TR Naval Programs

[uçuyorum]

wait what are you talking about?

Kargı, in response to brave janissary

 

[Anmdt]

TF-100 was never I-Class. But let's pretend it is.

You don't simply build first of the optional hulls (either for TF-2000 or I-Class) in the military shipyard. TF-100 was a whole new design in the past, likely split in two and merged to I-Class and TF-2000 projects. Navy has got a way to get 8 more hulls (+4 TF-2000 and +4 I-Class) In place of the TF-100.

Previous formation has been;
4 I-Class (+4 Optional), 4 TF-2000 (+3 Optional) + 4 TF-100, which transformed to;
8 I+Class (+Options), 8 TF-2000 (+Options).

Also notice NG MCMW and NG MHV are separate projects. Dearsan has secured the deal for one of these, for prototype construction and one another will be conceptualized by another company in cooperation with the Navy DPO.

This was the SSB's plan earlier, each first hull of the new designs are to be built in military shipyards, and follow up orders are to be built by private shipyards. All in all TF-100 was a planned new design and let go in the last year.

The table is mostly valid as of 2024.

 

[Radonsider]

TF-100 was never I-Class. But let's pretend it is.

You don't simply build first of the optional hulls (either for TF-2000 or I-Class) in the military shipyard. TF-100 was a whole new design in the past, likely split in two and merged to I-Class and TF-2000 projects. Navy has got a way to get 8 more hulls (+4 TF-2000 and +4 I-Class) In place of the TF-100.

Previous formation has been;
4 I-Class (+4 Optional), 4 TF-2000 (+3 Optional) + 4 TF-100, which transformed to;
8 I+Class (+Options), 8 TF-2000 (+Options).

Also notice NG MCMW and NG MHV are separate projects. Dearsan has secured the deal for one of these, for prototype construction and one another will be conceptualized by another company in cooperation with the Navy DPO.

This was the SSB's plan earlier, each first hull of the new designs are to be built in military shipyards, and follow up orders are to be built by private shipyards. All in all TF-100 was a planned new design and let go in the last year.

The table is mostly valid as of 2024.


View attachment 71049

Navy with massive planning W again

 

[Saithan]

Well considering how we're sending off our AW frigate to Somalia. It's hard to believe that our government has coordinated this move with TN. As such it's paramount that TCG capabilities are raised to be able to safeguard our interest in Mavi Vatan.

I don't see how our Navy has leeway to send off our combat ships like this

 

[Fairon]

Well considering how we're sending off our AW frigate to Somalia. It's hard to believe that our government has coordinated this move with TN. As such it's paramount that TCG capabilities are raised to be able to safeguard our interest in Mavi Vatan.

I don't see how our Navy has leeway to send off our combat ships like this

I think Navy would want that deployement though even the goverment didn't coordinated with them first. Our Navy wants to extends their reach and this will be a perfect experience for them and because of that I think Navy was in the decision making for this move.

 

[somegoodusername]

I think Navy would want that deployement though even the goverment didn't coordinated with them first. Our Navy wants to extends their reach and this will be a perfect experience for them and because of that I think Navy was in the decision making for this move.

You don't extend your reach when your mainland is in danger. They sent seismic research ship 5000 km away from the East Med to please Greeks and Americans.

 

[uçuyorum]

To be fair the Somalia operation is more likely to hurt Libya operations than mainland defense. Air defense provided by 2x Gabya class is nothing when you consider size of Turkey.

 

[godel44]

You don't extend your reach when your mainland is in danger. They sent seismic research ship 5000 km away from the East Med to please Greeks and Americans.

The news that Turkey will explore oil and gas in Somalian waters has upset certain countries a lot and it is their extensions within Turkey that object, ostensibly due to security concerns which is of course nonsense. Security of the homeland did not rely on those two frigates and natural resources off Somalia are a great financial opportunity for Turkey.

 

[Iskander]

The German government has approved arms exports to Turkey, including 100 RAM anti-aircraft missiles and 28 SeaHake torpedoes for the country's navy, Der Spiegel writes.

The value of the deliveries will be about €336 million. This is the first large-scale arms export to Turkey in many years. Over the past few years, Berlin has been reducing the volume of such deals with Ankara, the publication notes.

Der Spiegel estimated the cost of the missiles and torpedoes at about €256 million. Germany will supply Turkey with materials for the modernization of submarines for another €79 million. The export of engines for Turkish corvettes and frigates for €1.9 million has also been approved, - Azerbaijani website reports Haqqin az.

Германия разрешила экспорт оружия в Турцию

haqqin.az

 

[Anmdt]

The German government has approved arms exports to Turkey, including 100 RAM anti-aircraft missiles and 28 SeaHake torpedoes for the country's navy, Der Spiegel writes.

The value of the deliveries will be about €336 million. This is the first large-scale arms export to Turkey in many years. Over the past few years, Berlin has been reducing the volume of such deals with Ankara, the publication notes.

Der Spiegel estimated the cost of the missiles and torpedoes at about €256 million. Germany will supply Turkey with materials for the modernization of submarines for another €79 million. The export of engines for Turkish corvettes and frigates for €1.9 million has also been approved, - Azerbaijani website reports Haqqin az.

Германия разрешила экспорт оружия в Турцию

haqqin.az

Seems like both US and Germany governments need to approve RAM sales. Germany could have been the obstacle for almost a decade.

$1.9M for the engine spares, man they have been embargoeing spares which they have been providing to Russia and China. Such a NATO ally.

Also, the original source;

Türkei: Ampelregierung genehmigt wieder Waffenexporte

In den vergangenen Jahren reduzierte die Bundesregierung Rüstungsdeals mit der Türkei drastisch. Nach SPIEGEL-Informationen deutet sich nun ein Kurswechsel an. Auf einen Schlag wurden Projekte für mehr als 250 Millionen Euro durchgewunken.

www.spiegel.de

 

[Osman]

@Anmdt, what about mk 48 torpedoes requested by Türkiye? As far as I know something like 50 torpedoes have been demanded but none of them came yet

 

[Anmdt]

@Anmdt, what about mk 48 torpedoes requested by Türkiye? As far as I know something like 50 torpedoes have been demanded but none of them came yet

Torpedo deliveries often take time but i don't know much. The request was submitted-approved in 2014, not sure when it came to effect, and on top of that add 10 years.

 

[Yasar_TR]

The German government has approved arms exports to Turkey, including 100 RAM anti-aircraft missiles and 28 SeaHake torpedoes for the country's navy, Der Spiegel writes.

The whole purpose of Akya torpedo was to replace the ageing DM2A4 (Seahake) torpedoes. So why are we still trying to buy these from Germany?

According to Naval News Akya already proved itself by sinking it’s target in a test firing in December 2023.
After this test with the real warhead, AKYA HWT achieved initial operational capability.
It is confusing that we are still after a foreign weapon that we and most of our adversaries know the details of .

SINKEX: Turkiye's first indigenous heavyweight torpedo AKYA sinks target at live test - Naval News

On Dec. 27, 2023, the Turkish Navy successfully carried out the first live firing test of the AKYA HWT with a real warhead in the East Med.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Sanchez]

The whole purpose of Akya torpedo was to replace the ageing DM2A4 (Seahake) torpedoes. So why are we still trying to buy these from Germany?


According to Naval News Akya already proved itself by sinking it’s target in a test firing in December 2023.
After this test with the real warhead, AKYA HWT achieved initial operational capability.
It is confusing that we are still after a foreign weapon that we and most of our adversaries know the details of .

SINKEX: Turkiye's first indigenous heavyweight torpedo AKYA sinks target at live test - Naval News

On Dec. 27, 2023, the Turkish Navy successfully carried out the first live firing test of the AKYA HWT with a real warhead in the East Med.

www.navalnews.com

"Reis-class submarines, which will be equipped with the DM2A4 heavy torpedo and UGM-84A anti-ship missile in the first phase, will soon be equipped with the Akya heavy torpedo and Atmaca anti-ship missile produced by ROKETSAN, as well as the Gezgin cruise missile."

Reis Sınıfı Denizaltılar

Yeni Tip Denizaltı Projesi (o zamanki adıyla Cerbe Sınıfı Denizaltı Projesi), 22 Haziran 2015 tarihinde yapılan Savunma Sanayi İcra Komitesi

mavivatan.net

Reis Class is not coming with base Akya capability. DM2 is a torpedo we know and use for decades.

 

[Anmdt]

The whole purpose of Akya torpedo was to replace the ageing DM2A4 (Seahake) torpedoes. So why are we still trying to buy these from Germany?

View attachment 71062
According to Naval News Akya already proved itself by sinking it’s target in a test firing in December 2023.
After this test with the real warhead, AKYA HWT achieved initial operational capability.
It is confusing that we are still after a foreign weapon that we and most of our adversaries know the details of .

SINKEX: Turkiye's first indigenous heavyweight torpedo AKYA sinks target at live test - Naval News

On Dec. 27, 2023, the Turkish Navy successfully carried out the first live firing test of the AKYA HWT with a real warhead in the East Med.

www.navalnews.com

I don't think production rates match to the modernization of the munitions and related stocks. It is hard to produce torpedoes en-masse. Even US has rather low production rates for what we call serial production.

"Reis-class submarines, which will be equipped with the DM2A4 heavy torpedo and UGM-84A anti-ship missile in the first phase, will soon be equipped with the Akya heavy torpedo and Atmaca anti-ship missile produced by ROKETSAN, as well as the Gezgin cruise missile."

Reis Sınıfı Denizaltılar

Yeni Tip Denizaltı Projesi (o zamanki adıyla Cerbe Sınıfı Denizaltı Projesi), 22 Haziran 2015 tarihinde yapılan Savunma Sanayi İcra Komitesi

mavivatan.net

Reis Class is not coming with base Akya capability. DM2 is a torpedo we know and use for decades.

+ I also don't think we will be producing 10 AKYA in a year anytime soon.

 

[Sanchez]

I don't think production rates match to the modernization of the munitions and related stocks. It is hard to produce torpedoes en-masse. Even US has rather low production rates for what we call serial production.


+ I also don't think we will be producing 10 AKYA in a year anytime soon.

We'll pay 5.5 million € each for 26 torpedoes. Wonder if we'll ever learn Akya's unit cost. No way it doesn't cost more with the production numbers we'll have in the first decade. Self reliability is more expensive, something we're learning still.

And better question, where's Orka...

Waiting for Orka...

 

[boredaf]

Self reliability is more expensive, something we're learning still.

Just wait until people hear what the cost of operation an aircraft carrier is going to be (on top of its design + construction) and how much Kaan's flights will cost

 

[Yasar_TR]

Reis Class is not coming with base Akya capability. DM2 is a torpedo we know and use for decades.

That is shortsightedness. What would we have done if we had no DM2A4 to furnish the Reis Class with?
When US stopped the sale of MK41 VLS, we built our own VLS; namely MIDLAS.
Besides as well as “us” knowing this torpedo “well”, so do our adversaries. So they probably already devised defence procedures against it. Akya, on the other hand, is a closed box.

I agree with your question on Orka. That is a real game changer weapon. It can be deployed from air as well as from USVs. The sooner we have it in our inventory the better.

That is Meltem with lightweight torpedoes.

That is a Seahawk helicopter deploying a lightweight torpedo.

That is a USV with a torpedo

 

[Sanchez]

That is shortsightedness. What would we have done if we had no DM2A4 to furnish the Reis Class with?
When US stopped the sale of MK41 VLS, we built our own VLS; namely MIDLAS.
Besides as well as “us” knowing this torpedo “well”, so do our adversaries. So they probably already devised defence procedures against it. Akya, on the other hand, is a closed box.

Akya is in development for close to a decade if not more already, it was always the plan to have it replace our older torpedoes, and then DM2A4. We have much older torpedoes in service than the D4 that should be replaced beforehand. Much older SST4s were used in a SINKEX as late as 2018, As far as I know, Tigerfish should still also be in use. I don't think the plan was ever to replace all of them together.

On Orka, we already use American lightweight torpedoes like Mk 46 and Mk 54, so while a modern LWT would increased capabilities and cut our dependency, it wouldn't be a game changer.

And then there's the TORK anti torpedo torpedo, of which we haven't heard anything for at least 5 years.

TORK - ASELSAN

www.aselsan.com

 

[boredaf]

I agree with your question on Orka. That is a real game changer weapon. It can be deployed from air as well as from USVs. The sooner we have it in our inventory the better.

I just want to see an USV that can travel just under the surface, except for antennas/cameras/whatever etc, and carry 2/4 Orkas, is that too much to ask?