TR Marine Mavi Vatan (Blue Homeland)

Yasar_TR

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Please discuss these important matters without personalising and within civil norms.
everyone has the right to have different opinions. If not agreeing with yours you may make a point of your opinion as long as it is within forum rules.
 

Bylis

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according to tweet CIA predicted the military growth of Turkey and Greece not being able to keep up.
The Ottomans neglected the navy(Byzantines did the same and Venice steamrolled them)and fell behind the other powers circa 1600,when they prioritised the wars with the Safavids. When they turned westwards,the warfare in europe had changed for the better and Vienna happened. Whether Turkey controlls the aegean, or it weakens to irrelevance.
 

Bylis

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Just for context: Cem Gürdeniz and Cihat Yayci are very famous in Greece,especially Gurdeniz. They come just after RTE,Akar and Çavuşoğlu
 

Ryder

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The Ottomans neglected the navy(Byzantines did the same and Venice steamrolled them)and fell behind the other powers circa 1600,when they prioritised the wars with the Safavids. When they turned westwards,the warfare in europe had changed for the better and Vienna happened. Whether Turkey controlls the aegean, or it weakens to irrelevance.

Ottoman navy stagnated because the funds went to the army.

There was no naval men like Barborossa to keep the Ottoman government interested. Then you have stupid internal politics. You dont even wanna know the obstacles Hayreddin went because of the government.

Aegan Sea, Black Sea and the Eastern Med along with the Red Sea have became the Turkish lake.

Ottomans failed to control the Indian Ocean and the Western Med. They did control the Western med for like 20 years or so.

I feel like the Ottomans ruling like 4 seas have led to its stagnated feeling because there was no competition in the sea it ruled.

While the Europeans were sailing the open ocean and were engaging in an arms race which allowed their ships to be more advanced.

Lots of factors on what led to the Ottoman navy collapsing. It did not happen overnight but it was happening for centuries until the empire collapsed itself.

Now we live with the consequences.

If the Ottomans cared about ocean going travel. Conquering Morocco and Yemen was a must. Because it gave us access to Atlantic and the Indian ocean.

But instead the Moroccans and Yemenis had to be assholes about it 🤬

But there was one problem as Yemen and Morocco barely had any forests that could lead to ships being built. Forest cut down in Anatolia had to be shipped to Yemeni ports so ships are built. Thats a logistical nightmare.

Also Balkans were full of forest so you had to ship timber to Morocco. No point in having a naval port if Morroco is not pacified.
 
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Lool

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Saithan

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The idea is good, but is it necessary @Cypro did mention this previously. But I can’t remember what he said.

If we can counter the US lifting embargo and starting to train GC with National Guard in a different way then it would be more beneficial.

My personal conviction is more turkish population is the best alternative.
 

Bogeyman 

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US ammunition supplies dwindle as Ukraine war drains stockpiles​


The United States will soon be unable to provide Ukraine with certain types of ammunition that are essential to Kyiv's battle against Russia's invasion, as supplies are being used up faster than they can be replaced.


Washington has become by far the largest supplier of arms to Ukraine since Russia launched the invasion on February 24, with more than $16.8 billion in military assistance provided since that date.
But US stockpiles of some equipment are "reaching the minimum levels needed for war plans and training," and restocking to pre-invasion levels could take years, Mark Cancian of the Center for Strategic and International Studies wrote in a recent analysis.
Washington is "learning lessons" from the conflict about ammunition needs in a great power war, which are "far greater" than expected, a US military official acknowledged on condition of anonymity.
American defense firms were forced to drastically reduce production in the 1990s as the United States slashed defense spending following the collapse of the Soviet Union, and their number fell dramatically, from dozens to single digits.
Now, the US government must convince the industry to reopen assembly lines and relaunch production of items such as Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, which have not been made since 2020.
Some US-provided equipment has become emblematic of the war in Ukraine, such as Javelin anti-tank weapons that were widely used by Kyiv's forces to blunt the Russian advance on the capital, and the Himars, a precision rocket system now playing a key role in counter-offensives against Moscow's troops in the east and south.

'No alternatives'​

But US stocks of ammunition for Himars -- which fires GPS-guided rockets known as GMLRS, with a range of more than 80 kilometers (50 miles) -- are dwindling.
"If the United States sent one-third of that inventory to Ukraine (as has been the case with Javelin and Stinger), Ukraine would receive 8,000 to 10,000 rockets. That inventory would likely last several months, but, when the inventory is exhausted, there are no alternatives," said Cancian, who previously worked on weapons procurement for the US government.

"Production is about 5,000 a year. Although the United States is working to increase that amount, and money has recently been allocated for that purpose, it will take years," he said, adding that older equipment could help fill the gap.

The United States has provided some 8,500 Javelin missiles to Kyiv, but production of a weapon that has become a symbol of Ukrainian resistance is only about 1,000 per year.

'As long as it takes'​

The US government ordered $350 million worth of the missiles in May, but it will again take several years before stockpiles are replenished.

The United States has also supplied more than 800,000 NATO standard 155 mm artillery shells to Kyiv -- three-quarters of the total amount delivered by all Western countries, according to official Pentagon statistics.

The amount of shells Washington has provided "is probably close to the limit that the United States is willing to give without risk to its own warfighting capabilities," Cancian said.

US production of these shells currently stands at 14,000 per month, but the Pentagon has announced that it aims to increase that figure to 36,000 within three years. That would still only bring annual production to 432,000 -- less than half of what has been provided to Ukraine in seven months.

And the US defense industry production is speeding up, Laura Cooper, a senior defense department official responsible for Russia and Ukraine, said Tuesday.

"The United States will continue to stand with the Ukrainian people and provide them with the security assistance they need to defend themselves for as long as it takes," she said.

The United States cannot simultaneously send weapons to Greece, Ukraine and Taiwan and enter a hybrid or direct war. They still haven't started a production mobilization. It's just a time that works against them. So take the with a pinch of salt US claim that we will go to war if the Russians use nuclear weapons or if China invades Taiwan. Because today, the USA does not have the strength to stand behind its claims.
 

GoatsMilk

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GoatsMilk

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The idea is good, but is it necessary @Cypro did mention this previously. But I can’t remember what he said.

If we can counter the US lifting embargo and starting to train GC with National Guard in a different way then it would be more beneficial.

My personal conviction is more turkish population is the best alternative.

Same problem with islands in the aegean, lots of talking and no actions invites trouble.

But this is the same old same old from the administration.
 

Heartbang

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Ekran görüntüsü 2022-10-30 203057.png
 

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