, they won't accept it. Let them wallow in their own resentment.

And enlighten us. Lets not talk about altay project because it's delaying because of engine and transmission. What is your excuse for Leo upgrade? They still couldn't come up with a proper solution.

 

[Abdelaziz]

And enlighten us. Lets not talk about altay project because it's delaying because of engine and transmission. What is your excuse for Leo upgrade? They still couldn't come up with a proper solution.

The armours package

 

[Abdelaziz]

And enlighten us. Lets not talk about altay project because it's delaying because of engine and transmission. What is your excuse for Leo upgrade? They still couldn't come up with a proper solution.

Roketsan finished the R&D of its armours solution recently ... So we can expect that it will be used in the project .. in the past when the contract was made it was supposed to be imported

 

[Tornadoss]

The armours package

Last time I checked, BMC was demonstrating their solution for it with an Altayish turret, rather than Roketsan armor package. And lets say armor package from Roketsan, electronics from Aselsan, there is no added value from BMC for this upgrade. Not sure why they are included there.

Btw, people are talking as if bmc chose to go with indigenous engine and transmission. No, they forced to do it. If there was no embargo on engine and transmission. It would be mtu engine and renk transmission. They would not invest in the engine.

 

[what]

It has to do with Koc Holding. They are globohomo. They prefer partnerships with large companies rather being ambitious and create their own products. They are the biggest industrial conglomerate, they have power, capabilities. Otosan is the company in Turkey with most capability to develop engines. I mean tank 1500hp powerpack is something else but they could had at least developed smaller engines.

They do, look up Ecotorq. But also remember that Ford Otosan is a JV and that Ford Motor Company has an equal vote in everything.

 

[Stuka]

Katmerciler Announces 2 Vehicles for IDEF 21


@Combat-Master
Perhaps you could brighten it up

 

[Test7]

FNSS- Pars 6X6

 

[Stuka]

In order to provide high mobility to the 107 mm MLRA Weapon System, 1 MLRA-mounted Shooter Vehicle was supplied to the unit for trial purposes. With the said system, it is aimed to provide flexibility and speed in transfer or relocation activities.

 

[Test7]

 

[Abdelaziz]

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Is this with local engine ?

 

[Tornadoss]

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I know this is for okk but would be better if we have higher caliber gun on it. Btw, is that 40 mm granade launcher at the back?

 

[Huelague]

View attachment 24134

Katmerciler Announces 2 Vehicles for IDEF 21


@Combat-Master
Perhaps you could brighten it up

3 military vehicle manufacturers are enough. FNSS, Otokar and BMC should share the whole market by purchasing the little manufacturer like Tumosan or Katmeciler. If they really want to grow up fast, they have to invest and expand.

 

[Test7]

Is this with local engine ?

Not yet. It will use indigenous engine 2 years later