TR Navy Naval Programs

[Yasar_TR]

I don't know the exact figures for the gun or the type of the shell, but Super Rapid used to be considered as a limited but purposed CIWS and AD gun.

But with no matching to the SR's rate of fire and lack of programmable / fused shells, MKE 76mm will have a very limited capability in that purpose.

Having clarified that point, it would be nice to know, if you would bring some light to the very fact that, why we are pursuing an inferior gun for our second batch of I-Class frigates. Would it not be more feasible to ask MKE to develop our “Super-Rapid” version?

You are correct in the fact that what makes the Italian Super Rapid come to it’s own are in fact, the Vulcano rounds with 40km range and the DART guided anti aircraft rounds.

Would one be correct in thinking that, for “conventional” use, there would be very little advantage in having a Super Rapid over the MKE version?

 

[TR_123456]

Most important part is AIP. Is there any update on where Türkiye's companies are with AIP?

''Turkish MILDEN are expected to use the AIP propulsion system. No decision has been made on what type will be used or whether a partnership will be formed. Currently, Gürbağ Savunma, known for its hydrogen-based solutions, is working on hydrogen-based propulsion systems for naval platforms in cooperation with STM. Considering Germany's counter-Turkiye stance on defence exports, cooperation with Siemens is the least likely option. However, with Spain's positive attitude to cooperation with Turkiye on naval platforms such as TCG ANADOLU (L-400) LHD and interest in further joint programmes, Abengoa, responsible for S-80 submarines' ethanol-based AIP system, might be an option. It is also known that companies such as ASPİLSAN and AYESAŞ have developed various AIP R&D projects. Establishing a stable development for MİLDEN's AIP system, whether fully local or partnership, is important to avoid programme delays.


Seas surrending Turkiye are not deep enough to hide nuclear powered submarines. The aircraft-carrier that Turkiye will construct will also open the country to open seas and oceans. The aircraft strike group requires submarine, It would not be a suprise if the submarine design is selected as nuclear powered one.


MİLDEN submarines will be larger than the current submarines in the Turkish Navy's inventory and possess a greater weapons capacity with eight torpedo tubes. Like the Reis class, they can use locally developed weapons like AKYA heavyweight torpedoes, Submarine-Launched ATMACA cruise missiles, and GEZGİN land-attack cruise missiles. Another important development for MİLDEN has been additional maintenance sites.''

Turkish Submarine MİLDEN's Construction to Start in 2025 | TURDEF

Chief of the Turkish Navy Ercüment Tatlıoğlu has stated that the construction of MİLDEN national submarines will begin in 2025.

turdef.com

 

[Anmdt]

Having clarified that point, it would be nice to know, if you would bring some light to the very fact that, why we are pursuing an inferior gun for our second batch of I-Class frigates. Would it not be more feasible to ask MKE to develop our “Super-Rapid” version?

You are correct in the fact that what makes the Italian Super Rapid come to it’s own are in fact, the Vulcano rounds with 40km range and the DART guided anti aircraft rounds.

Would one be correct in thinking that, for “conventional” use, there would be very little advantage in having a Super Rapid over the MKE version?

I think this is related to Navy's approach, 'let us equip our platforms with secured locally produced line of products, to begin with' and they have contributed a lot to the national 76mm, frankly i would say MKE is more of the branding factory.

I think for now they rely on the future expected programmable shells and smart fuses developed by national means.

I can't be certain on the efficasy of 120 rpm vs 80 rpm, but it is worse of the worse which i would rather not have. We should at least introduce atom 76, smart fuses (like this one).

 

[Anmdt]

''Turkish MILDEN are expected to use the AIP propulsion system. No decision has been made on what type will be used or whether a partnership will be formed. Currently, Gürbağ Savunma, known for its hydrogen-based solutions, is working on hydrogen-based propulsion systems for naval platforms in cooperation with STM. Considering Germany's counter-Turkiye stance on defence exports, cooperation with Siemens is the least likely option. However, with Spain's positive attitude to cooperation with Turkiye on naval platforms such as TCG ANADOLU (L-400) LHD and interest in further joint programmes, Abengoa, responsible for S-80 submarines' ethanol-based AIP system, might be an option. It is also known that companies such as ASPİLSAN and AYESAŞ have developed various AIP R&D projects. Establishing a stable development for MİLDEN's AIP system, whether fully local or partnership, is important to avoid programme delays.


Seas surrending Turkiye are not deep enough to hide nuclear powered submarines. The aircraft-carrier that Turkiye will construct will also open the country to open seas and oceans. The aircraft strike group requires submarine, It would not be a suprise if the submarine design is selected as nuclear powered one.


MİLDEN submarines will be larger than the current submarines in the Turkish Navy's inventory and possess a greater weapons capacity with eight torpedo tubes. Like the Reis class, they can use locally developed weapons like AKYA heavyweight torpedoes, Submarine-Launched ATMACA cruise missiles, and GEZGİN land-attack cruise missiles. Another important development for MİLDEN has been additional maintenance sites.''

Turkish Submarine MİLDEN's Construction to Start in 2025 | TURDEF

Chief of the Turkish Navy Ercüment Tatlıoğlu has stated that the construction of MİLDEN national submarines will begin in 2025.

turdef.com

I won't be too certain on gürbağ, Milden DPO negotiates with more serious and reliable actors ( ones who will not quit in 5 years or will be acquired or liquidified by any means) in regards of Milden project.

You can't rely to a newbie company backed by none of the giants when it is a strategic project.

 

[Oublious]

 

[UkroTurk]

 

[UkroTurk]

Watch unnamed | Streamable

Watch "unnamed" on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[UkroTurk]

For comparison Kraken UUV.
( They were also fair participant )

 

[boredaf]

Watch unnamed | Streamable

Watch "unnamed" on Streamable.

streamable.com

View attachment 71505
View attachment 71506
View attachment 71507
View attachment 71508

I wonder how close they are to actually field that 40mm naval gun, we do need a domestic alternative to Italian one.

 

[Anmdt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1851880720450367816

Last TTHB design made available to the public, and another iteration will be done to satisfy TN.

Source material:

https://imdecafrica.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/Suat-Tozendemir_STM.pdf

 

[dBSPL]

After the change in the TF-2000 weapon configuration, I was hoping that guided missiles could be launched with a vertical launch system in the TTHB project too, and perhaps the Hisar-D could be integrated into these corvettes in this way. But as expected, the canister launcher was not abandoned.

 

[Sanchez]

@Anmdt, Kozan Erkan claims Dearsan was awarded construction of 4 Hisar class OPVs. I think this is the first time we've heard of it.

 

[Anmdt]

Yusuf Akbaba said it in June.

I knew it earlier but that was in the negotiation phase. They have finalized the agreement somewhere around September. SSB was meeting with multiple shipyards back then and i preferred to remain silent.

@Anmdt, Kozan Erkan claims Dearsan was awarded construction of 4 Hisar class OPVs. I think this is the first time we've heard of it.

It is 2 + 2 in fact, 2 are optional but likely to be fulfilled. It is possible that another shipyard will be assigned with remaining 4, to complete the series of 10.

Got some "legit" information on the matter, first of all it was not nice of the mentioned media to make this bit of information falsely into news, there is nothing more than a negotiation stage with Dearsan on a certain matter and it is not a done deal. Information leak could not be understood nicely in these conditions.

I will openly tell it when it is the time.

By the end of the procurement programme, there will be more than 10 OPVs.

And Dearsan will utilize a neighboring shipyard to fulfill the orders. They have got a tugboat and MCMW order currently.

 

[boredaf]

MCMW order currently

Any chance those ships will employ USVs?

 

[Anmdt]

Any chance those ships will employ USVs?

The design is available at Dearsan's website, but since those can deploy RHIB, could also deploy a USV within the SWL of the winch. They might also equip the ship with a heavier winch to support USV operations.

In my opinion there will be another MCMW project in the following years, where we will see a larger MCMW similar to Belgian design with multiple USV and UAV operations.

This is my source and more or less, the acquisition follows with a delay and shifts between the projects. NG-MH is given to Dearsan (for the first prototype that will go through evaluation) and will follow with MKT (MCMW) vessel designed / built either by Dearsan or another.

TF-100 was never I-Class. But let's pretend it is.

You don't simply build first of the optional hulls (either for TF-2000 or I-Class) in the military shipyard. TF-100 was a whole new design in the past, likely split in two and merged to I-Class and TF-2000 projects. Navy has got a way to get 8 more hulls (+4 TF-2000 and +4 I-Class) In place of the TF-100.

Previous formation has been;
4 I-Class (+4 Optional), 4 TF-2000 (+3 Optional) + 4 TF-100, which transformed to;
8 I+Class (+Options), 8 TF-2000 (+Options).

Also notice NG MCMW and NG MHV are separate projects. Dearsan has secured the deal for one of these, for prototype construction and one another will be conceptualized by another company in cooperation with the Navy DPO.

This was the SSB's plan earlier, each first hull of the new designs are to be built in military shipyards, and follow up orders are to be built by private shipyards. All in all TF-100 was a planned new design and let go in the last year.

The table is mostly valid as of 2024.


View attachment 71049

 

[Tornadoss]

I knew it earlier but that was in the negotiation phase. They have finalized the agreement somewhere around September. SSB was meeting with multiple shipyards back then and i preferred to remain silent.


It is 2 + 2 in fact, 2 are optional but likely to be fulfilled. It is possible that another shipyard will be assigned with remaining 4, to complete the series of 10.





And Dearsan will utilize a neighboring shipyard to fulfill the orders. They have got a tugboat and MCMW order currently.

DO we know when we can see the Navalized Gokbey?

 

[Fairon]

The design is available at Dearsan's website, but since those can deploy RHIB, could also deploy a USV within the SWL of the winch. They might also equip the ship with a heavier winch to support USV operations.

In my opinion there will be another MCMW project in the following years, where we will see a larger MCMW similar to Belgian design with multiple USV and UAV operations.

This is my source and more or less, the acquisition follows with a delay and shifts between the projects. NG-MH is given to Dearsan (for the first prototype that will go through evaluation) and will follow with MKT (MCMW) vessel designed / built either by Dearsan or another.

Wait, those OPV's will not be Hisar class and will be Dearsan's design?

If that is the case, I kinda think it is a step into right direction. If you standardized the systems, logistics wise it will be okay and using the different shipyards designs will help our civil naval shipyards when they enter tenders. If this system won't work, you only end up having less than ideal OPV fleet which is tolerable. If it will work though, I think it will benefit our Navy and naval industry in the future.

 

[Saithan]

Sounds confusing, I thought the Hisar OPV going to be built would be on Ada class design and it would be FFBNW types, making room for domestic hardware to be slappede on them.

If Dearsan is making them are there a chance these will be export class OPV, but are camouflaged as for own use ?

 

[Anmdt]

Wait, those OPV's will not be Hisar class and will be Dearsan's design?

If that is the case, I kinda think it is a step into right direction. If you standardized the systems, logistics wise it will be okay and using the different shipyards designs will help our civil naval shipyards when they enter tenders. If this system won't work, you only end up having less than ideal OPV fleet which is tolerable. If it will work though, I think it will benefit our Navy and naval industry in the future.

This was the goal for a decade and they are finally achieving it. Both Navy and SSB relaxed a little and not stiff as in the past.

Sounds confusing, I thought the Hisar OPV going to be built would be on Ada class design and it would be FFBNW types, making room for domestic hardware to be slappede on them.

If Dearsan is making them are there a chance these will be export class OPV, but are camouflaged as for own use ?

It will be Hisar Class, but i don't know what will be left as FFBNW and what will be installed.

DO we know when we can see the Navalized Gokbey?

Better ask it to guys at TAI

 

[boredaf]

The design is available at Dearsan's website, but since those can deploy RHIB, could also deploy a USV within the SWL of the winch. They might also equip the ship with a heavier winch to support USV operations.

In my opinion there will be another MCMW project in the following years, where we will see a larger MCMW similar to Belgian design with multiple USV and UAV operations.

This is my source and more or less, the acquisition follows with a delay and shifts between the projects. NG-MH is given to Dearsan (for the first prototype that will go through evaluation) and will follow with MKT (MCMW) vessel designed / built either by Dearsan or another.

I just checked and they probably updated the page as it includes USVs and AUVs now, which I think is great news.

SALVO - Dearsan

dearsan.com