TR Land Vehicle Programs

[Combat-Master]

Aselsan could provide that.

One wonders why Otokar always goes with foreign sub-systems.

 

[Anmdt]

One wonders why Otokar always goes with foreign sub-systems.

Because they aim export market i presume, and their customer chose those? They wouldn't have much chance if they were forced to use Turkish subsystems at greater extends. i am sure in tenders conducted by SSB, this is done as such.

To be honest i don't like neither of those IFVs as long as they don't incorporate the Korhan turret.

 

[Combat-Master]

Because they aim export market i presume, and their customer chose those? They wouldn't have much chance if they were forced to use Turkish subsystems at greater extends. i am sure in tenders conducted by SSB, this is done as such.

To be honest i don't like neither of those IFVs as long as they don't incorporate the Korhan turret.

Turkey is busy fighting an urban war with PKK, Otokar showcases an Urban Warfare Modified Altay with foreign sensors and electronic warfare kit in Turkish SE camo-paint.. How did they think that was going to work out for them ?

 

[Turko]

Of course Tulpar would come up on top on paper, however like I said, it is not ground breaking. ZMA modernisation package includes electronic package that even Tulpar is not kitted out with, nor would a foreign supplier provide for Otokar.

If they need a new modern IFV or a dedicated Light Tank the army would go with traditional tracked vehicle provider FNSS - they have the facilities to produce on mass and a tracked record of providing excellent service.

Kaplan series of Tracked Vehicles

Light Tank
View attachment 23872

--All Amphibious--

30ton IFV
View attachment 23873

20ton IFV
View attachment 23874

10ton IFV "ANTI-TANK platform "
View attachment 23875

Amphibious is secret word. Although i adore Tulpar, Being Amphibious FNSS's 30 ton IFV's is cutting across.

 

[Spook]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1406942956171452419

AUMARK S

www.foton-global.com

Otokar Atlas - Kamyon | Otokar

Hem sürüş konforunuz hem de güvenliğiniz için birçok özelliği standart olarak sunan Atlas hakkinda detaylı inceleme yapmak için web sitemizi ziyaret edin.

commercial.otokar.com.tr

I didn't know Foton was a Chinese brand so I thought it was Otokar's product name lol

 

[Nutuk]

?? Is Otokar selling a Chinese truck as her own ?

 

[what]

?? Is Otokar selling a Chinese truck as her own ?

Otokar is building these in Licence production or distributor in the Turkish market. Ford Otosan is part of the same group, so Koc is filling some gaps in their line-ups with these smaller trucks.

 

[Huelague]

Yes I know better!
BMC got free piece of land in Karasu to build her factory, where is it?

They got huge incentives and also the Leopard 2 modernization at the same time that Aselsan got the M60T modernization. Aselsan delivered all the modernized tanks, how many did BMC deliver?


Usually if a company wins a tender (even there we have big question marks on the tank serial production tender), a tender is taken away if that company for whatever reason can't deliver (happened to Tumosan). Why is the tank tender still with BMC, do they do excellent work that I can't see?

As much as I want Otokar to produce the tank, we must be honest and fair here. Even if Otokar has won the tender. Which progress could it has made? Even with a factory, you will never start a serial production if it is not clear, that you will ever get an engine for such vehicles. In this correlation, even Otokar would not start the serial production.

Just speculation, but with Otokar as the winner , they would have had a better chance to get the engine, than the nepotism buddy of Erdogan called Ethem Sancak.

 

[Huelague]

They are well protected with "engines are not developed so we can not continue the project"
However, they did also fail Leopard modernization which they didn't need to wait for anything but it is spoken a little.

The armour package came from Germany too. But they don’t want to deliver to Erdogan’s clique.

 

[Spook]

As much as I want Otokar to produce the tank, we must be honest and fair here. Even if Otokar has won the tender. Which progress could it has made? Even with a factory, you will never start a serial production if it is not clear, that you ever get an engine for such vehicles. In this correlation, even Otokar would not start the serial production.

Just speculation, but with Otokar as the winner , they would have had a better chance to get the engine, than the nepotism buddy of Erdogan called Ethem Sancak.

They have much better R&D capabilities. They could had even further improved the tank, turret, develop different variants while waiting for engine development.

 

[Huelague]

Of course Tulpar would come up on top on paper, however like I said, it is not ground breaking. ZMA modernisation package includes electronic package that even Tulpar is not kitted out with, nor would a foreign supplier provide for Otokar.

If they need a new modern IFV or a dedicated Light Tank the army would go with traditional tracked vehicle provider FNSS - they have the facilities to produce on mass and a tracked record of providing excellent service.

Kaplan series of Tracked Vehicles

Light Tank
View attachment 23872

--All Amphibious--

30ton IFV
View attachment 23873

20ton IFV
View attachment 23874

10ton IFV "ANTI-TANK platform "
View attachment 23875

As much as I like FNSS, they are behind Otokar‘s Tulpar. Starting from the design (currently one) to protection level. Despite from the FNSS 20t, they all look like stretched and face lifted M-114, to be honest. Not to mention that Otokar has also mass production capabilities.

But one of the important point is, what we can gain from a new vehicle in a technology manner (know how). Of course, sometimes it is better to update/upgrade a vehicle than to make a new one.

 

[Huelague]

They have much better R&D capabilities. They could had even further improved the tank, turret, develop different variants while waiting for engine development.

Again, I wished Otokar has won the tender, it is still the better choice, but I have my doubts if they would start a mass production of a tank without having an engine.

 

[Huelague]

One wonders why Otokar always goes with foreign sub-systems.

That’s indeed mysterious.

 

[Stimpy75]

They always do that even if they have the ability to use parts from their sister company like the engine of ford otosan trucks... I really don't understand why so many hype this company? They just assembled Altay prototype. And how many Tulpar did they produce? Honest question! And I don't get to the point where they sell chicom truck here....oh the outrage when another company would have done this!

 

[Nutuk]

Again, I wished Otokar has won the tender, it is still the better choice, but I have my doubts if they would start a mass production of a tank without having an engine.

It's not about wishing or preferring company A, B or C.

What should have happened is a clear honnest transparant tender, which is not the case.

And like in the case with Tumosan, if a company fails to deliver the tendered obligations than the project gets re-tendered or it passes to the second best offering company to finish the job.

With the BMC serial production tender of the Altay tank we see so many things in which tender rules are bend that one cannot take the tank tender serious anymore.

 

[Spook]

They always do that even if they have the ability to use parts from their sister company like the engine of ford otosan trucks... I really don't understand why so many hype this company? They just assembled Altay prototype. And how many Tulpar did they produce? Honest question! And I don't get to the point where they sell chicom truck here....oh the outrage when another company would have done this!

It has to do with Koc Holding. They are globohomo. They prefer partnerships with large companies rather being ambitious and create their own products. They are the biggest industrial conglomerate, they have power, capabilities. Otosan is the company in Turkey with most capability to develop engines. I mean tank 1500hp powerpack is something else but they could had at least developed smaller engines.

 

[Kartal1]

For IFV procurement I am all the way for FNSS. I would want to see both tracked and wheeled IFVs procured featuring Akkor APS, modified Korhan turret able to carry at least two ATGMs and amphibious capability for the tracked version.

I would also like to see Kaplan MT light tank with included amphibious capability (if they did it for the 30 ton Kaplan IFV they would be able to do it here also), APS and capability of firing 105mm TANOK ATGMs for its cannon for the marines. I want to ensure that the marines have a dedicated direct fire support and are able to operate independently without a problem without the need of Land Forces support in the initial moments of their beach cleaning operation and ensuring of perimeter security for the Land Forces units that are yet to come mainly logistics, infantry and tank units.

All these changes require also changes to the doctrine of the Land Forces which by my understanding are maybe the most conservative (Turkish- odun kafali) branch of the armed forces so the utilization of the IFVs will be in the best way possible. It will require restructuring of the mechanized infantry brigades so the combination between MRAPs, IFVs, Tanks and Support Vehicles is optimal and Navy's Amphibious Task Group Command will need also to be restructured in order to be able to integrate the tank units and their supportive elements.

I believe that those changes are going to happen more sooner than later. The current TSK command and the MoD Hulusi Akar made some things that nobody dared to do before while possible. I personally blame them for many things on the political side but when it comes to innovation, technology application and vision to the future they surpassed my expectations so far as we were looking at undefeatable tradition of conservatism that was even conservative towards optical devices for the professional units so our units fought with iron sights while optics were widely available worldwide. Now the Land Forces is starting to take another shape starting from the small things moving towards the big things on the chain. The Navy and the Air Forces are ongoing changes to their ways of operating, getting new technologies/capabilities and I think that soon very big changes will also be done to the structure and doctrine of the Land Forces Command. We are yet to see tactical implementation for many things within the Land Forces that are developed by our national companies under the leadership of SSB. C4I networks, integration of UGVs will be some of the things that we are going to talk about in the following years. I also expect improvement of the way logistics units operate so the unfortunate events of Operation Euphrates Shield will stay in the past and never repeat. In terms of restructuring I think we will hear more about the importance of professional infantry units and establishment of Land Forces Special Operations Command within the leadership of 1st Commando Brigade. My only concern about all that is money because those changes require a lot of money as we are talking state of art systems.

 

[Spook]

I would also like to see Kaplan MT light tank with included amphibious capability (if they did it for the 30 ton Kaplan IFV they would be able to do it here also), APS and capability of firing 105mm TANOK ATGMs for its cannon for the marines. I want to ensure that the marines have a dedicated direct fire support and are able to operate independently without a problem without the need of Land Forces support in the initial moments of their beach cleaning operation and ensuring of perimeter security for the Land Forces units that are yet to come mainly logistics, infantry and tank units.

30-35 ton medium tank is also better for urban and mountainous environment. Can be also airlifted with A400M. Subsystems from M60TM modernization can be used to create very cost-effective platform. TANOK capability can turn it into tank killer.

 

[Zafer]

I personally like otokar more than BMC

Otokar signed contract to develop a tank and did deliver an excellent tank
BMC signed contract to build that tank, now where is the tank?

I like professional companies, companies that deliver

The tank is where the engine is. There is no tank without an engine, Otokar made a tank with many strings attached. That is no different from the F35, you can have it but it is not yours, you can not use it when you want to.

 

[Abdelaziz]

I personally like otokar more than BMC

Otokar signed contract to develop a tank and did deliver an excellent tank
BMC signed contract to build that tank, now where is the tank?

I like professional companies, companies that deliver

The dumbest thing i have heard today ... even if the contract was given to otokar ..they cannot produce an engine or get it from abroad .. bmc started an engine and transmission R&D ..reached Prototyp and testing phase ... They did a great breakthrough that otokar cant do .. otokar uses a lot of imported subsystems ..and this go against the ssb policy