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I am a little bit disappointed too I must admit. The length compared to “rumored” Israeli Dragon and “proposed” Korean KSS III classes seem to be well within the range of supporting at least a 4 tube VLS.Milden without VLS will be lackluster. They should do a better job. Does this mean the cold launch works is not promising.
6 years is a very optimistic term for a new submarine and first hull of a new class. Might easily take up to 2035 with sea trials and delays involved in the components. Also gives us time to work on national AIP, propulsion systems etc.View attachment 47210
View attachment 47213
Colonel Mr Afacan's statement about Milden:
2700ton displacement
80+m Length overall
AIP diesel-electric submarine
Heavier weapon/missile payload than any submarine in TN inventory
@Anmdt
- Conceptual design phase completed
- Preliminary design phase commenced in 2022
- Construction of first Milden will commence in 2025
- Delivery is around 2031
What do you mean by proposed? The first ship has been delivered long ago and the second and third ships have already been launched.“proposed” Korean KSS III classes
its not a matter of want, its a matter of need.Most importantly, what does Türkiye want to do with VLS? ROKN has both the SLBM and supersonic ASM. Better opt for a more conventional layout on your first go.
Delays of such scale usually comes down to a bad project management or unrealistic goals, as you would know.6 years is a very optimistic term for a new submarine and first hull of a new class. Might easily take up to 2035 with sea trials and delays involved in the components. Also gives us time to work on national AIP, propulsion systems etc.
Whoa whoa, chill mate, I've never said anything close to that. Quit the "create and hit a straw" strategy. I'm asking why Türkiye needs a VLS if it's got no armaments that actually needs it.you seem to think of Turkiye as some sort of weasel-y blob of a nation backed into a corner, pushing its defence industry to its absolute limits to just hold onto what its got. the reality of the situation is FAR from that.
Us Turks know what we are capable of, on the merit of what we achieved before, even in the grasp of great adversity.
So you're saying that those who've laid out the requirements for MILDEN and those who've done the concept studies are bunch of malicious people who are actively trying to sabotage Türkiye? Do you even realize how ridiculous what you're saying sounds like?this great nation's magnificent navy deserves a national sub with VLS cells. anyone who claims otherwise is malevolent in his intent
The problems are not the Greeks here. We must be able to hit “Every” nation from our subs with our coming Nukes, from every position. This is the ultimate goal. Because no nation on earth can prevent such a nuke strike from a sub.its not a matter of want, its a matter of need.
a couple of subs full of SLBMs marching up and down Ionian sea would be an excellent answer to the greek belligerence.
you seem to think of Turkiye as some sort of weasel-y blob of a nation backed into a corner, pushing its defence industry to its absolute limits to just hold onto what its got. the reality of the situation is FAR from that.
Us Turks know what we are capable of, on the merit of what we achieved before, even in the grasp of great adversity.
this great nation's magnificent navy deserves a national sub with VLS cells. anyone who claims otherwise is malevolent in his intent.
this right here @Windchime . even if theres no need at the moment, they should be added on the basis of future requirements.Türkiye needs submarines that can threat back the hostiles that threat Türkiye where ever they are, and not only today but also into the future. Submarines have a long lifetime and the possible systems that can be integrated on them in the future have to be taken into account when they are to be built.
those who are currently in the process of designing this submarine know the facts ive stated here better than all of us. the "target audience" of that sentence is people like you who asks questions like "why would turkey need a sub with VLS cells?" or "why yall claim Hurjet carries 5 tons of munitions, the site says 2000 something kilos?" etc.So you're saying that those who've laid out the requirements for MILDEN and those whove done the concept studies are bunch of malicious people who are actively trying to sabotage Türkiye?
Yes, and does that model which have been designed by "those who are currently in the process of designing this submarine" contain a VLS? Doesn't seems to be the case. Like I've said, this ship is 2,700t and I'll tell you for one last time, internal space within a submarine is a very, very precious resource. If you want something, you forgo of something else. I don't give a fuck about how you conceive me because what I'm saying is based on technicalities and realities. Maybe you should go fix your sensitivity first since you sound so offended of such trivial matters.those who are currently in the process of designing this submarine know the facts ive stated here better than all of us. the "target audience" of that sentence is people like you who asks questions like "why would turkey need a sub with VLS cells?" or "why yall claim Hurjet carries 5 tons of munitions, the site says 2000 something kilos?" etc.
you come about as arrogant, hoity-toity and diminutive. THAT is what im mad about.
Says someone who also has nothing else than to say "Türkiye needs VLS !!!!11!!1" without much thought.and then here comes a guy whos like "hurr durr, the site says 2721 kilos!" or "what's TSK gonna do with VLS cells?!"
youre not adding value to the discourse.
They should maintain an open vision and not go for incremental capability gains by looking at the past but look into the future and strive to implement every new capability that Türkiye is gaining in the Milden. Their success will be determined by looking at the world not by looking at our Navy's past.Idk why people are so obsessed with VLS for the submarines, after all these programs are dictated by the Turkish navy and they are actually pretty good at planing. They know what they are doing, they know their needs and their capabilities so let them do what they do best. It's also a mock-up of something that is still in its preliminary design stages, making some hard analysis based on a mock-up of something that's still in its early stages is pointless things, are bound to change.
@Windchime , eat your heart out!Mdas or palistic launcher. View attachment 47224
Eat a heart my ass. Someone doesn't know that there are hatches meant for other things on a submarine. I'm not so sure why you're so angry in the first place.@Windchime , eat your heart out!
The perfect is the killer of the possible one.Eat a heart my ass. Someone doesn't know that there are hatches meant for other things on a submarine. I'm not so sure why you're so angry in the first place.
Did I say that Türkiye can't build a submarine with a VLS or that Türkiye doesn't have the technology? no. Did I give an explanation as to why it would be reasonable, to not include any VLS on MILDEN, as shown by the model? yes. If the design changes and if TDK decides they need VLS, well good for them.
Go take a chill pill hot damn. You guys act like a submarine is of no use if it doesn't have VLS.
The problem is only taken care of if SLBM and ASM. It is clear that we will go there in 5-10 years.What do you mean by proposed? The first ship has been delivered long ago and the second and third ships have already been launched.
Also, I don't know if the Ca. 2,500t displacement of MILDEN is surfaced or submerged, but if it's the latter, KSS-III is around a 1,000t larger in displacement. Cramping in VLS inside that ship will ruin crew compartments and living conditions.
Most importantly, what does Türkiye want to do with VLS? ROKN has both the SLBM and supersonic ASM. Better opt for a more conventional layout on your first go.
You!@Windchime , eat your heart out!