TR Naval Programs

[Knowledgeseeker]

Not the subsystems but the project managements, the project budgets are allocated one by one, thus orders made one by one, the contract stage keeps getting longer. You can not compare anyone to china, a country which allocates budget of flotilla at once and orders everything necessary at once. Their technique is not feasible to anyone but only them.

Ah the budget is allocated one by one. Shit that explains alot. So basically they make one istif class frigate and when they done they continue to the next one. I tought they where building everyone at the same time, but just that they lack the experience, and some systems.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Ah the budget is allocated one by one. Shit that explains alot. So basically they make one istif class frigate and when they done they continue to the next one. I tought they where building everyone at the same time, but just that they lack the experience, and some systems.

That is not entirely true!
5 Reis class 214 submarines were all being produced more or less together. First one is now in the sea, waiting to be delivered following latest tests. The 6th one is being put on production line, end of this year.
After F-515, I-Class’s first ship, the remaining 3 will be produced in quick successions (1 per year) as all sub-systems and new indigenous weapons will be ready and tested.
Also, as these ships are being produced, technology used on them evolves. Our navy may want some of this new tech to be included in the next ship in line. That may put the brakes on the schedule. Also sanctions and embargoes by our “allies” don’t help the timescale programmed.
But in general production is planned and budgeted as 1 ship at a time even if all 4 ships are on production line at any one time. (So it is NOT like, produce first one, finish , deliver then start on the next)
One has to remember that Turkey has financial constraints too. So a strict budget has to be adhered to. We are not a rich country with endless supply of oil and/or gas.

 

[Anmdt]

That is not entirely true!
5 Reis class 214 submarines were all being produced more or less together. First one is now in the sea, waiting to be delivered following latest tests. The 6th one is being put on production line, end of this year.
After F-515, I-Class’s first ship, the remaining 3 will be produced in quick successions (1 per year) as all sub-systems and new indigenous weapons will be ready and tested.
Also, as these ships are being produced, technology used on them evolves. Our navy may want some of this new tech to be included in the next ship in line. That may put the brakes on the schedule.
But in general production is planned and budgeted as 1 ship at a time even if all 4 ships are on production line at any one time. (So it is NOT like, produce first one, finish , deliver then start on the next)
One has to remember that Turkey has financial constraints too. So a strict budget has to be adhered to. We are not a rich country with endless supply of oil and/or gas.

It was maily because the project of each hull is commenced one by one which restarts the procurements and orders for the hull as well. That means getting in the queue for some equipment from the end or wait for those to be produced by local suppliers.
Yes, the budget of a project is never given at once as cash, especially when it is multi hundred millions, but the amount is ' allocated ' for use. That means it is given when subcontractor reachs to a stage that is mutually agreed.
However Reis class is commenced at once for all 6 hulls. Which explains why it goes rather smooth. The necessary agremeents are made with suppliers so they adjust and supplies their parts according to the schedule.
In other words, it explains why it will be slow for I-Class. Technically the shipyard should have started steel cutting of the 2nd hull and it should have been erected on slip way, but it is not happening because it is not even commenced on project level yet.
All we can hope for them to start a serial production agreement for some hulls, allocated the money and we can see it accelerates to normal speeds that we can see in other projects.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Turkish independence in naval systems: two new torpedoes from Roketsan - EDR Magazine

By Paolo Valpolini Attack systems are definitely among those that might be most easily submitted to embargo, hence the decision

www.edrmagazine.eu

Interesting article on our two new torpedoes.
Akya, already started serial production, will be operational gradually on all relevant surface assets of Turkish navy, starting from next year.
Okra, the light weight version, even though in design stage, should not take too long to produce as the experience attained developing Akya will expedite matters. This new one , even though can be used on other surface vessels, will be specifically targeting submarines and will be launched from surface or aerial platforms including UAVs.

 

[Kartal1]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432317830305914882

 

[Saithan]

IDEF 2021: Turkish industry unveils three new submarine designs - Naval News

At IDEF 2021, Turkish company STM unveiled the STM500 and TS17000 submarine designs while Dearsan unveiled a "light submarine" design.

www.navalnews.com

Nice piece by Naval News.

Author’s comment

The conceptual studies conducted by the companies are the result of the knowledge gained from the indigenous trend in the Turkish defense industry. Such “what if” studies would enrich the design database and provide more options to the decision maker when the time comes…


Thanks to their small size, mini submarines are extremely effective assets in littoral waters. In the course of anti-submarine warfare operations, it is extremely difficult to locate and destroy an adversary submarine in the littoral waters. The reason for this is that the performance of the sonars in such an environment is significantly reduced as a result of the background noise. Despite having less endurance and operational range than larger submarines, mini submarines would be even more difficult to detect than larger submarines. Because they have a smaller acoustic and magnetic signature, they are more effective.


As a result, the Turkish Navy could deploy a flotilla of mini-submarines in the Aegean Sea to provide a more effective solution in the region. The mini subs would be able to penetrate beyond the opponent’s lines and gather intelligence. Mini submarines are also excellent options for missions requiring high levels of confidentiality, such as special forces operations, mining critical areas, and so on.

With regard to the progress of building Naval Vessels, I hope that the 10 Ada class that are going to be built regardless of armaments will be spread out to other shipyards as well so we can increase the delivery of vessels.

 

[Combat-Master]

IDEF 2021: Turkish industry unveils three new submarine designs - Naval News

At IDEF 2021, Turkish company STM unveiled the STM500 and TS17000 submarine designs while Dearsan unveiled a "light submarine" design.

www.navalnews.com

Nice piece by Naval News.



With regard to the progress of building Naval Vessels, I hope that the 10 Ada class that are going to be built regardless of armaments will be spread out to other shipyards as well so we can increase the delivery of vessels.

Would be nice if every viable shipyard could get in on the action by producing blocks of the hulls, then transporting them to a single location for assembly. Hell, even shipyards on the black sea and Mediterranean could get in on the action.

 

[Nilgiri]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1432317830305914882

First 10 minutes or so is about the new turkish sub designs and IDEF (using naval news article), might be interesting to listen to for members here:

 

[Combat-Master]

Them some thic cables/hoses

 

[Saithan]

Turkish Navy’s Guided Missile Ships with Projections to 2030 – Bahriye Enstitüsü

This study investigates the change in the number of guided-missile ships of the Turkish Navy between the years 2000 and 2030, and touches on the procurement plans.

bahriyeenstitusu.org

Are the decomissioning dates reliable or should some 5 years be added ? Imo it depends on how fast the keel of the 10 Ada class are laid.

 

[TurDef]

Turkish Defence Industry Executive Committee is expected to be held on Sept 15th. The first problem, it is not 100 % confirmed. It can be postponed. Everyone waits for the TF-2000 air defence destroyer programme to come to the decision table. I learned that it will not be. It has to wait its turn. There are three MILGEM ships, the I class frigates that expect the decision. The SSB will provide the options and SSIK will decide either for one or three vessels.

New MILGEM I is on the Agenda

Presidency of Defence Industries (SSB) prepares to begin a tender for MILGEM I class Frigate construction. Within the MILGEM programme, four ADA Class Corvette are already built, and one I class frigate is under construction. Three more I class frigates are expected.

www.turdef.com

 

[Anmdt]

Turkish Defence Industry Executive Committee is expected to be held on Sept 15th. The first problem, it is not 100 % confirmed. It can be postponed. Everyone waits for the TF-2000 air defence destroyer programme to come to the decision table. I learned that it will not be. It has to wait its turn. There are three MILGEM ships, the I class frigates that expect the decision. The SSB will provide the options and SSIK will decide either for one or three vessels.

New MILGEM I is on the Agenda

Presidency of Defence Industries (SSB) prepares to begin a tender for MILGEM I class Frigate construction. Within the MILGEM programme, four ADA Class Corvette are already built, and one I class frigate is under construction. Three more I class frigates are expected.

www.turdef.com

Naval office is already handing out the engineering jobs, it means the Navy is funding TF-2000 through some R&D or modernization funds for the beginning - contract design stage.
Probably they will opt for I-Class initially and TF-2000 will be approved in the next one.

 

[Yasar_TR]

SSB İsmail Demir: SÜRÜ İDA’ları devreye almaya çalışıyoruz

Savunma Sanayii Başkanı Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir; 6 Eylül 2021 tarihinde TRT Haber canlı yayınına katılarak Türk savunma sanayii hakkındaki

www.defenceturk.net

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424650873175777281

Within the scope of “Swarm IDA project” (Suru Insansiz Deniz Araci) the SSB has been working hard to put in to action, the first group of these unmanned Sea Vessels.
They will have both NLOS and LOS control availability and will be able to operate autonomously as well as from a control centre.

 

[Yasar_TR]

AKYA Ağır Torpido “devreye sokuluyor”

SSB Başkanı Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir, TEKNOFEST 2021 Roket Yarışması'nda TEKNOFEST'in savunma sanayi için önemi ve geliştirme çalışmaları devam eden

www.defenceturk.net

Akya heavy torpedo is becoming part of the naval inventory

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353640543960633344

 

[TheInsider]

Turkish Defence Industry Executive Committee is expected to be held on Sept 15th. The first problem, it is not 100 % confirmed. It can be postponed. Everyone waits for the TF-2000 air defence destroyer programme to come to the decision table. I learned that it will not be. It has to wait its turn. There are three MILGEM ships, the I class frigates that expect the decision. The SSB will provide the options and SSIK will decide either for one or three vessels.

New MILGEM I is on the Agenda

Presidency of Defence Industries (SSB) prepares to begin a tender for MILGEM I class Frigate construction. Within the MILGEM programme, four ADA Class Corvette are already built, and one I class frigate is under construction. Three more I class frigates are expected.

www.turdef.com

I heard something different. There are two bidders one of them is Dearsan and the other is the Sedef-Istanbul Tersanesi consortium.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Hey. i want to hear more about turkish navy ships. I have understood that turkish defence technology is pretty good in what they already make, and that they follow the technology simmilar to the west because of previous expertise within for example F16 program by TAI in the late 1900s. How good is the quality of the turkish corvettes, and frigates. Now im talking about ada class corvette, and the upcoming f515 I- class frigate compared to the west ( Italy/US/German), and the russians/chinese?

 

[Huelague]

Turkish Defence Industry Executive Committee is expected to be held on Sept 15th. The first problem, it is not 100 % confirmed. It can be postponed. Everyone waits for the TF-2000 air defence destroyer programme to come to the decision table. I learned that it will not be. It has to wait its turn. There are three MILGEM ships, the I class frigates that expect the decision. The SSB will provide the options and SSIK will decide either for one or three vessels.

New MILGEM I is on the Agenda

Presidency of Defence Industries (SSB) prepares to begin a tender for MILGEM I class Frigate construction. Within the MILGEM programme, four ADA Class Corvette are already built, and one I class frigate is under construction. Three more I class frigates are expected.

www.turdef.com

Maybe FETO slowing down the project.

 

[Yasar_TR]

@Knowledgeseeker
I-Class and Ada Class belong to Milgem group of ships. They are stealthy and very adaptable ships. They can house most modern radars, weapons and VLS missiles.
Turkish ship building has improved greatly. These ships are at least at the same level of their western equivalents. As corvettes go; I don’t think you will find another ship that is as adaptable and better performing than the Ada Class at the price. Plus Turkey shares know how of building these with friendly countries and close allies.
The gun used on both ships has an Aselsan fire control system with which it can hit air targets. Most sub systems are indigenously produced. CIWS, RAM derivatives, Long range anti ship missiles are all locally sourced. All electronics, radars too are domestic. Radar technology has improved a lot in Turkey. These ships can have Aesa based radars with GaN technology if needed.
The ships are produced in line with NATO standards. Now with locally produced heavy and light torpedoes the ships have become even deadlier. Both ASUW and ASW performance are exemplary. The naval helicopter they carry can and will be using Turkish built rockets and MRAShMs.
Adaptation of Turkish built air defence missiles via locally produced VLS to I-Class is going on. I-Class is a light weight small frigate. But holds a good amount of punch!

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

@Knowledgeseeker
I-Class and Ada Class belong to Milgem group of ships. They are stealthy and very adaptable ships. They can house most modern radars, weapons and VLS missiles.
Turkish ship building has improved greatly. These ships are at least at the same level of their western equivalents. As corvettes go; I don’t think you will find another ship that is as adaptable and better performing than the Ada Class at the price. Plus Turkey shares know how of building these with friendly countries and close allies.
The gun used on both ships has an Aselsan fire control system with which it can hit air targets. Most sub systems are indigenously produced. CIWS, RAM derivatives, Long range anti ship missiles are all locally sourced. All electronics, radars too are domestic. Radar technology has improved a lot in Turkey. These ships can have Aesa based radars with GaN technology if needed.
The ships are produced in line with NATO standards. Now with locally produced heavy and light torpedoes the ships have become even deadlier. Both ASUW and ASW performance are exemplary. The naval helicopter they carry can and will be using Turkish built rockets and MRAShMs.
Adaptation of Turkish built air defence missiles via locally produced VLS to I-Class is going on. I-Class is a light weight small frigate. But holds a good amount of punch!

Nice sounds great! I forgot completely that the Istanbull class frigate is a light weight. Will it not weight 3 000 tons compared to ada who have a weight of 2400 tons? I guess the tf-2000 will be a heavy frigate/destroyer of 8500 tons. When it comes to the price the ada class cost 250 million each per ship right? Thats a good price! i read that in 2008 morocco ordered 3 sigma corvettes for 1.2 billion... I understand now that turkish ships are produced in line with nato standard, so how would you compare the turkish navy ships with the chinese and russians ships?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Nice sounds great! I forgot completely that the Istanbull class frigate is a light weight. Will it not weight 3 000 tons compared to ada who have a weight of 2400 tons? I guess the tf-2000 will be a heavy frigate/destroyer of 8500 tons. When it comes to the price the ada class cost 250 million each per ship right? Thats a good price! i read that in 2008 morocco ordered 3 sigma corvettes for 1.2 billion... I understand now that turkish ships are produced in line with nato standard, so how would you compare the turkish navy ships with the chinese and russians ships?

Simple answer would be:
I wouldn’t !
Western and Eastern tech are quite different.
Many plusses and minuses.