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Kartal1

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Well... the moderation took a look and decided that some messages will be deleted other edited. The language out of chit-chat threads of the forum is English. Personal insults are not allowed. Insulting a whole group of people because of their political vision is not wanted. It is a last warning. The next time when somebody decides that he will go personal he will be banned so be smart.
 

Test7

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This is a free platform. You can freely criticize a political leader or political party for their wrong policies. We do not limit your criticism..on the contrary, we undertake to publish your ideas freely. You can freely criticize a political leader or political party. But you cannot insult him/her and his/her supporters. You can freely criticize an opposition leader or political party. But you cannot insult him/her and his/her supporters
 

Lool

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You see..... in general degenrates always tend to surround the ruling party, either the AKP or the CHP or any other party that will rule in the future
The problem is that the CHP just suddenly got active that it pisses me a lot
Like now they are posting pics of erdogan with the PKK from 10 years ago..... but my question is..... where were you guys at that time? Were you still busy having lunch or did it take time for the internet to reach you guys and learn about social media and journalists? Insane
The moment the CHP wins, they will revert back to their old tactics
Until now, i cant see that the CHP had a change of heart tbh
They are just acting docile to win the ppl hearts, but after that they are gonna show their real face


Like ffs, why havent the opposition been this active pre 2015
Why have they only been active when the AKP started to kick out the PKK
Like you guys were fine when the pkk were in turkey but now are sad that they got out? The answer is no.... they are just trying to appeal to the kurds
Truly ridiculous! The moment the CHP wins and the parliamentary system comes back (not saying the presidential system is better) the HDP will be controlling the CHP from the shadows just like in israel
But now the PKK will have political backing. I wouldnt be surprised if after 20 years, they got separated from turkey but by now it will be too late because either the US or Russia will be involved
 
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Okan

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Why did the AK Party lose Istanbul election? Because a terrorist (pkk leader's brother) wanted with a red alert asked them not to vote for an opponent party. You take politics and politicians very seriously. Politicians don't take you very seriously. While you cant buy a toy car for your child, the children of politicians are partying abroad and driving luxury cars. No politician is more important than you and your family's future. Don't make them heroes.
 

GoatsMilk

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You see..... in general degenrates always tend to surround the ruling party, either the AKP or the CHP or any other party that will rule in the future
The problem is that the CHP just suddenly got active that it pisses me a lot
Like now they are posting pics of erdogan with the PKK from 10 years ago..... but my question is..... where were you guys at that time? Were you still busy having lunch or did it take time for the internet to reach you guys and learn about social media and journalists? Insane
The moment the CHP wins, they will revert back to their old tactics
Until now, i cant see that the CHP had a change of heart tbh
They are just acting docile to win the ppl hearts, but after that they are gonna show their real face


Like ffs, why havent the opposition been this active pre 2015
Why have they only been active when the AKP started to kick out the PKK
Like you guys were fine when the pkk were in turkey but now are sad that they got out? The answer is no.... they are just trying to appeal to the kurds
Truly ridiculous! The moment the CHP wins and the parliamentary system comes back (not saying the presidential system is better) the HDP will be controlling the CHP from the shadows just like in israel
But now the PKK will have political backing. I wouldnt be surprised if after 20 years, they got separated from turkey but by now it will be too late because either the US or Russia will be involved

Unfortunately i think Turkey is trapped with the social conscience of the nation. Reasonable minds make the minority, the irrational make the majority. That means that whatever comes after AK party will only appear different but really be the same tired old corrupt class of people that always surround power.

The political islamists created a business out of polarisation, they preached that all nationalist, secular minded people and all people who didn't believe in Sharia or dictatorship were devils. Once they lose the elections it will revert to the political religious class are the greatest threat to the democracy and freedoms of Turkey. Trapped in a never ended cycle. Political Islamists will become the new devils of the nation.
 

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If we gonna talk about stealing, Mister Kemal depleated and ruined the whole budget of the Social Security Organisaton back when the AKP didnt even exist and he was a board member of the famous CHP gangsterbank İŞ Bank; you know, the bank whom the CHP bought the most stocks from with donation money send by poor Pakistani's intended to support the Ottoman army
- check SGK's debt condition, it is indifferent in fact it is even worse or care to look at wage bill to see how much is being paid to SGK.

- check who has most funded isbank while it was being funded, and how CHP has gained the vote in the board, moreover what happens to the income and who and how takes it. (All available in official documents)

- not even talking about the debt and currency crisis which is ongoing at the moment, i don't want to mention the interests is about 20% yet lira keeps falling, enormous credit risk and foreign investment is either going away or they are avoiding a direct or inditect investment.

- nobody including investors believes the judiscary system is up and tight, everyone is aware it is sacrificed for comfort of a guy and his supporters. Killing a family at a road accident, the guy calls AKP ilce baskani and doesn't even gets into jail for once, insult erdogan once in social media and immediately jailed, kill a woman and the guy is even protected by some politicians and ministers.

- TV is censoring people who suicides, they are either not aired or aired as ' the citizen who had gotten under the train by accident' , they avoid showing the record which s/he purposefully jumping.

- Inflation rates are manipulated, mockingly, officially it is 13-15 percent, in fact it is about 40-50 percent in average. Not talking about meat prices which has reached 70 lira per kilogram for a simple mince meat, or meat.

- Agriculture has been killed by a purpose, fresh fruit and vegatable has been a luxury in the most fertilized lands of the region. Anatolia is betrayed year by year, to the point of low yield of wheat and barney.

- Seas and rivers are polluted way more in recent years because if you have got to know some people they let you pass on the inspection, if somebody inspects your waste water they are taken away from their position, doesn't matter how much attraction is driven the media ignores.

- coal plants, the ones mainly funded by top 5 contractor buddy of Erdogan is not using filters, nobody inspects them. They are constantly polluting water, dumping water at higher temperature than what is allowed, filling unassigned lands with waste ashes and dumping smokes at midnight to conceal their pollution.

-everybit of green areas in AKP rule is converted to the mall or residency. For example istanbul sisli mesleki teknik lise, half of highschool's area were taken away, sold to a buddy of Erdogan, the guy has digged deep to make a mall and highschool building is half-collapsed students continued in containers. This is only a single example and there are at least dozens.

- Demokrasi adasi, see before and after it is saddening.

- Infastructure which is given to some creamy subcontractors via PPI, the prices so high that common people avoids to use, the guaranteed amount is never satisfied, state pays on behalf of the public and the guys profit even at the worst case. But meanwhile their debts on the airport are cleared away because of the 'special covid condition' the condition which has applied one way only on their profit.

- Zafer havalimani, not one more word on this

- Ataturk havalimani, two runways, in a rush were broken to build covid field hospital which i really doubt if ever actively used. Meanwhile it is known that the airport was used whenever things gone wrong at the new airport as a plan B, whenever it made its way to media AKP had felt ashamed and had to broke those runways and leave the small one so that it won't be preferred as before. Also it is know it is expensive to build and certify those runways.

-new highways which is rarely used by people due to the high and unaffordable prices

-new bridges which is rarely used by people due to the known reasons

-new PPI hospitals which were designed to make huge profits to subcontractors which it was too absurd even health ministry has turned around after one-two application.

- radical and tarikat guys are gaining power in everywhere and they can freely insult republic, modern laws and oppose the state law and impose their own laws on people whom they have control over.

- kids are sexually harrassed by a foundation which is known to managed by a tarikat and nobody has investigated it fully. It is covered and cencored

- everything is a state secret when price of something, budget of commercial projects, trade agreements were requested to be answered in the grand assembly, there is no accountability and transparency.

- everything is censored ,media is asked not to use 'zam' word they call it ' price of this is updated'. They are also not allowed to talk about increased prices in market or bazaar unless they are instructed to, so that the next week a new one can be aired on how prices have gone low.


It is rotten from deep inside to the outside. Past the point it starts to smell now it is squishy and there is no point to grab on. Public has no value but seen as commoners and voters, people are not valued unless they are linked to someone in the party. It is beyond of CHP- AKP , kilicdaroglu-erdogan it has become ' survive or not '.

I don't like kilicdaroglu a bit, even unlike him as much as erdogan on some basis but i have come to the point that i can vote for him without any further question.
I can even vote for ajdar anik at least election campaign song will be fun to hear, anyone except a terrorist or cleric, i would support against erdogan.

Too many young and middle aged people has strayed farther away from the religion because they were pressurized by the state in many levels and they have cause people to anticipate islam.

I used to support Erbakan until he has lost his sanity to call jihadists out in street, long before erdogan has existed, i have heard live when erdogan read that poem and jailed and i have cursed it. Yet once he came to the power he turned out to be worse than people who has jailed him.
I knew erdogan even before than he became a prime minister, even supported him at first because of his liberal ideas on giving people freedom. Despite of not liking him personally i voted for him. Yet it was only for once since then i have never voted for him and always have been voting against him.
The current situation is frustrating and irritating way worse than 90s with economical and political crisis, way worse than 80s with a coup government. There is nothing rational to explain or support.
 
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TheInsider

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I think Erdo has to go. 20 years at the helm is not healthy in any country. I will vote for Mansur Yavaş if he runs for the presidency if he is not then I will vote for Meral Akşener. If she is not running then Ekrem İmamoğlu. I don't like Ekrem personally but Erdo has to go even if the next president would be worse for the country. I think no one, regardless of how brilliant they are, (even Atatürk) should stay at the helm for 20 years.

I have one exception though. If Kılıçdaroğlu runs for the presidency I will vote for Erdo.
 

Ryder

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I think Erdo has to go. 20 years at the helm is not healthy in any country. I will vote for Mansur Yavaş if he runs for the presidency if he is not then I will vote for Meral Akşener. If she is not running then Ekrem İmamoğlu. I don't like Ekrem personally but Erdo has to go even if the next president would be worse for the country. I think no one, regardless of how brilliant they are, (even Atatürk) should stay at the helm for 20 years.

I have one exception though. If Kılıçdaroğlu runs for the presidency I will vote for Erdo.

There needs to be a cap on the presidency. I dont like the idea of ruling for decades.
 

Lool

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I think Erdo has to go. 20 years at the helm is not healthy in any country. I will vote for Mansur Yavaş if he runs for the presidency if he is not then I will vote for Meral Akşener. If she is not running then Ekrem İmamoğlu. I don't like Ekrem personally but Erdo has to go even if the next president would be worse for the country. I think no one, regardless of how brilliant they are, (even Atatürk) should stay at the helm for 20 years.

I have one exception though. If Kılıçdaroğlu runs for the presidency I will vote for Erdo.
Yup, no leader should rule for decades
I believe a 12 year max period is good. However, it shouldnt be divided into 2 terms but better for it to be divided into 3 terms; i-e, each term 4 years
Which is better as it will maintain competitiveness



Although I would like to ask, can a mayor just out of nowhere resign from his post to run for presidency in turkey or is there a law prohibiting that?
 

mulj

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by my opinion only big concern with the opposition win on next elections is the possible price that could be paid in sense of reducing or stopping of ongoing domestification of armed forces and military industry and their strategic projects,, cheap dollar will not come without liabilities.
 

Lool

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by my opinion only big concern with the opposition win on next elections is the possible price that could be paid in sense of reducing or stopping of ongoing domestification of armed forces and military industry and their strategic projects,, cheap dollar will not come without liabilities.
A decent point tbh^^^^^
Something which i have been trying to tell for a while
The CHP will try to win international acceptance and that means pleasing the UAE, Russia, France, and US
all of which envy current domestication rate of turkish armed forces
What is even worse, is if they asked for technology transfer in return for acceptance
(just like how Egypt sold its own land to please The UAE, KSA, and Israel for international acceptance and now the egyptians are regretting it forever)
That would be the dead blow to the turkish industry forever
Not like they cant give it in secret so that the public wont find out and drag them to hell


Erdo has his own agenda, and he knows none will help him, that is why he is trying to build a strong military and it did produce results in Syria, Azerbaijan, and Libya which gave turkey a lot of leverage in international politics tbh
Especially in Libya and Azerbaijan
 
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Deliorman

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by my opinion only big concern with the opposition win on next elections is the possible price that could be paid in sense of reducing or stopping of ongoing domestification of armed forces and military industry and their strategic projects,, cheap dollar will not come without liabilities.

The fundamentals of Turkey’s defense sector have been laid way before Erdogan even thought of being a politician. The first great steps started in 1974- when Turkey invaded Cyprus and years long embargo was put on it by its American and European allies. As a result companies like Aselsan, Roketsan, TAI etc were created. The Prime Minister at that time - Bulent Ecevit, that evil and incompetent CHP guy- kicked out all American troops from Incirlik and Turkey as retaliation- when Erdogan does something like that instead of only yelling “Eyyy America! Who are you Trump/Biden?” on his rallies you can call me.

Technologies develop every year and we see newer stuff being used every year. It’s quite normal for a big country with an industrial base to develop newer stuff and improve its capabilities so be sure that nobody from CHP or IYI party will touch the defense sector. They will most probably even invest more in it because Military has always been a very important thing in Ataturkism.

TAI nowadays tries to build drones, helicopters, planes- but for 3 decades they have gained know how by building parts for Boeing, Lockheed, Airbus, they built Turkey’s F-16s, they build the Sikorsky helicopters etc.

Turkey’s Yavuz class ships, Turkish Submarines etc- they are all built by Turkish shipyards before “AKPs defense golden era”. The know how Turkey got throughout the years, getting licenses from abroad and foreign help- eventually it translates to local designs too.

Turkey’s artillery and missiles- the Firtina howitzers, Yildirim ballistic missiles were in operation before AKP came to power.

And probably you can find many other stuff and examples which I don’t know about but you get the idea. Defense Sector didn’t start with Erdogan and won’t end with him.
 

mulj

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The fundamentals of Turkey’s defense sector have been laid way before Erdogan even thought of being a politician. The first great steps started in 1974- when Turkey invaded Cyprus and years long embargo was put on it by its American and European allies. As a result companies like Aselsan, Roketsan, TAI etc were created. The Prime Minister at that time - Bulent Ecevit, that evil and incompetent CHP guy- kicked out all American troops from Incirlik and Turkey as retaliation- when Erdogan does something like that instead of only yelling “Eyyy America! Who are you Trump/Biden?” on his rallies you can call me.

Technologies develop every year and we see newer stuff being used every year. It’s quite normal for a big country with an industrial base to develop newer stuff and improve its capabilities so be sure that nobody from CHP or IYI party will touch the defense sector. They will most probably even invest more in it because Military has always been a very important thing in Ataturkism.

TAI nowadays tries to build drones, helicopters, planes- but for 3 decades they have gained know how by building parts for Boeing, Lockheed, Airbus, they built Turkey’s F-16s, they build the Sikorsky helicopters etc.

Turkey’s Yavuz class ships, Turkish Submarines etc- they are all built by Turkish shipyards before “AKPs defense golden era”. The know how Turkey got throughout the years, getting licenses from abroad and foreign help- eventually it translates to local designs too.

Turkey’s artillery and missiles- the Firtina howitzers, Yildirim ballistic missiles were in operation before AKP came to power.

And probably you can find many other stuff and examples which I don’t know about but you get the idea. Defense Sector didn’t start with Erdogan and won’t end with him.
you can go in past and find opposite examples, that is not the point i want to discuss, i would just ask how many defence projects you had in year 2001 and how many today.
if you think that there is not strong possibility that istanbul class frigate, mildem, tfx, layered air defence, ballistic program, etc,, could not be touched by the strong west influence combined with carrot and stick, it is at least iresponcible to leave it out of the calculation. sure, they will not bother you to play with small toys, that does not bother them. this scenario is really easy to sell to the domestic public under pretext of budget rationalization, economy, cooperation, integration and similiar phrases-
 
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GoatsMilk

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The fundamentals of Turkey’s defense sector have been laid way before Erdogan even thought of being a politician. The first great steps started in 1974- when Turkey invaded Cyprus and years long embargo was put on it by its American and European allies. As a result companies like Aselsan, Roketsan, TAI etc were created. The Prime Minister at that time - Bulent Ecevit, that evil and incompetent CHP guy- kicked out all American troops from Incirlik and Turkey as retaliation- when Erdogan does something like that instead of only yelling “Eyyy America! Who are you Trump/Biden?” on his rallies you can call me.

Technologies develop every year and we see newer stuff being used every year. It’s quite normal for a big country with an industrial base to develop newer stuff and improve its capabilities so be sure that nobody from CHP or IYI party will touch the defense sector. They will most probably even invest more in it because Military has always been a very important thing in Ataturkism.

TAI nowadays tries to build drones, helicopters, planes- but for 3 decades they have gained know how by building parts for Boeing, Lockheed, Airbus, they built Turkey’s F-16s, they build the Sikorsky helicopters etc.

Turkey’s Yavuz class ships, Turkish Submarines etc- they are all built by Turkish shipyards before “AKPs defense golden era”. The know how Turkey got throughout the years, getting licenses from abroad and foreign help- eventually it translates to local designs too.

Turkey’s artillery and missiles- the Firtina howitzers, Yildirim ballistic missiles were in operation before AKP came to power.

And probably you can find many other stuff and examples which I don’t know about but you get the idea. Defense Sector didn’t start with Erdogan and won’t end with him.

AK party milked these developments like no other though. They have their followers believing that its ak party ministers themselves designing and developing all these systems.
 
T

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The fundamentals of Turkey’s defense sector have been laid way before Erdogan even thought of being a politician. The first great steps started in 1974- when Turkey invaded Cyprus and years long embargo was put on it by its American and European allies. As a result companies like Aselsan, Roketsan, TAI etc were created. The Prime Minister at that time - Bulent Ecevit, that evil and incompetent CHP guy- kicked out all American troops from Incirlik and Turkey as retaliation- when Erdogan does something like that instead of only yelling “Eyyy America! Who are you Trump/Biden?” on his rallies you can call me.

Technologies develop every year and we see newer stuff being used every year. It’s quite normal for a big country with an industrial base to develop newer stuff and improve its capabilities so be sure that nobody from CHP or IYI party will touch the defense sector. They will most probably even invest more in it because Military has always been a very important thing in Ataturkism.

TAI nowadays tries to build drones, helicopters, planes- but for 3 decades they have gained know how by building parts for Boeing, Lockheed, Airbus, they built Turkey’s F-16s, they build the Sikorsky helicopters etc.

Turkey’s Yavuz class ships, Turkish Submarines etc- they are all built by Turkish shipyards before “AKPs defense golden era”. The know how Turkey got throughout the years, getting licenses from abroad and foreign help- eventually it translates to local designs too.

Turkey’s artillery and missiles- the Firtina howitzers, Yildirim ballistic missiles were in operation before AKP came to power.

And probably you can find many other stuff and examples which I don’t know about but you get the idea. Defense Sector didn’t start with Erdogan and won’t end with him.
What about Republic's technical univercities which supply qualified engineers? By the way All technical univercity students are blamed for being terrorists.
 

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Personally I'm of the opinion that AK party actually slowed down developments. Look what happened to Altay or Milgem. Where AK party crony hands got involved the projects stalled and delayed. Even now we see AK party favouring son in law over TAI.
 

mulj

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Personally I'm of the opinion that AK party actually slowed down developments. Look what happened to Altay or Milgem. Where AK party crony hands got involved the projects stalled and delayed. Even now we see AK party favouring son in law over TAI.
Yea, propably it has nothing to do with complexities of systems and betrayals from beloved western partners.
Yes, AK pushed the polish MD to...I would not be suprised if opposition win that Baykar will be closed for bussiness for good because he is son in law...
 

GoatsMilk

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Yea, propably it has nothing to do with complexities of systems and betrayals from beloved western partners.
Yes, AK pushed the polish MD to...I would not be suprised if opposition win that Baykar will be closed for bussiness for good because he is son in law...

Not at all. Everywhere we see AK party directly involve themselves, it leads to failure. BMC/ALTAY is a core example of this. With Qatar being made the Major shareholder of BMC. Otokar designed and developed the thing, then AK party gave it to BMC and their friends at Qatar. Today still no tank.

Personally i'm not interested in identity politics, its a fools game. Muslims need to stop thinking cause corrupt politicians manipulate them that they owe them allegiance.

Its the same thing you guys do with the Palestinians, you side with them because you think they are "muslims" though they have always sided against Turkey. What matters is your actions, not the labels you attach to yourselves.
 

GoatsMilk

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Just look at what happened with s400 as an example. Brought Russian junk that gained Turkey no political leverage against Russia, meanwhile it forced America to double down on Turkey and place even more embargoes on items, let alone no F35.

As for Baykar unlike TAI, their drone initially was 90% forign parts from western sources. The same west Erdogan is doing everything to destroy relations with. Like i say identity politics is a fools game.
 
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