TR Land Vehicle Programs

[boredaf]

One FNSS Alpha per day to keep sadness away.

Special thanks to @AlterUnd for calling me upon hearing the confirmation.

FNSS - FNSS HAS BEEN AWARDED WITH THE TURKISH LAND FORCES (TLF) NEW GENERATION ARMOURED VEHICLES PROGRAM FOR THE SERIAL PRODUCTION OF PARS ALPHA 8x8 & 6x6 VARIANTS

www.fnss.com.tr

Is this real life? What next? Altay actually going into serial production?

So, we are likely to get this at first:

And probably a version of this with recovery equipment instead of mine clearing:

Here is to hoping we'll also get 120mm dual barrel mortar version in the future

And 90/105/120mm fire support version

 

[Khagan1923]

Is this real life? What next? Altay actually going into serial production?

So, we are likely to get this at first:

And probably a version of this with recovery equipment instead of mine clearing:

Here is to hoping we'll also get 120mm dual barrel mortar version in the future

And 90/105/120mm fire support version

The total number of vehicles for this initial order will be 25 vehicles. TLF is planning to acquire over 2000 vehicles with additional orders and number of PARS ALPHA vehicles are expected to expand over time.

Really interested what crumb they gave BMC. Gonna guess Ambulance and maybe Artillery version?

 

[Anmdt]

This is the result of that tender we were all waiting for, right?
And some experts here were saying, that they are waiting for BMC Altuğ to be ready. SMH

And still looks like we were true, some of the variants will be produced by BMC and they truly delayed the process for Altuğ to be ready and perform "adequately" on paper.

FNSS secured three variants, totaling 25 units in first batch. Anti-Armour squad, Armored recovery and Command and Control. There are other variants too. It is possible that BMC secures more than 25 for initial batch.

What's left to BMC is artillery fire support, APC and tracked variants.

 

[boredaf]

What's left to BMC is artillery fire support, APC and tracked variants.

If they get those variants though, FNSS might still get them as well.

 

[Khagan1923]

Anti-Armour:

Recovery:

Command and Control:

No 30mm or 35mm Turret version included in the first batch...

 

[Fairon]

And still looks like we were true, some of the variants will be produced by BMC and they truly delayed the process for Altuğ to be ready and perform "adequately" on paper.

FNSS secured three variants, totaling 25 units in first batch. Anti-Armour squad, Armored recovery and Command and Control. There are other variants too. It is possible that BMC secures more than 25 for initial batch.

What's left to BMC is artillery fire support, APC and tracked variants.

So can we consider main piece of the pie has been given to BMC, considering the APC variant is the variant that will be most produced?

Brilliant


Also did BMC reveal the tracked vehicle yet?

If they get those variants though, FNSS might still get them as well.

Hopefully.


--

Checking the BMC website, they secured the order of 29 8X8 Altug with 35mm turret.

So at this point I guess the final decision has not been made and army decided to get a feedback from the field before final decision. Hopefully Pars Alpha with 35mm turret also will be produced and given to the army for field tests.

 

[Khagan1923]

Checking the BMC website, they secured the order of 29 8X8 Altug with 35mm turret.

So at this point I guess the final decision has not been made and army decided to get a feedback from the field before final decision. Hopefully Pars Alpha with 35mm turret also will be produced and given to the army for field tests.

Can you post the link I was not able to find anything on their website?

Would love to know how many countries operate two types of 8x8 and 6x6.

 

[Strong AI]

And still looks like we were true, some of the variants will be produced by BMC and they truly delayed the process for Altuğ to be ready and perform "adequately" on paper.

I am not writing this to defend one side or to start a discussion.
But with that logic we could say, that they actually waited for FNSS Alpha to be ready, because it was revealed last year whereas BMC Altuğ was revealed in 2021.
See, it doesn't make sense to think negative, let us all think positive.

 

[Sanchez]

Giving support variants to Alpha, while giving the mainstay IFV variant to Altuğ must be a sick joke. BMC has literally no experience in IFVs and Altuğ is yet to prove itself in the export market. Vehicles have been in tests for more than 2-3 years now. Awarding this low number of vehicles for more intensive tests in real world conditions is very much interesting.

 

[Fairon]

Can you post the link I was not able to find anything on their website?

Would love to know how many countries operate two types of 8x8 and 6x6.

BMC

BMC, sektörel değişimleri yakından takip ederek erişilebilir, sağlam, güvenilir ve çevre dostu araçlar üretmeye devam ediyor.

www.bmc.com.tr

Well we are in a different position so I am not actually bothered with operating 2 types of the same vehicle. (I would be more happy replacing BMC with Otokar though)

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1893944782788890871

Says NG signed.

 

[Anmdt]

I am not writing this to defend one side or to start a discussion.
But with that logic we could say, that they actually waited for FNSS Alpha to be ready, because it was revealed last year whereas BMC Altuğ was revealed in 2021.
See, it doesn't make sense to think negative, let us all think positive.

Too optimistic in my opinion, especially when we are involved with a company that has no factory for IFV, nor produced one ever and assuming Altuğ was based another foreign design (much likely) and Altuğ was ready for show, not action in 2021. FNSS on the other hand first joined with meanline Pars and since it was delayed, they got into work and joined with Pars NG.

 

[Khagan1923]

BMC

BMC, sektörel değişimleri yakından takip ederek erişilebilir, sağlam, güvenilir ve çevre dostu araçlar üretmeye devam ediyor.

www.bmc.com.tr

Well we are in a different position so I am not actually bothered with operating 2 types of the same vehicle. (I would be more happy replacing BMC with Otokar though)

Interestingly in their announcement there is no mention of further orders meanwhile FNSS announced that more orders will follow for Pars Alpha.

The total number of vehicles for this initial order will be 25 vehicles. TLF is planning to acquire over 2000 vehicles with additional orders and number of PARS ALPHA vehicles are expected to expand over time.

This I have found on savunmasanayi's website, don't know how much truth there is to it though.

Within the scope of the YNA Project, FNSS will deliver a total of 25 vehicles in 35mm Turret Armoured Combat Vehicle, Armoured Anti-Tank Vehicle, SARP Turret Armoured Vehicle and Armoured Rescue Vehicle configurations.

Acc. to Savunmasanayi website FNSS will also deliver 35mm turret equipped vehicles including to the other three already mentioned by FNSS itself.

BMC will deliver a total of 29 vehicles with 35mm turrets as part of the YNA Project.

And BMC will too deliver vehicles with 35mm turrets.


Looks like FNSS will get the majority of Variants, the article also mentions that they want to open the path for export for BMC's Altug.

Gonna guess they are giving an crumb to BMC to have their vehicle be "battle-tested" so they can advertise it to other countries and increase their chances to actually land a deal.

 

[Anmdt]

Giving support variants to Alpha, while giving the mainstay IFV variant to Altuğ must be a sick joke. BMC has literally no experience in IFVs and Altuğ is yet to prove itself in the export market. Vehicles have been in tests for more than 2-3 years now. Awarding this low number of vehicles for more intensive tests in real world conditions is very much interesting.

Ah yes that explains it all, IFV, AFV, APC whatever they call is awarded to BMC. Most likely the tracked version is being on hold since they are not ready for designing or making one.

 

[begturan]

BMC is a company with very new experience in armored vehicles, while Nurol Otokar and FNSS have much more deep-rooted experience. In this case, it is a shame that they waited for BMC and gave them the tender. Yes, it is logical for BMC to develop TTZA while waiting for the domestic power pack, but no matter what, orders should have been given according to the level of these companies entering the tender and meeting the needs.

The lion's share of APC, ACV version should definitely be given to FNSS. Otherwise, this is a disservice to our national defense industry.

 

[Anmdt]

Interestingly in their announcement there is no mention of further orders meanwhile FNSS announced that more orders will follow for Pars Alpha.




This I have found on savunmasanayi's website, don't know how much truth there is to it though.



Acc. to Savunmasanayi website FNSS will also deliver 35mm turret equipped vehicles including to the other three already mentioned by FNSS itself.



And BMC will too deliver vehicles with 35mm turrets.


Looks like FNSS will get the majority of Variants, the article also mentions that they want to open the path for export for BMC's Altug.

Gonna guess they are giving an crumb to BMC to have their vehicle be "battle-tested" so they can advertise it to other countries and increase their chances to actually land a deal.

Majority of variants is pain in the ass situation, having production line different variants and not unifying logistics of factory of production line, on the other hand BMC gets creme de la creme single kind orders. This always has been such, FNSS won the projects that require customization, itsy bitsy few units in different configurations based on the same design.

 

[Khagan1923]

Majority of variants is pain in the ass situation, having production line different variants and not unifying logistics of factory of production line, on the other hand BMC gets creme de la creme single kind orders. This always has been such, FNSS won the projects that require customization, itsy bitsy few units in different configurations based on the same design.

I honestly don't know. We already know from credible sources that the current owner, Tosyali, of BMC never wanted it and was forced to take it over and is trying to get rid of it even right now. We know it is bleeding money and personell. The article mentions start of production as 2027.

It is clear that the clear-cut winner of the tender is Pars Alpha, wouldn't even suprise me if Altug make it to 2nd place.

I think we aren't gonna see a follow-up order for Altug in the future, another theory might be that Korhan or SARP 100/35mm with its new name, has not yet been integrated onto Pars Alpha and to bridge the gap they ordered Altug. This way BMC can advertise Altug as TLF operated, "battle-tested" and they get their crumb of the money to stop a bit of the bleeding.

Let's see like I said I would be very surpised to see follow-up orders for Altug after the first batch, they can also gift the 29 vehicles to a "friendly" country and announce them as exports like they loved to do with Kirpi.

I can't imagine TLF being excited to operate two different vehicles.

Also there is a good possibility BMC will delay and delay and delay production on these vehicles. Wouldn't suprise me the least.

 

[Strong AI]

Majority of variants is pain in the ass situation, having production line different variants and not unifying logistics of factory of production line

What do you mean, isn't Alpha modular?
Won't only one module differ for each variant?

 

[Khagan1923]

What do you mean, isn't Alpha modular?
Won't only one module differ for each variant?

Pretty sure it isn't modular, we all thought it was when it first leaked due to the similarity with Boxer but sadly it isn't.

 

[Sanchez]

Pretty sure it isn't modular, we all thought it was when it first leaked due to the similarity with Boxer but sadly it isn't.

"Modularity" is a buzzword. Alpha won't have mission modules that can be loaded and removed like on the Boxer, and this is a good thing. Boxer's mission modules only make sense for tiny armies that can't operate more than 50 vehicles at a time. It's a waste of time and manpower.