TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

[Yasar_TR]

what if SIMSEK 1 is mounted with HGV ? woudnt it be outstanding ?

I hate these acronyms.
“Heavy Goods Vehicle”?
They mean so many different things.

Hypervelocity Glide Vehicle Avangarde, said to be tested successfully by the Russians when they showed it to US officials and supposedly being in it’s serial production state was being delivered to units by the end of 2019,
Both Chinese and Russians were boasting about the technology. Chinese DF-ZF glider can travel at speeds between 5 to 10 Mach and can be fitted on to a rocket like DF21 for delivery. It is said to be in Chinese inventory since 2019.
Both Simsek 1 and 2 will be made so that they can place a load like a satellite in to orbit. They are not to be built to carry explosive heads thousands of miles away. Yes if a country can fire missiles 550-1000km high from earth’s surface, they would have the technology to build a ballistic missile system that can carry a glide vehicle.
The whole idea behind these hypersonic glide vehicles is that they are put in to upper atmosphere by a very fast ballistic missile that can travel at a speed of up to 27 Mach and release glide vehicles to target on earth. The glide vehicles that carry the explosive, do lose a lot of that speed during and after re entry. But still can hit their targets at hypersonic speeds. That makes them almost impervious to most current air defence systems.
Turkey is not there yet. But has the potential to start work on such a project.

 

[Afif]

I hate these acronyms.
“Heavy Goods Vehicle”?
They mean so many different things.

easy my friend! i just used it as a common military terminology. no need for hard feelings!

 

[Yasar_TR]

easy my friend! i just used it as a common military terminology. no need for hard feelings!

Sorry if I sounded personal. But my comment was general. I was blowing off steam with a half hearted pun.
Acronyms make writing easier when mentioning long winded series of words. But not everyone knows what each acronym means. As we are writing in a defence forum, one would be expected to know HGV. But they may also mean something else. In daily life in UK , HGV is used very often by all levels of population as “Heavy Goods Vehicle” so much that it is almost like a word in it’s own right. Bit like we call them TIR in Turkish.

 

[Afif]

I mean, quite a few countries are now competing in the hypersonic domain. And it is understandable, given how it tactically, and to some extent strategically change the power dynamics in favor of the possessor. I think, in the future hypersonic capability will have an strategic important for turkish 'two and half war' doctrine. Given it will allow turkey to hold adversaries strategic assets at risk in a short time notice without launching a massive and costly conventional air campaign.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577708220759654401

Alpagu presented for usage.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Guys are they planning to integrate Cakir missile on Aksungur ? Or no confirmation yet ?

 

[bisbis]

At the beginning of the Ukrainian war, the Russians, who could not establish air superiority, had to use surface-launched cruise missiles a lot. Considering a Turkish-Greek conflict, this shows how much of a need the Traveler missile is for us in the confrontation of two countries with equal air power. Our cruise missile project must reach a conclusion as soon as possible.

 

[dBSPL]

Guys are they planning to integrate Cakir missile on Aksungur ? Or no confirmation yet ?

In the video about the concept of ÇAKIR, which was shown in the first press presentation, the UAV-supported operation was especially underlined. Later, ROKETSAN General Manager Murat Ikinci stated to a newspaper that one of the main objectives of ÇAKIR was to increase the strike range of UCAVs to 150 kilometers deep and to make them a strategic platform. In the past months, also many well known defense news sites have also shared many news in this vein.

 

[bisbis]

This is the second version of Alpagu delivered. The first design system was revised and developed in line with the supplier's requirements. The most important thing I remember about Alpagu was the sound problem. In the first version, the thrust sound was too much. I hope that the propulsion system sound level has been reduced in the second version developed. Since the sound of the vehicle is not heard in the videos, I do not know the final version.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

New Roketsan facility works in Kirikkale

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578719962964770817

 

[Afif]

I always have doubts about the credibility and the effectiveness (what usually claimed ) of subsonic low flying cruse missiles even if they have stealth characteristics!
And it is becoming clear day by day in ukraine conflict how vulnerable these subsonic cruise missiles are! even when it comes to fairly old and unsophisticated air defense systems equipped with old gen pesa radar and less maneuverable semi active interceptors.

( Ukraine air defense force success rate ( which is mostly consists of buks, kubs and s300 ) against these missile are roughly 60 percent which is lot considering ukraine didn't have any modern air defence from the beginning and they received the first\ nasam battery only last month and german IRIS T SLM is yet to come )

here are just few examples.
https://www.savunmasanayist.com/ukraynali-askerin-manpads-ile-seyir-fuzesi-dusurdugu-anlar/ T https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...ChAWegQIGhAB&usg=AOvVaw3JPMuKsjaYCW6sWcO0wia3 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FBAWegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3vGFzf_8G-pp8hRP1lZvRD https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QQFnoECCkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0SCHwqLpt0ezf2Et54umzk

so, anyone can estimate how bad these will perform against a state of art air defense system equipped with an aesa radar and EOTS and highly maneuverable modern interceptors equipped with active seeker or IIR seeker.

I think, ukraine war should be a worrying development for the air forces who's doctrine heavily relies on subsonic cruise missiles for deep strikes.

AND TURKEY IS CURRENTLY ONE OF THEM.
SO, THAT'S WHY I THINK TURKISH RAMJET MISSILES PROGRAMS HAS STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE AS IT WILL DIVERSIFY THE CURRENT ARSENAL AND WILL OFFER MORE FLEXIBILITY WITH THE COMBINATION OF SUPERSONIC AND SUBSONIC ELEMENTS.

After all, it seems SPEED does matter! And a supersonic cruise missile has better chance defeating AD than a subsonic one.

Note: this is just my personal opinion. Don't take it too seriously! And I am keen to hear your comments on this guys ! @Yasar @dBSPL

 

[Radonsider]

I always have doubts about the credibility and the effectiveness of subsonic low flying cruse missiles even if they have stealth characteristics! And it has been clear day by day in ukraine conflict how vanurable these subsonic cruise missiles are! even when it comes to fairly old and unsophisticated air defence systems eqquipped with old gen pesa radar and less maneuverable semi active interceptors. (Ukraine air defence force success rate ( which consists of mostly bukso, kubs and s300 ) against these missile are roughly 60 percent which is lot considering ukraine didn't have any morden air defence from the beginning and they received the firsr nasam battery only last month and german IRIS T SLM is yet to come ) here are just a few examples. https://www.savunmasanayist.com/ukraynali-askerin-manpads-ile-seyir-fuzesi-dusurdugu-anlar/ T https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...ChAWegQIGhAB&usg=AOvVaw3JPMuKsjaYCW6sWcO0wia3 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FBAWegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3vGFzf_8G-pp8hRP1lZvRD https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QQFnoECCkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0SCHwqLpt0ezf2Et54umzk

so, anyone can estimate how these will perform against a state of art air defence system equipped with an aesa radar and EOTS and highly maneuverable morden interceptors equipped with active seeker or IIR seeker. I think, ukraine war should be a worrying development for the air forces who's doctrine heavily relies on subsonic cruise missiles for deep strikes. ( I think turkey one of them currently ) After all, it seems SPEED does matter! And a supersonic cruise missile has better chance defeating AD than a subsonic one. Note: this is just my personal opinion. Don't take it too seriously! And I am keen to hear your comments on this guys ! @Yasar @dBSPL

Also we can discuss further air launched ABM and air defence systems, like making a big Gökdoğan with booster and bigger width, we can probably achieve ABM and CM interception.

Where this tech you peak is when you combine these with stealth aircraft

 

[Anmdt]

I think, ukraine war should be a worrying development for the air forces who's doctrine heavily relies on subsonic cruise missiles for deep strikes.

When properly used ALCMs are efficient, what you see in this video is merely a "lucky shot". Don't judge any system's effectiveness based on how Russia utilizes them.
It has already been proven how incompetent RuAF at conventional warfare.

 

[Oublious]

I always have doubts about the credibility and the effectiveness of subsonic low flying cruse missiles even if they have stealth characteristics!
And it is becoming clear day by day in ukraine conflict how vulnerable these subsonic cruise missiles are! even when it comes to fairly old and unsophisticated air defense systems equipped with old gen pesa radar and less maneuverable semi active interceptors.

( Ukraine air defense force success rate ( which is mostly consists of buks, kubs and s300 ) against these missile are roughly 60 percent which is lot considering ukraine didn't have any modern air defence from the beginning and they received the first\ nasam battery only last month and german IRIS T SLM is yet to come )

here are just few examples.
https://www.savunmasanayist.com/ukraynali-askerin-manpads-ile-seyir-fuzesi-dusurdugu-anlar/ T https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...ChAWegQIGhAB&usg=AOvVaw3JPMuKsjaYCW6sWcO0wia3 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FBAWegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3vGFzf_8G-pp8hRP1lZvRD https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...QQFnoECCkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0SCHwqLpt0ezf2Et54umzk

so, anyone can estimate how bad these will perform against a state of art air defense system equipped with an aesa radar and EOTS and highly maneuverable modern interceptors equipped with active seeker or IIR seeker.

I think, ukraine war should be a worrying development for the air forces who's doctrine heavily relies on subsonic cruise missiles for deep strikes.

AND TURKEY IS CURRENTLY ONE OF THEM.
SO, THAT'S WHY I THINK TURKISH RAMJET MISSILES PROGRAMS HAS STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE AS IT WILL DIVERSIFY THE CURRENT ARSENAL AND WILL OFFER MORE FLEXIBILITY WITH THE COMBINATION OF SUPERSONIC AND SUBSONIC ELEMENTS.

After all, it seems SPEED does matter! And a supersonic cruise missile has better chance defeating AD than a subsonic one.

Note: this is just my personal opinion. Don't take it too seriously! And I am keen to hear your comments on this guys ! @Yasar @dBSPL

I don't think you understand what you are saying, because they hit a cuirse missiles doesn't mean the time of subsonic cruisemissiles is game over.

 

[Afif]

I don't think you understand what you are saying, because they hit a cuirse missiles doesn't mean the time of subsonic cruisemissiles is game over.

I think i understand what I am saying.
Please read my post properly!
What I am saying is, in last 7 months of war ukrain's old and unsophisticated soviet era air defense systems acheived roughly 50/ 60 percent success rate against the russian cruise missile attacks. And lot of it are stealthy and modern missiles like the kh101 and kalibrs.

So based on that i am speculating that, a sophisticated modern air defense system with network centric capability equipped with aesa radar and more capable interceptor will have much higher success rate against these cruise missiles. ( probably 80/90 percent )

So that's may be problematic for air forces that relies heavily on subsonic cruise missiles for deep strikes.

and I definitely didn't said, they hit a missile so the time for subsonic cruise missile is game over!

 

[Mehmed Ali]

I think that sub sonic cruise missiles are especially venerable in naval use. I think that French navy came to that conclusion after Polaris excise last years. They stated as soon as missile crosses the horizon, no matter how sophisticated and stealthy ,it is easily detected and tracked.

 

[Afif]

I think that sub sonic cruise missiles are especially venerable in naval use. I think that French navy came to that conclusion after Polaris excise last years. They stated as soon as missile crosses the horizon, no matter how sophisticated and stealthy ,it is easily detected and tracked.

more or less it is same with the modern land based air defense systems

 

[Heartbang]

What I am saying is, in last 7 months of war ukrain's old and unsophisticated soviet era air defense systems acheived roughly 50/ 60 percent success rate against the russian cruise missile attacks. And lot of it are stealthy and modern missiles like the kh101 and kalibrs.

theyre fighting on the worlds most flattest battlefields. of course its gonna be easy for terrain hugging cruise missiles to get swatted out of the sky. we Turks dont have that kinda environment. our geography is bumpy af. Ankara is the worlds only 4D city. those air defences would seize up in here.

 

[UkroTurk]

Have you noticed Russians launch cruise missiles from the Caspian sea, why?
Because first stage of launch is easy to notice from radars. Also local people could notice and inform to enemy.

So that's why Russians prefer kamikaze drones which is hard to be detected.

Turkish Navy also could use kamikaze drones from frigates.

IMHO another rising star is guided artillery rockets as anti-ship missiles which are very hard to be destroyed by air defense. TRG300 could engage slow moving targets. AFAIK 600mm bora SRBM was tested or will be tested with active radar seeker.

 

[Afif]

theyre fighting on the worlds most flattest battlefields. of course its gonna be easy for terrain hugging cruise missiles to get swatted out of the sky. we Turks dont have that kinda environment. our geography is bumpy af. Ankara is the worlds only 4D city. those air defences would seize up in here.

4RD city ?! that would be definitely on my next year tour list ! Jokes aside, usually most of the major air bases and amry bases are built on flat terrains! Is it not ?