TR Naval Programs

UkroTurk

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Turkish Navy's aim seems flag waving and control the water. I think they would prefer more seakeeping capabilities with reasonable costs instead of weapon loads . They aren't fancy of heavily armed or stealth frigates.
 

Sanchez

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Then there should be not only 3, but 3+3 parallel production for the İstif class. That is, 2025-26 launching the first 3 frigates, 2027-2028 launching the second three, batch-II frigates. The targeted schedule for the TF-2000 lead ship is already around 2027-2028. In short, what I want to say is that we need to put between TF-2000 and I-class a block before the TF-2000 mass production, which we can realize the fastest through the I-class. TF-100 heavy frigate? It could be last step after first 4 destroyer.

For the first time since the most frightening period of the Cold War, the risks are rising frighteningly high again, the region is boiling, small states have collapsed and a new phase is underway, there is a huge list of urgent military needs and new frigates are on that list.
Hard agree. Even thinking about building a carrier with help from UK at at least 40k tonnes when our frigates are speedily getting outdated is absurd.
 

dBSPL

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Hard agree. Even thinking about building a carrier with help from UK at at least 40k tonnes when our frigates are speedily getting outdated is absurd.
I find it positive and support the deepening of defense cooperation especially with Spain and Italy, and secondarily with the UK. However, if we have not yet reached the industrial maturity to develop an construct aircraft carriers directly, I don't see the need to push for it. The cost of engineering services and possible package systems to be purchased from the UK will bring the product development cost of that ship closer to the production costs standards in Europe. The President has repeatedly expressed this dream, but even in our history there is a great deal of experience of how such untimely dreams have produced results.

If the goal is to increase the number of strategic assets, I think the priority should be under the sea, not area dominance and force projection in distant seas that currently beyond of Turkish navy's combatant capacity.

edit: My idea is related to the position that the Turkish state is trying to position itself within NATO in the new era. If we are pursuing a more autonomous and independent policy, our naval force structure should be capable of using its full capabilities independently.
 
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Saithan

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I do not believe those dreams are much realistic unless we want to keep the economy in crippled state.

I think retaining and improving on our Navy is necessary, but not going overboard is more important. I think Hürjet and KAAN by themselves would produce the results we need.

All the while TN should focus on boosting its presence more firmly in Mavi Vatan.

I want the drilling ships to be able to sail out and drill or do survey all the way to our EEZ with Libya and not be afraid of little shits.
 

boredaf

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AUV65 Unmanned Underwater Vehicle by Dearsan


Called AUV65, the Unmanned Underwater Vehicle has a length of 6.5 m and a weight of 600 kg. AUV65, which can operate up to 75 m depth, can reach a speed of 6 knots and a range of 93 km.
 

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6 OPV Hisar and 4 heavily weapon/sensor fitted Hisar would replace 6 Burak and 4 Yavuz i think.

With this, 4 Istif will become Med. sailor like Barbaros and Gabya.

Then 8 TD-2000 would replace 8 Gabya.

But I'm naturally want to add another 4 ship. Either another 4 TD-2000 or this:

images (1).jpeg


Quad S and X
Rotating L
V/UHF
ELINT & SIGINT
32 VLS
2 Helicopter
6-7k tonnage
CODAG

Well.. One could have dream atleast...
 

Afif

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I find it positive and support the deepening of defense cooperation especially with Spain and Italy, and secondarily with the UK. However, if we have not yet reached the industrial maturity to develop an construct aircraft carriers directly, I don't see the need to push for it. The cost of engineering services and possible package systems to be purchased from the UK will bring the product development cost of that ship closer to the production costs standards in Europe. The President has repeatedly expressed this dream, but even in our history there is a great deal of experience of how such untimely dreams have produced results.

If the goal is to increase the number of strategic assets, I think the priority should be under the sea, not area dominance and force projection in distant seas that currently beyond of Turkish navy's combatant capacity.

edit: My idea is related to the position that the Turkish state is trying to position itself within NATO in the new era. If we are pursuing a more autonomous and independent policy, our naval force structure should be capable of using its full capabilities independently.

Why nobody (except me) even interest in the conversation about SSNs?

It is something that provides power projection against conventionally inferior adversaries and strategic denial against conventionally superior adversary.
While AC can only do the former, not so great for the later.
 

dBSPL

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Why nobody (except me) even interest in the conversation about SSNs?

It is something that provides power projection against conventionally inferior adversaries and strategic denial against conventionally superior adversary.
While AC can only do the former, not so great for the later.
Our surface combatant fleet structure in the 2000s was around 20 missile boats and 16 frigates. Now? There is a huge pending need for modernization and renewal. A national aircraft carrier task group may have a modest fleet for flag sailing, but it needs half that fleet to go into the hot zone if not in any alliance force group. There are two strategic endpoints in naval strategic assets. One underwater and one above water. To protect the one above water, a huge fleet is needed. So I agree with your idea, we are on the same side.

The most fundamental problem with global power projection is that you have to have a whole naval structure to match it. Navy professionals could probably write dozens of pages on this topic. This is not something that can be created in an instant, this is not a problem that can be solved just by finding the money. In fact money is probably last issue on the list. We are talking about the task force to protect the carrier assets as the most basic argument here, but the subject is definitely much more complex, training and naval tradition is one aspect of it, the extraordinarily large logistical background and sustainability is another issue...

There was only one country in the world that had this, maybe 3-4 under the umbrella of the joint alliance forces. At the end of the 90s, the pocket carrier concept was discussed a lot, and today it has been partially realized with LHA derivative platforms and new generation STOVL jets such as the F-35B, but they are always far from being in the first group in terms of sortie effectiveness and the size of the combatant navies of the countries they belong to. Regional power projection, on the other hand, is likely to be against weak or even non-airpowered and limited geographical depth adversaries, that these sea forces able to gain the upper hand.

On the Asian side, China has achieved this capability and Korea is likely to follow. For Russia it was always ultra-painful. When we examine the experience of the world's navies and their efforts, some of which are based on decades of dedication, it becomes clear that this dream of acquiring a global power projection is not something to be optimistic about. From my pov, I am not opposed to any step forward with the capacity and capabilities of the navy. However, I humbly suggest that in order for the Turkish navy, which probably has one of the most challenging source management challenges in the world, to maintain-increase its deterrent effectiveness and increase its strategic assets/capabilities in parallel, we need to have a different perspective on prioritizations about new acquisitions and so future doctrines.
 

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Definitely it was built as a fashion statement……
 

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I think we should also use ARDA for our offshore patrol corvettes. MAR-D can be a place holder until ARDA becomes available.
 

Afif

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I think we should also use ARDA for our offshore patrol corvettes. MAR-D can be a place holder until ARDA becomes available.

Is there any info regarding ARDA's range?
Also, can Chenk be scaled down for OPV/Corvette?
 

TheInsider

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Is there any info regarding ARDA's range?
Also, can Chenk be scaled down for OPV/Corvette?
Cenk can be scaled down but we are looking for a multifunction x-band radar for the FAC project and X band Mar-D is planned for the OPV project so x band ARDA might be a suitable substitute. OPVs are designed to host Smart-S/Cenk class S-band long-range radars if need be.
 

manifesto

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Ekran görüntüsü 2023-07-18 214546.png


There is an interesting sentence. According to this sentence, CENK has been already serial produced for domestic and another countries.
 

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You're just casually disregarding sea-based BMD and ground strike of TST with SLBM, let alone ASW hunter-killer capability of a submarine against North Korean SSB that is just around the corner. There's a reason Korea went for a big 3000+ tons class SSK. They are both integral parts of Korean deterrence against NK nuclear force. KDX-III are equipped with Aegis BMD and KDDX will have a Korean BMD solution onboard as well. Think about a case where a North Korean SLBM is launched, where do you think it could be detected and intercepted the earliest?
If I were N. Korea, that wouldn't deter me. There are many options for dropping nuclear bombs.

What Korea needs to do is to achieve nuclear power. With China, N. Korea and Japan on its doorstep, it should not throw itself at the mercy or plans of America.

It should think of ways to overthrow the N. Korean dictatorship, and make plans to unify Korea.
 

Windchime

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If I were N. Korea, that wouldn't deter me. There are many options for dropping nuclear bombs.

What Korea needs to do is to achieve nuclear power. With China, N. Korea and Japan on its doorstep, it should not throw itself at the mercy or plans of America.

It should think of ways to overthrow the N. Korean dictatorship, and make plans to unify Korea.
Whatever you want to say. I'm not interested into getting that sort of discussion since it isn't really what this thread is meant for nor do I think it will end up with anything fruitful. My post was purely a reply to what you were saying, "what Korea is doing is meaningless". Like I've showed you, from military standpoint that's ignorant BS. If you are talking from international relations studies standpoint, like I've said, this thread ain't the place.
 

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View attachment 59255

There is an interesting sentence. According to this sentence, CENK has been already serial produced for domestic and another countries.
It is logical it is strategic approach. If I am neutral or you unexpected enemy then I will definitely try to get you product.
In order to see check
- what is you Country level of tech.
-Try to find counter measure against this product
-Try to use it in other conflicts get any opportunities from use it
etc.
Turkiye should Think and not sell strategic military products. It is new high tech with Turkiye future products, right?
 

Bogeyman 

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HISAR-D-RF-AKS.jpg



HİSAR-D RF Fire Control System for İ class frigates!

The HİSAR-D RF Fire Control System (AKS), developed for class I frigates, was featured in the 116th issue of ASELSAN magazine. The HİSAR-D RF AKS, which will be used in TCG ISTANBUL, where the MIDLAS Vertical Launch System is integrated, and on subsequent ships, was developed based on the fire control system developed for the Land Forces within the scope of the HİSAR project.


HİSAR-D RF AKS, which differs from the land type fire control system, includes targets with a high probability of encountering at sea such as anti-ship missiles and a series of optimizations for HAVELSAN ADVENT SYS. The system, which has a two-way data link, can transmit the necessary corrections to the missiles according to the position and speed of the target and the missile.

At the end of 2022, the first firing of the HİSAR-D RF missile was made from MIDLAS. It is aimed to integrate different munitions such as quadpack capability, different configurations of SİPER missiles, and GEZGİN Long Range Cruise Missile to MIDLAS over time. It should not be ignored that the integrations made to MIDLAS will provide a common capability acquisition for every platform equipped with MIDLAS.

 
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