TR Naval Programs

Gary

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guys, how likely do you think the Bora missile family (bora, tayfun, cenk etc.) to be integrated into the MILDAS launch canister system?

it would be really nice if I-class ships had the ability to launch anti-ship ballistic missiles.
That will require a redesign of your national VLS and possibly a redesign of your ship. The I class is too small to carry BMs in a meaningful number, and its small size will affect its seaborne ability. Just for comparison, the Zumwalt that is to be equipped with the LRHW munitions could only carry 12 per ship, and this is for a ship that is 14000+ tons in tonnage, much larger than the already big sized Burke's. I class is btw at ~3000 tons.

US-Navy-Zumwalt-Class-Destroyer-CPS-Hypersonic-Missile.jpg


Zumwalt.jpeg
 

Anmdt

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That will require a redesign of your national VLS and possibly a redesign of your ship. The I class is too small to carry BMs in a meaningful number, and its small size will affect its seaborne ability. Just for comparison, the Zumwalt that is to be equipped with the LRHW munitions could only carry 12 per ship, and this is for a ship that is 14000+ tons in tonnage, much larger than the already big sized Burke's. I class is btw at ~3000 tons.

US-Navy-Zumwalt-Class-Destroyer-CPS-Hypersonic-Missile.jpg


Zumwalt.jpeg
Could store them in oblique way and erect with hydraulics if necessary, i don't see point of storing in mid-body canisters unless it is necessary for stealthiness. Though BMs need to be fired towards a direction, is it possible to fire SRBMs / TBMs vertically and then guide into path? I mean, i know technically possible but is it feasible to add that feature? If so, store it horizontal or oblique and erect before the launch.

Would a SRBM / TBM worth the trouble, i can see hypersonic glides add a multiplying factor but does TBM add it?
 

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Could store them in oblique way and erect with hydraulics if necessary, i don't see point of storing in mid-body canisters unless it is necessary for stealthiness. Though BMs need to be fired towards a direction, is it possible to fire SRBMs / TBMs vertically and then guide into path? I mean, i know technically possible but is it feasible to add that feature? If so, store it horizontal or oblique and erect before the launch.

Would a SRBM / TBM worth the trouble, i can see hypersonic glides add a multiplying factor but does TBM add it?
Chinese seems to doing it with their yj21 on type 55 destroyers.
 

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Navy has the longest demand list at SSIK, never ceases to amaze me with the requests. A portion of them which related to the platforms;

Mult purpose rescue vessel
Additional Dimdeg
Additional LST
Multi purpose ocean going tug
Research vessel
Mine hunter MLU
National Mine hunter project
Multi purpose heavy frigate
Design revision on TTHB
 

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Navy has the longest demand list at SSIK, never ceases to amaze me with the requests. A portion of them which related to the platforms;

Mult purpose rescue vessel
Additional Dimdeg
Additional LST
Multi purpose ocean going tug
Research vessel
Mine hunter MLU
National Mine hunter project
Multi purpose heavy frigate
Design revision on TTHB
idk looks like they exercised restraint to me
 

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The creation of a multi-role auxiliary vessels range will accelerate some of these projects. A hull range that can be configured to a wide range of auxiliary/support capabilities, such as explosive/mine ordnance clearance and disposal, diving operations, oceanography and maritime training support, offshore pilotage, torpedo recovery and overhaul, ROV and UAV/USV deployment, SAR, submarine supply, etc., can be created on a reliable, modular and common design basis with a lower total procurement cost. This could involve shared infrastructure for many support tasks.

Just like the MILGEM warship infrastructure, for example under the name MILDEG, two/three main common hulls of 50/60 and 70/80 meters, one ocean-going and the other more littoral, could be developed. Except for specific mission equipment and navionics, ships with a mostly common infrastructure can also create a highly flexible capability acquisition with modular joint capabilities, In addition to ease of deployment, training, maintenance and logistics.
 

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Navy has the longest demand list at SSIK, never ceases to amaze me with the requests. A portion of them which related to the platforms;

Mult purpose rescue vessel
Additional Dimdeg
Additional LST
Multi purpose ocean going tug
Research vessel
Mine hunter MLU
National Mine hunter project
Multi purpose heavy frigate
Design revision on TTHB
I’m predicting a multi-purpose heavy frigate design on the TF2000 platform (as in the Milgem like removing long range research radar and putting more VLS etc.)
 

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I’m predicting a multi-purpose heavy frigate design on the TF2000 platform (as in the Milgem like removing long range research radar and putting more VLS etc.)
I agree. To summarize for non-Turkish users of the forum: In 2016, the commander of the shipyard at the time told a newspaper (Milliyet) that the lead ship (Istanbul) would be built by the Pendik shipyard and then the other ships would be tendered to private shipyards as 3+4. In other words, the total planning was stated as 8 MILGEM frigates. Later in the same year, the director of SSM Naval Platforms told DefenceTurk that the tender for 3 ships would be implemented with a model that would include 3 shipyards, in other words, 1+3 ships were mentioned as I class.

After this process, a serious confusion arose due to the processes related to the indigenization of the lead ship, as well as numerous speculations and news in the press and social media. Finally, with some statements and news this year, mostly thanks to DefenceHub, it has been revealed that there is a planning and design activity for another frigate class other than the TF-2000 and the I class; in my opinion, it is gaining weight that this new platform will be a ship with a heavy displacement with a longer endurance and more similar to the TF-2000, rather than a ship like the I class Block-II. I consider the multi-role/modular patrol ships program, which can reach up to 10 ships in total, as one of the situations that support this idea.

I think this new class will form the backbone of the TN's blue navy task forces from the 2030s onwards.
 
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I agree. To summarize for non-Turkish users of the forum: In 2016, the commander of the shipyard at the time told a newspaper (Milliyet) that the lead ship (Istanbul) would be built by the Pendik shipyard and then the other ships would be tendered to private shipyards as 3+4. In other words, the total planning was stated as 8 MILGEM frigates. Later in the same year, the director of SSM Naval Platforms told DefenceTurk that the tender for 3 ships would be implemented with a model that would include 3 shipyards, in other words, 1+3 ships were mentioned as I class.

After this process, a serious confusion arose due to the processes related to the indigenization of the lead ship, as well as numerous speculations and news in the press and social media. Finally, with some statements and news this year, mostly thanks to DefenceHub, it has been revealed that there is a planning and design activity for another frigate class other than the TF-2000 and the I class; in my opinion, it is gaining weight that this new platform will be a ship with a heavy displacement with a longer endurance and more similar to the TF-2000, rather than a ship like the I class Block-II. I consider the multi-role/modular patrol ships program, which can reach up to 10 ships in total, as one of the situations that support this idea.

I think this new class will form the backbone of the TN's blue navy task forces from the 2030s onwards.
TN's blue water task force within 2030s ?!😮
 

Heartbang

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I agree. To summarize for non-Turkish users of the forum: In 2016, the commander of the shipyard at the time told a newspaper (Milliyet) that the lead ship (Istanbul) would be built by the Pendik shipyard and then the other ships would be tendered to private shipyards as 3+4. In other words, the total planning was stated as 8 MILGEM frigates. Later in the same year, the director of SSM Naval Platforms told DefenceTurk that the tender for 3 ships would be implemented with a model that would include 3 shipyards, in other words, 1+3 ships were mentioned as I class.

After this process, a serious confusion arose due to the processes related to the indigenization of the lead ship, as well as numerous speculations and news in the press and social media. Finally, with some statements and news this year, mostly thanks to DefenceHub, it has been revealed that there is a planning and design activity for another frigate class other than the TF-2000 and the I class; in my opinion, it is gaining weight that this new platform will be a ship with a heavy displacement with a longer endurance and more similar to the TF-2000, rather than a ship like the I class Block-II. I consider the multi-role/modular patrol ships program, which can reach up to 10 ships in total, as one of the situations that support this idea.

I think this new class will form the backbone of the TN's blue navy task forces from the 2030s onwards.
are we really going to use a frigate smaller than the TF-2000 as the backbone of our blue water navy?!?! seriously?
if so, this is scuffed af.
 

dBSPL

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TN's blue water task force within 2030s ?!😮
It has been known since the 2000s that there has been planning for a frigate known as the TF-100, but there has been much debate about the direction in which this planning has evolved and even whether it is still valid. The generally accepted match was that it was the platform to replace the Barbaros class, if im not wrong. However, the other issue that have not paid much attention to is that the Turkish navy is preparing to expand its sphere of influence. A design that prioritizes Africa and the Indian Ocean is taking shape. This means expansion pressure for the navy. In addition to doctrine and platform planning in the Littoral Areas/Mediterranean scale, the Turkish navy has also started to shape approaches and platforms that will go beyond the borders of the Mediterranean(area control and power projection). In short, there may not be a dramatic increase in the total number of ships in the main combatant classes, but the total displacement of these ships will increase, so all predecessor classes will be replaced by larger ships.

This has been repeatedly declared by the political will, and the Turkish Naval Forces Strategy has been put forward by both the defense press and various authorities as the goal of becoming a naval force with a medium-scale navy and global power projection capability.

And most importantly, the new Strategy Document of the Turkish Naval Forces, published in 2015, sets out the short-, medium- and long-term goals and vision of the force. In accordance with this vision document, capability gains and preliminary objectives for the acquisition of a blue navy identity until the period 2032-2035 and the objectives for the afterwards are detailed. You can find an evaluation of the document here (turkish): https://www.savunmahaber.com/analiz-turk-deniz-kuvvetleri-stratejisi/

TDGG (Turkish Naval Task Force) and even on platform basis, projects Anadolu LHD, Derya(Marine Supply Combat Support Ship) etc are part of this strategy. As like heavy frigate/destroyer plannings with codes such as TF-2000 (and even TF-100) are an extension of this.
 
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There won't be any 5000ton big I class/new heavy frigate and nothing will be put on the keel before 2030. Open sea patrol ship/patrol corvette, i class, Barbaros Mod, Milgem Mod, TF-2000, FAC project, USV projects TN has enough surface combatant projects for years to come. Private shipyards might come with their offers for export some of them have enough expertise/skills to do that.
 

Afif

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It has been known since the 2000s that there has been planning for a frigate known as the TF-100, but there has been much debate about the direction in which this planning has evolved and even whether it is still valid. The generally accepted match was that it was the platform to replace the Barbaros class, if im not wrong. However, the other issue that have not paid much attention to is that the Turkish navy is preparing to expand its sphere of influence. A design that prioritizes Africa and the Indian Ocean is taking shape. This means expansion pressure for the navy. In addition to doctrine and platform planning in the Littoral Areas/Mediterranean scale, the Turkish navy has also started to shape approaches and platforms that will go beyond the borders of the Mediterranean(area control and power projection). In short, there may not be a dramatic increase in the total number of ships in the main combatant classes, but the total displacement of these ships will increase, so all predecessor classes will be replaced by larger ships.

This has been repeatedly declared by the political will, and the Turkish Naval Forces Strategy has been put forward by both the defense press and various authorities as the goal of becoming a naval force with a medium-scale navy and global power projection capability.

And most importantly, the new Strategy Document of the Turkish Naval Forces, published in 2015, sets out the short-, medium- and long-term goals and vision of the force. In accordance with this vision document, capability gains and preliminary objectives for the acquisition of a blue navy identity until the period 2032-2035 and the objectives for the afterwards are detailed. You can find an evaluation of the document here (turkish): https://www.savunmahaber.com/analiz-turk-deniz-kuvvetleri-stratejisi/

TDGG (Turkish Naval Task Force) and even on platform basis, projects Anadolu LHD, Derya(Marine Supply Combat Support Ship) etc are part of this strategy. As like heavy frigate/destroyer plannings with codes such as TF-2000 (and even TF-100) are an extension of this.
Thank you for your detailed explanation.
I was just kidding!
I understood that, you didn't meant carrier strike group and SSN fleet by 'Blue water task force'.

i already read that article before.
I agree with your evaluation of Turkish Naval strategy in coming decades

Here just my 2 cent of observation on the subject.

I think since 2015/2016 geopolitical and security architecture surrounding Turkish geography quite dramatically changed over the course of last 5/6 years.

What I understand, at that time nato was much more important to Turkish strategic planners both military and and political.

However, now the Ankara's political commitment to nato's importance in Turkish security strategy, is lesser compared to what was at that time for tow fundemental reason.

First and foremost, the continuous hostile geopolitical behaviors of many nato allies toward Turkey concerning variety of turkish national interest in surrounding region of middle east, north africa, Caucasus and europe.

The second and the most important one is, the main threat ( Russian federation ) by which, the nato's very existence has been justified is now quite dramatically fading away.

When it comes to the conventional threat, Russian hard power ( military ) and Russian soft power (economy ) is now hurt so badly by the war in Ukraine, I do not believe Russia will be able to conventionally threaten any medium powers in any meaningful way, at least for next 20 years.

In addition to that, it is also obvious, the more Turkish defence industry will grow, the more turkey will behave independently in its security matters.
We are also observing a new global shift in geopolitical alliance and geoeconomic matter worldwide.
And turkey is trying not to 'miss the train' as it also looking for new, long term strategic alliance and partnership in central and South east asia.
given the fact that, anything fruitful is unlikely to work out anytime soon in its immediate neighborhood of gulf and middle east.

That is of course not to say, NATO will become meaningless! Of course it won't.
It will still occupy a good amount attention in Turkish security planning for decades to come.

So, as far as i understand it, the emergent of a blue water TN task force will have direct hard power impact in the balance of power in the Mediterranean, middles east, north and west African region.

As if similar crisis like Libya breaks out along the african coast, Turkey will be able to respond much more decisively.

However, when it comes to the 'Indian Ocean' I don't think there will be such hard power impact with that particular posture, as it too far away from Turkish mainland.
And more importantly, except for the African coast line of the Indian ocean, other countries of south east Asia are too powerful to be truly intimidated by such task force.
For that, an actual carrier strike group and SSN fleet would be required.

So the way I see it, by 2030s Turkish Naval activities in the Indian ocean will be more like large joint exercise with allied naval forces to assure political and diplomatic commitment.
And maybe, also to build up a functional interoperability with allied navies ( like BD, Malaysia and Indonesia ) for any potential future deployment within a multi national task force in a crisis response.
 
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ADKG , Turkish OPVs Hisar Class ships being built by ASFAT are going to have Hisar -O air defence missiles. These are derived from Ada Class corvettes. Due to modular construction of the ship all sensors and weapons that are meant for these ships will be easily added if and when the need arise. Under normal conditions these ships will have a contingent of limited weapon load.
 

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View attachment 50644
ADKG , Turkish OPVs Hisar Class ships being built by ASFAT are going to have Hisar -O air defence missiles. These are derived from Ada Class corvettes. Due to modular construction of the ship all sensors and weapons that are meant for these ships will be easily added if and when the need arise. Under normal conditions these ships will have a contingent of limited weapon load.
Let's recall this design was presented before several systems were actually developed, Such as Hisar-RF, multi-purpose 35mm etc. So there are things yet to be revealed.
 

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Let's recall this design was presented before several systems were actually developed, Such as Hisar-RF, multi-purpose 35mm etc. So there are things yet to be revealed.
That intrigued me as well. By the time this design is actually built, even Siper should be available. So the choice of Hisar-O is a bit different to what I would have expected. (Unless they are using Hisar-O name as a common name for O and RF versions.)
 

TheInsider

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Hisar-O means the capability to launch Hisar-RF and that means the capability to launch Siper Block I if needed. MAR-D is not enough for Siper but the ship is designed to host Smart-S Mk2 or a radar similar to that class(Cenk-S). The design looks to have enough space to put at least one more 4x Hisar launcher or two inside the weapon area on the middle deck so if shit hits the fan we can arm those ships to the teeth.
 

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