TR Land Vehicle Programs

[Test7]

View attachment 24224 Do you think thats cables and weak bolts will withstand in harsh wartime ?

The qualification tests of the vehicle are still ongoing...

 

[Combat-Master]

They have a Euro 6 class engine, the military vehicle engine remains child's play next to it. Using the same infrastructure, they can easily build a military vehicle engine in euro 3-4 standard.

If they dropped in a bunch of aftertreatment systems too, they would reach euro 6 as well, it's not anything special.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

If they dropped in a bunch of aftertreatment systems too, they would reach euro 6 as well, it's not anything special.
View attachment 24311

The purification system is just one part of it. For this aftertreatment system to work, you need to leave as little harmful gas as possible, which is related to the initial design of the engine. You cannot add a superstructure to the Euro 4 engine and convert it to Euro 6, you only make it cleaner.

 

[Ecderha]

They have a Euro 6 class engine, the military vehicle engine remains child's play next to it. Using the same infrastructure, they can easily build a military vehicle engine in euro 3-4 standard.

Thanks for you answer, but you misunderstand the question. I am not talking about " Tricks" how you can convert engine to be qualified as -> Euro6, Euro 3-4 etc

I am talking about Military Engine ( higher HP for example between 500 -1500 HP) developed or in development from Otosan or partnars Ford/Otosan



Please lets leave speculation aside I mea like "they can do it beacuse that or this" it is "bla bla" thingy.



So do I understood it right? there is not such engine from Ford/Otosan?

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Thanks for you answer, but you misunderstand the question. I am not talking about " Tricks" how you can convert engine to be qualified as -> Euro6, Euro 3-4 etc

I am talking about Military Engine ( higher HP for example between 500 -1500 HP) developed or in development from Otosan or partnars Ford/Otosan



Please lets leave speculation aside I mea like "they can do it beacuse that or this" it is "bla bla" thingy.



So do I understood it right? there is not such engine from Ford/Otosan?

Otosan doesn't have any engine that can be used for military vehicles.

 

[Combat-Master]

The purification system is just one part of it. For this aftertreatment system to work, you need to leave as little harmful gas as possible, which is related to the initial design of the engine. You cannot add a superstructure to the Euro 4 engine and convert it to Euro 6, you only make it cleaner.

It is the biggest part of it, that's why I posted that image look at all the aftertreatment processes the exhaust goes through to make it Euro compliant.

On BMC and Tumosan engines I did not see EGR, DPF (can't really see this, but doubt a military vehicle would have a DPF) and an SCR (biggest selling point for Ford-Otosan). These could all be added to BMC and Tumosan engines and reach compliance to Euro emissions standard. However, these extra systems to control emissions are failure points and unnecessary in military vehicles.

 

[Hexciter]

They have a Euro 6 class engine, the military vehicle engine remains child's play next to it. Using the same infrastructure, they can easily build a military vehicle engine in euro 3-4 standard.

If IP rights of that engine belongs to Ford, you can not.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

If IP rights of that engine belongs to Ford, you can not.

You don't know anything. Ford Otosan is a Turkish company and the engine belongs to this company.

 

[Abdelaziz]

Koç owns only 41 % of it ..with also 41% for ford ... And 18% public shares

You don't know anything. Ford Otosan is a Turkish company and the engine belongs to this company.

 

[kenny]

You don't know anything. Ford Otosan is a Turkish company and the engine belongs to this company.

Koç owns only 41 % of it ..with also 41% for ford ... And 18% public shares

Ford OTOSAN can develop and produce engines and this is a Turkish engine. As an example, the F-MAX Truck, designed and manufactured by Ford OTOSAN in 2018, whose engine was completely domestic in design and production, received the "International Truck of the Year Award". It belongs entirely to Turkey.

 

[Abdelaziz]

Koç owns only 41 % of it ..with also 41%

You don't know anything. Ford Otosan is a Turkish company and the engine belongs to this company.

Ford OTOSAN can develop and produce engines and this is a Turkish engine. As an example, the F-MAX Truck, designed and manufactured by Ford OTOSAN in 2018, whose engine was completely domestic in design and production, received the "International Truck of the Year Award". It belongs entirely to Turkey.

No ... Its developed in turkey ..that is ok ..but its ip rights does not belongs koç ... And we could expect that their is some foreign critical parts .. so they cant use it in military field for fear of embargos

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Koç owns only 41 % of it ..with also 41%



No ... Its developed in turkey ..that is ok ..but its ip rights does not belongs koç ... And we could expect that their is some foreign critical parts .. so they cant use it in military field for fear of embargos

All of the product belongs to Ford Otosan with all its rights. Only 41% of Ford Otosan belongs to Ford Global, the rest is affiliated with Koç and Turkish Stock Exchanges, not foreigners, so everything that belongs to this company is a concern of the Republic of Turkey, there is no such thing as IP sharing.

 

[Ecderha]

All of the product belongs to Ford Otosan with all its rights. Only 41% of Ford Otosan belongs to Ford Global, the rest is affiliated with Koç and Turkish Stock Exchanges, not foreigners, so everything that belongs to this company is a concern of the Republic of Turkey, there is no such thing as IP sharing.

To make it clear for me and may be for other ppl. So words like "Belongs to Ford Otosan with all its rights". It is OK to the point that !!!!

Just example Ford Otosan start to producing the engine -> "Mechanical part can be build in the factory of Ford/Otosan" till this moment everting is OK with above.



But Then on Engine we know that Electroincs need to be placed
Like PCB ( Printed Circuit Board usually it is placed inside Black plastic boxes with connectors ) with ECU on it and inside ECU there is flashed/dowloaded Software "SW" all of that for control of the Engine. This part is either Bosch or Simense
Just asking do we know that Ford/Otosan have team for
1. CODE/Write the Software part
2. Flashing/Load this to own CPU/ Micro contoller
3. On own Printed Circuit Board which put on black boxes as final product

All above are MANDATORY components separated in 3 diffrent products, like for 1 Engine control 2 for Fuel system control 3 for BCU body control unit

And the last thing you must have also Transmission for that you need 1 more ECU for it

All above mean you have finished Product which you can put on vehicle or sell knowing that it will work

So if Otosan buy above ECU+SW+ PCB then I can say that "on Turkiye can be apply Embargo" and We all know that WEST will use this option IF this engine is placed on MILITARY vehicle.


So this engine can be used only on Labs with mechanical cables

 

[Fuzuli NL]

View attachment 24134

Katmerciler Announces 2 Vehicles for IDEF 21


@Combat-Master
Perhaps you could brighten it up

I gave it a shot!

 

[TheInsider]

%49.9 of the BMC is owned by Qatar does that make BMC a foreign company?

Otokar(it isn't an engine producer) or Otosan(is a civilian company that doesn't want to involve in military matters for the fucking OBVIOUS reasons) doesn't produce military engines because it is not their area of expertise. Does MTU produce tanks or does KMW produce power packs? You cant produce everything on your own if you try you will fail in some. It takes huge money, time, and effort to become world-leading in different areas of expertise. It is doable(but still extremely difficult) over a few decades. That is why you won't see Aselsan class holdings popping left and right.

BTW BMC engines use a large number of foreign subsystems. It is the right way to do it or you will end up with a failed product. If you try to develop a fuel injector yourself rather than buying it from the Bosch factory in Bursa you will end up probably with a highly overpriced worse injector which will translate into an expensive engine with worse performance compared to its competition.

 

[Huelague]

I gave it a shot!

Do be honest , we don’t need more ordinary vehicles like this.

 

[Sinan]

Is it there any Ford/Otosan/Otokar engine running on Otokar Military vehicle?
or is it there any development of Ford/Otosan/Otokar engine for Military?

My point is, they have experience with engines. Both in design and production. But, don't expect anything from Koç group on defence with the current regime.

I mean government took Altay project from them. Took milgem production from them. On land vehicles government favored BMC for the reason everybody here know. So, don't expect them to invest in to defence industry.

 

[TheInsider]

Otosan(is a civilian company that doesn't want to involve in military matters for the fucking OBVIOUS reasons)

I want to explain this. Tümosan is a civilian company and has been developing military engines for some time. After Tumosan got into the military business it is embargoed by multiple foreign companies which deliver some of the components so Tumosan split up found a new company that develops military engines. If Otosan gets into the military engine business it will be embargoed and it will risk losing the civilian revenues. It might even lose its partner Ford which means losing billions worth of sales around the world in markets where Ford is strong.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

Do be honest , we don’t need more ordinary vehicles like this.

Turkey is a weapon exporting country.
Having a wide range of products is nothing to complain about.

 

[Sinan]

I want to explain this. Tümosan is a civilian company and has been developing military engines for some time. After Tumosan got into the military business it is embargoed by multiple foreign companies which deliver some of the components so Tumosan split up found a new company that develops military engines. If Otosan gets into the military engine business it will be embargoed and it will risk losing the civilian revenues. It might even lose its partner Ford which means losing billions worth of sales around the world in markets where Ford is strong.

Oh, i didn't know they got embargoed. All, i knew that AVL of Austria withdrew from the project (JV) when our relations soured with them.

Care to explain (with source) ?