TR Missile & Smart Munition Programs

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,503
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,896
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
President of SSB was talking about HISAR-O being integrated with booster in recent CNN interview, I'm wondering whether these are two separate projects.
I think he has told it in that way for public. It is very obvious siper block-0 differs from Hisar-RF. My theory was; Roketsan had to do modifications and improvement to satisfy new requirements.
 
T

Turko

Guest
İ have feeling that Siper without booster will transform into G60. And G60 could be launched from EDAS which is more compact.

Again IMHO There won't be G40 .
Also we might see Turkish Sea Ceptor.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Knowledgeseeker

Experienced member
Moderator
Arab Moderator
Morocco Moderator
Messages
1,823
Reactions
20 4,649
Nation of residence
Norway
Nation of origin
Moroco
I wish we heard more about the development of long range ballistic missiles. I guess its gonna be a secret for some time
 

Agha Sher

Experienced member
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,755
Reactions
11 9,303
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Afghanistan
This might open pandora's box, but I have a few questions.

Around 10 years ago there was a lot of talk (by senior people) about a MRBM. After a few years, everyone went complete silent, probably due to the projects sensitivity. Given that many years has passed, it is fair to assume with a high confidence level that Turkey in fact does have a MRBM. However, to my knowledge, Turkey has not been conducting any suspicious missile tests to prove the viability of such a system. Surely Turkey wouldn't want to wait till the hour of need to find out whether they work or not. Could Turkey have secretly tested the MRBM in Pakistan? What are your thought?
 

dustdevil

Committed member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
271
Reactions
669
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
The job can be done by more precisios CM.
Suppose that I want to close the air base of the opponent very fast. The base is protected by many layers of defense, inluding ships, aircraft, AA guns, SAM sites.

scenario 1: I send 30 cruise missiles
scenario 2: I send 30 of the following warheads on multiple longer range rockets


change air base with SAM sites, harbors, ship formations.. It’s very crude but should work, and imagine it with 2021 technology…
 
Last edited:

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,252
Reactions
142 16,313
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
This might open pandora's box, but I have a few questions.

Around 10 years ago there was a lot of talk (by senior people) about a MRBM. After a few years, everyone went complete silent, probably due to the projects sensitivity. Given that many years has passed, it is fair to assume with a high confidence level that Turkey in fact does have a MRBM. However, to my knowledge, Turkey has not been conducting any suspicious missile tests to prove the viability of such a system. Surely Turkey wouldn't want to wait till the hour of need to find out whether they work or not. Could Turkey have secretly tested the MRBM in Pakistan? What are your thought?
Turkey may have MRBM production capability. But not MRBMs. The latest space rocket launches prove that Turkey has the capability to manufacture them if needed. But let it be known that with all the Russian, US and Israeli satellites watching, there is no way Turkey could have tested a MRBM without anybody noticing.
Besides, why would Turkey need a MRBM? MRBMs have a range of 1000km to 3000km. They can be tracked by modern long range AD radars. AD systems like the new Aster30-1NT and Aster30-bl2BMD , can target and stop 1500km range and 3000km range MRBMs respectively.
MRBMs are very inefficient way of deploying conventional explosive charges over long distances. Just look at say a DF21 missile; 2000km range, around 15ton weight , and all that to deliver 600kg of explosives. These missiles are not cheap. Unless you are delivering WMDs , they are not worth it , with the exception of using them as carrier killers. For this you need a multi-maneuvering missile travelling at hypersonic speeds with very precise guiding system.
It would be more advantageous for Turkey to develop maneuvering SRBMs up to 800-1000km range that can deliver 500kg of explosives with terminal speeds in excess of 6-7 Mach and hit moving targets like ships. In fact a Bora-2 with 6-800km range that can manoeuvre multiple times during flight and achieve hypersonic terminal speeds, will be a game changer in our geography. @Cabatli_53 may enlighten us better on the subject.
 

Anastasius

Contributor
Moderator
Azerbaijan Moderator
Messages
1,415
Reactions
5 3,143
Nation of residence
United States of America
Nation of origin
Azerbaijan
This might open pandora's box, but I have a few questions.

Around 10 years ago there was a lot of talk (by senior people) about a MRBM. After a few years, everyone went complete silent, probably due to the projects sensitivity. Given that many years has passed, it is fair to assume with a high confidence level that Turkey in fact does have a MRBM. However, to my knowledge, Turkey has not been conducting any suspicious missile tests to prove the viability of such a system. Surely Turkey wouldn't want to wait till the hour of need to find out whether they work or not. Could Turkey have secretly tested the MRBM in Pakistan? What are your thought?
Unless Turkey is secretly testing them for the purposes of a secret nuclear weapons program, no.
 

Quasar

Contributor
The Post Deleter
Messages
734
Reactions
51 3,280
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
It is a fact that as soon as you add or change anything on these missiles, you are altering the missile’s aerodynamic structure. So if by adding RF seeker head and a booster, they altered these so much that even the fin design had to be redone.
I can add as a conjecture; Whilst at it they may have streamlined it so much that it would fit in to MILDAS’s cells in quad pack form. Hence the black missile. Looking sleeker and very different.
may be just a foot note quad pack form ''seems'' only can be achived through a new ''Slimer but longer booster'' design which shouldnt be that difficult for Roketsan.
 

Cabatli_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
5,360
Reactions
81 45,455
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
S. KOREA SLV
KSR31m Diameter 9,6m Length150kg Payload80km Altitude2002
KSLV12,9m Diameter33,5m Length100kg Payload1500km
Altitude
2009
2010
2013
KSLV23,5m Diameter47,2m Length1500+kg Payload800+km
Altitude
2021


ISRAEL SLV and Ballistic Missile
Shavit21,35m Diameter22m Length300/500kg Payload600km Altitude2016
2020
Jericho31,56m Diameter15,5m Length1000kg Warhead5000km Range-


TURKEY SLV Programs
MUFA Test1,35m Diameter12/13m Length100+kg
Payload
300+km
Altitude
2023
MUFA1,35m Diameter19m
Length
100+km Payload400+km Altitude2025
MUFA+1,35m Diameter + Two side thru19+m Length200+km Payload550+km Altitude~2026-2027
Şimsek-12,5-3m Diameter~28m Length1500+kg Payload800+km Altitude~2030

In this table, you can see which diameters of SLVs Turkey is aiming to produce and what ranges ballistic missiles of similar diameters can reach in other states. You can see which ranges Turkey can go to when it is needed. The statement of Ismail Demir on CNNTurk on this subject also shows that we are exposed to serious embargoes to prevent us being able to own these critical technologies.
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,640
Reactions
37 19,749
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
In this table, you can see which diameters of SLVs Turkey is aiming to produce and what ranges ballistic missiles of similar diameters can reach in other states. You can see which ranges Turkey can go to when it is needed. The statement of Ismail Demir on CNNTurk on this subject also shows that we are exposed to serious embargoes to prevent us being able to own these critical technologies.
is there a reason the diameter is 1,35m ? I imagine slimmer missiles would be a smaller target.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,683
Reactions
7 7,389
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
In this table, you can see which diameters of SLVs Turkey is aiming to produce and what ranges ballistic missiles of similar diameters can reach in other states. You can see which ranges Turkey can go to when it is needed. The statement of Ismail Demir on CNNTurk on this subject also shows that we are exposed to serious embargoes to prevent us being able to own these critical technologies.
We can achieve 3000 km range by end of 2023 I guess.
 
Last edited:

Huelague

Experienced member
Messages
3,950
Reactions
5 4,146
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
Suppose that I want to close the air base of the opponent very fast. The base is protected by many layers of defense, inluding ships, aircraft, AA guns, SAM sites.

scenario 1: I send 30 cruise missiles
scenario 2: I send 30 of the following warheads on multiple longer range rockets


change air base with SAM sites, harbors, ship formations.. It’s very crude but should work, and imagine it with 2021 technology…
Which scenario can be detect earlier by an ADS? First one or second one?
 

dustdevil

Committed member
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
271
Reactions
669
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Which scenario can be detect earlier by an ADS? First one or second one?
It was on open question, I don't think we have to chose one of them. Much of the public view on ballistic missiles come from associating them with dictators or nuclear threat and WMDs so people do not like them. But superpowers use them too. In recent years they have been increasing range of conventional missiles, or adding different methods of delivery...


For your question, I guess it depends on capabilities of the defender. USA or equivalent would detect missiles just after the launch via satellite for warning or engagement, in ideal conditions.

Cruise missile : slow flight, low altitude, terrain coverage, stealth can be applied, mobile launchers including aircraft, can follow waypoints, smart sensors
Ballistic missile: fast flight, ballistic trajectory, stealth may be applied to warhead/reentry vehicle, mobile launchers, aircraft may carry small missiles
Modern (quasi)ballistic missile: fast flight, depressed trajectory if needed, maneuvering, may be a carrier for gliding reentry vehicles

The end result is the same (deliver warhead to the target) but the means is different and each has its advantages. Because of this, defense methods are somewhat different.

What is the biggest advantage of ballistic missiles over cruise missiles (I did not try to list all of them):

- Time to target. Let's say for a target at ~2000km, flight time for the ballistic missile is around 10-12 minutes, maybe 7-8 minutes with a depressed trajectory. For the cruise missile with high subsonic speed, it's around 2 hours.
- Speed. Because of the speed, it's harder to intercept. If intercepted late, can still damage the target.
- Deception. Several low cost decoy missiles could be launched along with real ones, defending force might not differentiate between them. This is more important for nuclear weapons though, but can be applied to conventional missiles for surprise/saturation.


Cruise missile advantages:

- Low cost, off-the-shelf components make them accessible now.
- Can use terrain cover and radar horizon by flying low
- Able to use waypoints

Let's consider Turkey... what can we do against both:

- For CM threat we can use AEW&C aircraft, low altitude radars, fighters with look-down radar, sensor network, SAMs blocking possible CM routes. Turkey can do it now.
- For ballistic missiles we can use AEW&C, UAVs near enemy territory for launch detection, stand-off munition to target launchers. For interception we don't have much at the moment, SAMs like S400 would only protect a limited area. If the launchers are away from our reach we would have difficulties with those methods.

As a side note, unlike some people who view/want them as a cover for potential long range ballistic missiles, I believe the space rockets of Roketsan and Delta-V are more important than SRBM/IRBM/ICBM work. Independent access to space is way more important than a weapon.
 
Last edited:

manifesto

Committed member
Messages
153
Reactions
3 474
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I think, anymore they will explosed a gökdogan video. Or maybe ramjet motor test? I can not know Altan.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom