TR Naval Programs

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,508
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,939
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
TF-100 was never I-Class. But let's pretend it is.

You don't simply build first of the optional hulls (either for TF-2000 or I-Class) in the military shipyard. TF-100 was a whole new design in the past, likely split in two and merged to I-Class and TF-2000 projects. Navy has got a way to get 8 more hulls (+4 TF-2000 and +4 I-Class) In place of the TF-100.

Previous formation has been;
4 I-Class (+4 Optional), 4 TF-2000 (+3 Optional) + 4 TF-100, which transformed to;
8 I+Class (+Options), 8 TF-2000 (+Options).

Also notice NG MCMW and NG MHV are separate projects. Dearsan has secured the deal for one of these, for prototype construction and one another will be conceptualized by another company in cooperation with the Navy DPO.

This was the SSB's plan earlier, each first hull of the new designs are to be built in military shipyards, and follow up orders are to be built by private shipyards. All in all TF-100 was a planned new design and let go in the last year.

The table is mostly valid as of 2024.


ships.jpg
 
Last edited:

Radonsider

Contributor
Messages
1,469
Reactions
14 2,804
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Bosnia & Herzegovina
TF-100 was never I-Class. But let's pretend it is.

You don't simply build first of the optional hulls (either for TF-2000 or I-Class) in the military shipyard. TF-100 was a whole new design in the past, likely split in two and merged to I-Class and TF-2000 projects. Navy has got a way to get 8 more hulls (+4 TF-2000 and +4 I-Class) In place of the TF-100.

Previous formation has been;
4 I-Class (+4 Optional), 4 TF-2000 (+3 Optional) + 4 TF-100, which transformed to;
8 I+Class (+Options), 8 TF-2000 (+Options).

Also notice NG MCMW and NG MHV are separate projects. Dearsan has secured the deal for one of these, for prototype construction and one another will be conceptualized by another company in cooperation with the Navy DPO.

This was the SSB's plan earlier, each first hull of the new designs are to be built in military shipyards, and follow up orders are to be built by private shipyards. All in all TF-100 was a planned new design and let go in the last year.

The table is mostly valid as of 2024.


View attachment 71049
Navy with massive planning W again
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,662
Reactions
37 19,796
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
Well considering how we're sending off our AW frigate to Somalia. It's hard to believe that our government has coordinated this move with TN. As such it's paramount that TCG capabilities are raised to be able to safeguard our interest in Mavi Vatan.

I don't see how our Navy has leeway to send off our combat ships like this
 
Last edited:

Fairon

Well-known member
Messages
415
Reactions
6 1,038
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Well considering how we're sending off our AW frigate to Somalia. It's hard to believe that our government has coordinated this move with TN. As such it's paramount that TCG capabilities are raised to be able to safeguard our interest in Mavi Vatan.

I don't see how our Navy has leeway to send off our combat ships like this

I think Navy would want that deployement though even the goverment didn't coordinated with them first. Our Navy wants to extends their reach and this will be a perfect experience for them and because of that I think Navy was in the decision making for this move.
 
Last edited:

somegoodusername

Committed member
Messages
225
Reactions
2 378
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I think Navy would want that deployement though even the goverment didn't coordinated with them first. Our Navy wants to extends their reach and this will be a perfect experience for them and because of that I think Navy was in the decision making for this move.
You don't extend your reach when your mainland is in danger. They sent seismic research ship 5000 km away from the East Med to please Greeks and Americans.
 

uçuyorum

Contributor
Messages
951
Reactions
13 1,562
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
To be fair the Somalia operation is more likely to hurt Libya operations than mainland defense. Air defense provided by 2x Gabya class is nothing when you consider size of Turkey.
 

godel44

Active member
Messages
142
Reactions
8 457
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
You don't extend your reach when your mainland is in danger. They sent seismic research ship 5000 km away from the East Med to please Greeks and Americans.
The news that Turkey will explore oil and gas in Somalian waters has upset certain countries a lot and it is their extensions within Turkey that object, ostensibly due to security concerns which is of course nonsense. Security of the homeland did not rely on those two frigates and natural resources off Somalia are a great financial opportunity for Turkey.
 

Iskander

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
488
Reactions
10 1,359
Nation of residence
Azerbaijan
Nation of origin
Azerbaijan
The German government has approved arms exports to Turkey, including 100 RAM anti-aircraft missiles and 28 SeaHake torpedoes for the country's navy, Der Spiegel writes.

The value of the deliveries will be about €336 million. This is the first large-scale arms export to Turkey in many years. Over the past few years, Berlin has been reducing the volume of such deals with Ankara, the publication notes.

Der Spiegel estimated the cost of the missiles and torpedoes at about €256 million. Germany will supply Turkey with materials for the modernization of submarines for another €79 million. The export of engines for Turkish corvettes and frigates for €1.9 million has also been approved, - Azerbaijani website reports Haqqin az.

 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,508
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,939
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
The German government has approved arms exports to Turkey, including 100 RAM anti-aircraft missiles and 28 SeaHake torpedoes for the country's navy, Der Spiegel writes.

The value of the deliveries will be about €336 million. This is the first large-scale arms export to Turkey in many years. Over the past few years, Berlin has been reducing the volume of such deals with Ankara, the publication notes.

Der Spiegel estimated the cost of the missiles and torpedoes at about €256 million. Germany will supply Turkey with materials for the modernization of submarines for another €79 million. The export of engines for Turkish corvettes and frigates for €1.9 million has also been approved, - Azerbaijani website reports Haqqin az.

Seems like both US and Germany governments need to approve RAM sales. Germany could have been the obstacle for almost a decade.

$1.9M for the engine spares, man they have been embargoeing spares which they have been providing to Russia and China. Such a NATO ally.

Also, the original source;
 
Last edited:

Osman

Committed member
Messages
270
Reactions
6 527
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
@Anmdt, what about mk 48 torpedoes requested by Türkiye? As far as I know something like 50 torpedoes have been demanded but none of them came yet
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,508
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,939
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
@Anmdt, what about mk 48 torpedoes requested by Türkiye? As far as I know something like 50 torpedoes have been demanded but none of them came yet
Torpedo deliveries often take time but i don't know much. The request was submitted-approved in 2014, not sure when it came to effect, and on top of that add 10 years.
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,259
Reactions
143 16,350
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
The German government has approved arms exports to Turkey, including 100 RAM anti-aircraft missiles and 28 SeaHake torpedoes for the country's navy, Der Spiegel writes.
The whole purpose of Akya torpedo was to replace the ageing DM2A4 (Seahake) torpedoes. So why are we still trying to buy these from Germany?

1728304538008.jpeg

According to Naval News Akya already proved itself by sinking it’s target in a test firing in December 2023.
After this test with the real warhead, AKYA HWT achieved initial operational capability.
It is confusing that we are still after a foreign weapon that we and most of our adversaries know the details of .


 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,382
Reactions
82 10,910
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
The whole purpose of Akya torpedo was to replace the ageing DM2A4 (Seahake) torpedoes. So why are we still trying to buy these from Germany?


According to Naval News Akya already proved itself by sinking it’s target in a test firing in December 2023.
After this test with the real warhead, AKYA HWT achieved initial operational capability.
It is confusing that we are still after a foreign weapon that we and most of our adversaries know the details of .


"Reis-class submarines, which will be equipped with the DM2A4 heavy torpedo and UGM-84A anti-ship missile in the first phase, will soon be equipped with the Akya heavy torpedo and Atmaca anti-ship missile produced by ROKETSAN, as well as the Gezgin cruise missile."

Reis Class is not coming with base Akya capability. DM2 is a torpedo we know and use for decades.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,508
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,939
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
The whole purpose of Akya torpedo was to replace the ageing DM2A4 (Seahake) torpedoes. So why are we still trying to buy these from Germany?

View attachment 71062
According to Naval News Akya already proved itself by sinking it’s target in a test firing in December 2023.
After this test with the real warhead, AKYA HWT achieved initial operational capability.
It is confusing that we are still after a foreign weapon that we and most of our adversaries know the details of .


I don't think production rates match to the modernization of the munitions and related stocks. It is hard to produce torpedoes en-masse. Even US has rather low production rates for what we call serial production.

"Reis-class submarines, which will be equipped with the DM2A4 heavy torpedo and UGM-84A anti-ship missile in the first phase, will soon be equipped with the Akya heavy torpedo and Atmaca anti-ship missile produced by ROKETSAN, as well as the Gezgin cruise missile."

Reis Class is not coming with base Akya capability. DM2 is a torpedo we know and use for decades.
+ I also don't think we will be producing 10 AKYA in a year anytime soon.
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,382
Reactions
82 10,910
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I don't think production rates match to the modernization of the munitions and related stocks. It is hard to produce torpedoes en-masse. Even US has rather low production rates for what we call serial production.


+ I also don't think we will be producing 10 AKYA in a year anytime soon.
We'll pay 5.5 million € each for 26 torpedoes. Wonder if we'll ever learn Akya's unit cost. No way it doesn't cost more with the production numbers we'll have in the first decade. Self reliability is more expensive, something we're learning still.

And better question, where's Orka...

Waiting for Orka...
 

boredaf

Contributor
Messages
1,429
Solutions
1
Reactions
17 4,001
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Self reliability is more expensive, something we're learning still.
Just wait until people hear what the cost of operation an aircraft carrier is going to be (on top of its design + construction) and how much Kaan's flights will cost 🥲
 
Last edited:

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,259
Reactions
143 16,350
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Reis Class is not coming with base Akya capability. DM2 is a torpedo we know and use for decades.
That is shortsightedness. What would we have done if we had no DM2A4 to furnish the Reis Class with?
When US stopped the sale of MK41 VLS, we built our own VLS; namely MIDLAS.
Besides as well as “us” knowing this torpedo “well”, so do our adversaries. So they probably already devised defence procedures against it. Akya, on the other hand, is a closed box.

I agree with your question on Orka. That is a real game changer weapon. It can be deployed from air as well as from USVs. The sooner we have it in our inventory the better.

That is Meltem with lightweight torpedoes.
1728306601551.jpeg


That is a Seahawk helicopter deploying a lightweight torpedo.

1728306819857.jpeg


That is a USV with a torpedo

1728307025242.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,382
Reactions
82 10,910
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
That is shortsightedness. What would we have done if we had no DM2A4 to furnish the Reis Class with?
When US stopped the sale of MK41 VLS, we built our own VLS; namely MIDLAS.
Besides as well as “us” knowing this torpedo “well”, so do our adversaries. So they probably already devised defence procedures against it. Akya, on the other hand, is a closed box.
Akya is in development for close to a decade if not more already, it was always the plan to have it replace our older torpedoes, and then DM2A4. We have much older torpedoes in service than the D4 that should be replaced beforehand. Much older SST4s were used in a SINKEX as late as 2018, As far as I know, Tigerfish should still also be in use. I don't think the plan was ever to replace all of them together.

On Orka, we already use American lightweight torpedoes like Mk 46 and Mk 54, so while a modern LWT would increased capabilities and cut our dependency, it wouldn't be a game changer.

And then there's the TORK anti torpedo torpedo, of which we haven't heard anything for at least 5 years.

 

boredaf

Contributor
Messages
1,429
Solutions
1
Reactions
17 4,001
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
I agree with your question on Orka. That is a real game changer weapon. It can be deployed from air as well as from USVs. The sooner we have it in our inventory the better.
I just want to see an USV that can travel just under the surface, except for antennas/cameras/whatever etc, and carry 2/4 Orkas, is that too much to ask?
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom