TR Navy Navy|News & Discussions

[UkroTurk]

What do you think about Tuzla Class MDL?

Look at the Finnish Navy Hamina Class MDL

Hamina class didn't have torpedoes now the Fins put torpedoes

Before The ships had a Konsberg compact commercial sonar like Tuzla Class but then towed medium frequency sonar for shallow waters was removed from decommissioned Rauma Class .
The Finnish Navy focuses also on ASW so underwater threats are getting more important.


Look at the decommissioned little patrol boats with ASW rockets and decent towed sonar.

Rauma-class missile boat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So this ASW modernization is good reference for Tuzla Class since they were constructed for ASW.

Kongsberg to deliver ST2400 variable depth sonars for Finnish Hamina-class missile boats

Hamina-class missile boat - Finnish nternet images The Finnish defense ministry has awarded Kongsberg Maritime a contract to deliver ...

thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.com

If meteksan Yakamoz medium ( not low !) frequency sonar -which ADA -Class corvettes have - were towed as Konsberg made, Tuzla Class ships would be real beast with new torpedoes.

There are 15 Tuzla Class ships and they keep rotating watch mission so 6 towed sonar would be enough for all 15 ships.

 

[Quasar]

This question has been asked a lot lately: We produce our own torpedoes, why do we still buy them from Germany? Instead of answering one by one, let me write here. First of all, everyone should know that there is a happy ending at the end of the process. In other words, when the transition is completed, the underwater weapon load of our submarines will be the domestic/national AKYA torpedo. The same applies to the underwater version of Atmaca. But there is some time for that...

In order for our submarines in our navy to be able to fire AKYA from the command control system, the MÜREN command control system needs to be modified. This process is ongoing for the Preveze classes, the first ship, TCG Preveze, has already fired AKYA. The other 3 submarines will gain the ability to fire AKYA after undergoing this modification. My personal opinion is that since the first ship is completed, the modification process of the other ships will be shorter than the first ship. Afterwards, our 4 Gür class submarines also need to undergo MÜREN modification. When those submarines are equipped with the MÜREN command and control system, our Preveze and Gür class submarines will be able to take full loads of AKYA.

Of course, we also have Reis class submarines. They can currently fire AKYA from the head of the tube, but they also need to be modified to be able to fire from the command and control system. Even if MÜREN does not see the modification, it can fire, but it cannot be a full load AKYA, because there must be a torpedo that can be fired from the command and control system. I do not know exactly what the DZKK's intention is in this regard, but when the warranty period of the submarines expires, the right to renovation arises. The planning of the timing of these renovations is of course meticulously planned according to the operational needs of the DZKK. It is difficult to give an exact figure for how long this process will take, but I think that the Navy is making plans within a deadline plan. At the end of this process, our submarines will be able to take full loads of AKYA and the import will be completely finished, it seems that our incentive work with Germany will continue for a while until this process is completed.

So a little more patience... NOTE: Since the command control system in MİLDENs will be completely domestic/national, the integration of the domestic weapon load will be problem-free. Therefore, such a process will not be experienced in them.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1845495866007650577

 

[Yasar_TR]

What do you think about Tuzla Class MDL?

Look at the Finnish Navy Hamina Class MDL
View attachment 71164
Hamina class didn't have torpedoes now the Fins put torpedoes

Before The ships had a Konsberg compact commercial sonar like Tuzla Class but then towed medium frequency sonar for shallow waters was removed from decommissioned Rauma Class .
The Finnish Navy focuses also on ASW so underwater threats are getting more important.


Look at the decommissioned little patrol boats with ASW rockets and decent towed sonar.

Rauma-class missile boat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So this ASW modernization is good reference for Tuzla Class since they were constructed for ASW.

Kongsberg to deliver ST2400 variable depth sonars for Finnish Hamina-class missile boats

Hamina-class missile boat - Finnish nternet images The Finnish defense ministry has awarded Kongsberg Maritime a contract to deliver ...

thaimilitaryandasianregion.blogspot.com

View attachment 71163
View attachment 71166


If meteksan Yakamoz medium ( not low !) frequency sonar -which ADA -Class corvettes have - were towed as Konsberg made, Tuzla Class ships would be real beast with new torpedoes.


View attachment 71165

There are 26 Tuzla Class ships and they keep rotating watch mission so 6 towed sonar would be enough for all 26 ships.

There are only 16 in Turkish navy. 10 Tuzla class are in use with Turkmenistan Navy.
Our Tuzla Class boats are under armed. Especially with respect to self defence. They should carry a number of Cakir anti ship missiles and we should find a place for a Levent missile system optimised for this boat too.
The Roketsan ASW rocket launcher’s range was recently increased to 2km from 1km. These boats utilise 3000m range Simrad SP92 fisherman’s sonars. These are commercial sonars adapted for use on these boats. ??

How do you accomplish ASW when a submarine can fire a 10-25km range torpedo at these boats? Akya has 50+ km range. DM2A4 is the same.

Roketsan - Anti-Submarine Warfare [ASW] Rocket And Launcher System

www.roketsan.com.tr

 

[chngr]

They are patrol boats not FAC...leave them alone

Not every ship has to be heavily armed.

 

[UkroTurk]

How do you accomplish ASW when a submarine can fire a 10-25km range torpedo at these boats?

That's why I suggested towed sonar. Also there are USV s that detect submarines. How could you quickly react when your USV detected submarine? Are ASW rockets enough?

BTW i didn't suggest heavy torpedoe such as AKYA. İ meant 324mm lightweight torpedoes.

 

[dBSPL]

Tuzla boats(with ASW rockets), was a very good optimization for port and coastal safety, which are the main mission types of this patrol boats. For actual ASW warfare in inland waters, navy designed ADA class. What if Tuzla boats have more installed power and more powerful systems; if we think according to the conditions 15 years ago, both costs would have multiplied due to high outsourcing, and it would not have been possible to produce them at this speed in private shipyards. When we consider the platform in the context of the whole modernization scheme of the navy, it was actually a fast and as-needed solution, exactly as it should be. With the start of the acceptance of the Hisar class corvettes and some auxiliary unmanned boats, albeit a little late, I think the Navy will have the platforms in the entire scale required for patrol and escort missions in the Mediterranean (and related inland seas).

In the past 15 years, I think the most significant development for near shore missions is the proliferation and increasing capabilities of unmanned asymmetric elements. You know, it's actually a very large group, starting from mini flying drones to explosive-laden mini boats. I don't know if there is room for a significant configuration change in the Tuzla boats, but I think out loud; instead of twin-forty, which is the heaviest installed weapon system on the ship, another solution could be considered. It can be a missile + barrel system that will provide effective engagement against all need of point defense, anti surface-kamikaze and low altitude rotary wing threats in autonomous mode.

Secondly, a portable unmanned boat launching and towing cradle can be provided in the aft section of the ship instead of the mine dumping cradle. In this way, the boat can keep an unmanned boat within the ship's configuration when needed. It's one of the smallest ships in the Navy, but I think it's one of the platforms that all defense enthusiasts have been most interested in for more than a decade, periodically, in terms of its configuration. hehe.

 

[UkroTurk]

Why The Finnish Navy has added ASW capability even in FACs? Does Towing a sonar at low speeds from fast attack craft with torpedoes sound reasonable while they already had compact commercial sonar? They did it for shallow water ASW.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1724306170653941768

Yakamoz medium frequency sonar won't cost more than 1 million USD. İt isn't too much on the other hand it doesn't need change the structure of YTKB.
Towed sonar is not waste of money you could replace them .

I can't understand, how could YTKB detect or deal if there is a submarine ?using fishing radar or waiting corvettes?

 

[Yasar_TR]

That's why I suggested towed sonar. Also there are USV s that detect submarines. How could you quickly react when your USV detected submarine? Are ASW rockets enough?

BTW i didn't suggest heavy torpedoe such as AKYA. İ meant 324mm lightweight torpedoes.

LWT like Leonardo MU90, has an effective range of 12 to 25 km.

Tuzla Class are littoral patrol boats. Their range is no more than 1900km. So they are not going to take on the responsibilities of a Corvette or even a Fast Attack Boat. (Kilic Class has a range of 1900km too. But have a different purpose, even though it is essentially to be deployed for littoral waters like Tuzla Class)
Tuzla Class has a specific job of being an ASW vessel. Any submarine coming close to our harbours and littoral shipping lines will have to be detected and if necessary, targeted by it, without herself being a target. Also she has to be able to pluck out any submarine lurking at the bottom of the shallow waters close to our coasts.
How is a Tuzla class to defend herself against a submarine and against an AShM fired from a helicopter ?
It needs a better sonar and better self defence weaponry to be more versatile.

 

[Anmdt]

Why The Finnish Navy has added ASW capability even in FACs? Does Towing a sonar at low speeds from fast attack craft with torpedoes sound reasonable while they already had compact commercial sonar? They did it for shallow water ASW.

The answer is hidden in the Finnish Navy Fleet composition.

There are 8 combatants in the fleet, there are no dedicated ASW ships in the fleet. Also no dedicated ASW helicopters or aircraft of any kind. Also, I remember that commercial sonar was used at first, and more or less it does the job as intended in littoral (shallow) waters, and after a point they added another sonar on some other ships (but I remember this weakly, so don't take my words for granted).

So all in all a solution becomes valid within a Navy's doctrinal approach.

LWT like Leonardo MU90, has an effective range of 12 to 25 km.

Tuzla Class are littoral patrol boats. Their range is no more than 1900km. So they are not going to take on the responsibilities of a Corvette or even a Fast Attack Boat. (Kilic Class has a range of 1900km too. But have a different purpose, even though it is essentially to be deployed for littoral waters like Tuzla Class)
Tuzla Class has a specific job of being an ASW vessel. Any submarine coming close to our harbours and littoral shipping lines will have to be detected and if necessary, targeted by it, without herself being a target. Also she has to be able to pluck out any submarine lurking at the bottom of the shallow waters close to our coasts.
How is a Tuzla class to defend herself against a submarine and against an AShM fired from a helicopter ?
It needs a better sonar and better self defence weaponry to be more versatile.

From this point of view, even the ocean-going ASW destroyers are not capable of countering or detecting submarines beyond the submarine's sensing capability. And launching a torpedo is not the primary strength of a submarine, it remains hidden until its functions are needed. Thus, ASW is mainly aimed at the submarines that are set for an infiltration, shadowing mission and when the submarine passes these blockades there may be not much to do but unleash all ASW capability of the fleet or the Navy.

In addition, AShM is not a valid target set for a 300 meter boat, I doubt anyone will fire a full fledged AShM at a 300 ton target as it is likely to miss or even if hit it might sink, here I will be more concerned about Hellfire, Spike-NLOS or loitering munitions that can definitely hit and render the ship immobile. The ultimate goal in naval warfare is to disable / render immobile a ship so that the enemy has to send a rescue team, a ship, and more to the area to make it vulnerable, etc.

To counter Hellfire, Spike and other NLOS I think instead of a CIWS we need some manpads, anti-UAV solutions and better sensors to detect carrier of these threats and a USV will work dearly for the case. I think the winning part of an upgrade will be the addition of a USV on NTPB.

USV (with sonar or Sungur depending on the mission), Sungur-Levent launcher, MAR-D or scaled down ARDA (CENK-300N)* and CENK-100 or AKREP-200N* for better target tracking and maybe ORKA/TORK torpedo could be the maximum of a possible MLU. Also i believe in a pure HAS mode Levent missile can attain longer ranges.

*These will be luxury if happens.

I think if TORK goes through and a miniature torpedo is introduced after the project, these can be used with UAVs similar to how Corvettes/Frigates use helicopters to deliver a dipping sonar and torpedo bundle to hunt and kill.

 

[Saithan]

That sounds way more realistic and doable than the "Let's arm it as if it was a Corvette/Frigate"

Small and compact solutions are the key here, and it has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

As well as the Sonobuoy network-centric solutions. I've also mentioned how fond I am of the idea of having Smart Buoys in our waters and EEZ in a spiderweb-like formation. That can hopefully function as passive signal relayer of sorts.

But I'm not a engineer or so, so I don't know how much our smallest sonars weight and whether it can be fitted into a Buoy of sorts.

Word’s Smallest Imaging Sonar Launched - Impact Subsea

Impact Subsea has launched the world’s smallest imaging sonar.

www.impactsubsea.co.uk

Found this and it's the smallest, so it should be possible to make one that would work according to some defense doctrin.

 

[UkroTurk]

As well as the Sonobuoy network-centric solutions. I've also mentioned how fond I am of the idea of having Smart Buoys in our waters and EEZ in a spiderweb-like formation. That can hopefully function as passive signal relayer of sorts.

IMO we must have acoustic sensors network.

Regarding Tuzla Class, i quit because again i met conservatives.

 

[Saithan]

Yes, but those are too small. We want something bigger, like these and have civilian, marine biological institutes do the placing and gathering of data, and even involve TCG into this, so that we have an excuse to develop TCG capabilities further.

Of course the sonar part should be there in some of these buoys so that the enemy can't tell.

 

[Fatman17]

Middle East & Africa​

Turkiye’s leading naval engineering company STM unveiled a new unmanned autonomous underwater vehicle, STM NETA, at the SAHA EXPO 2024 defense industry exhibition in Istanbul. This system, designed using entirely local and national resources, marks a significant milestone in Turkey’s development of naval technologies. The initial version of the UUV, named the STM NETA 300, is intended for mine detection missions and has broad applications in both military and civilian operations.

 

[Quasar]

Reis class submarines in training. The first submarine of the Reis Class Submarine Project, TCG PİRİREİS, and the second submarine, TCG HIZIRREİS, built within the scope of the Air Independent Propulsion System Submarine Project, conducted “Acclimation Training and Vertical Replenishment Training with Helicopter” in the Marmara Sea.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1850475163516563465

 

[Sanchez]

Reis class submarines in training. The first submarine of the Reis Class Submarine Project, TCG PİRİREİS, and the second submarine, TCG HIZIRREİS, built within the scope of the Air Independent Propulsion System Submarine Project, conducted “Acclimation Training and Vertical Replenishment Training with Helicopter” in the Marmara Sea.

We waited so long for this.

 

[Fatman17]

Turkish Navy Unveils MUGEM: A Fully Indigenous Aircraft Carrier https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...ls-mugem-a-fully-indigenous-aircraft-carrier/

Turkey becoming a major armaments manufacturer and supplier

 

[Fatman17]

 

[somegoodusername]

What does TCG Anadolu do in it's missions currently? It doesn't have any helicopters on board, it doesn't have any USVs in it. Does it just wonder around empty without any mission load?

 

[chngr]

What does TCG Anadolu do in it's missions currently? It doesn't have any helicopters on board, it doesn't have any USVs in it. Does it just wonder around empty without any mission load?
View attachment 71708

its amphibious ship with dock...why people just dont get it

 

[Anmdt]

its amphibious ship with dock...why people just dont get it

It supposed to have helicopters though.

Landing Helicopter Dock
It is not an LPD with a flat top landing pad and a dock
It is an LHD with a flat top having access to a hangar where helicopters may be maintained, stored and with a Dock.

If we are utilizing her as an LPD then i have no issues with the current form but it has never been the purpose since 2010. The project changed from having an LPD at 10,000 tons~ to LHD at 25,000~ tons.