TR Politics

[Ryder]

The Constitution, like all constitutions, is nothing but a piece of paper that we have seen all across the world. When governments hollow out institutions, constitutions no longer hold much meaning. This is a sad truth, even the United States which worships it's constitution is seeing it ignored or diliberetly misinterprited.

I'm a constitutional monarchist because the monarchy acts as the embodiment of the constitution in those systems, which fights against unchecked self-destructive populism. This is why today's monarchies are the least corrupt nations on earth; the shit absolute monarchies in the Middle East are less corrupt than their republic counterparts.



Abdul Hamid II was not a great leader. Still, it wasn't he who lost those territories, but the Young Ottomans movement, which was created by idiots who thought that they could keep the empire together by transforming the empire into a democratic state while ignoring the fact that the minorities far outnumbered the Turkish population.

They lost the war to Russia, and when the Russian army was at the gates of Istanbul, Abdul Hamid II made a deal with Britain and France to save what was left of the empire.

Additionally, the context of Ottoman Islamism and the actions of the AKP party are entirely different. For the Ottoman state, Islamism was necessary, as the population of the Ottoman Empire was approximately 31.7 million, with Turks comprising around 9 million to 10 million, which accounted for 28.39% to 31.54% of the population.

Today the same population problem doesn't exist which makes AKP actions madness and not a reflection of Ottoman policy like you claim.



Firstly, calling someone ignorant and cahil is essentially the same thing; you don't need to do it twice. secondly, you forgot about the military getting involved in 1971 and the 1990s, both are called Coups.

As for the military returning power to the civilian government, I never said that they didn't. I just pointed out that the fact that the military needed to intervene was a sign that the system wasn't functioning as it should. It reveals institutional weakness that necessitated a coup in the first place.

I should also point out that you just highlighted my point about the relationship between the military and the republic.



Again, you didn't disprove anything. A single-party state is still classified as a dictatorship.



You keep saying that the system was fine, but it wasn't; the political system was constantly unstable and and the military, as you pointed out, needed to get involved constantly. The battle against Islamists isn't a new thing the Americans brought to Turkey; it has been around since Ottoman times. Islamists killed several sultans for trying to modernise the state, and they have long been in the background, trying to hollow out all the state institutions for their own benefit while using populism to do so.



I see you went to the Erdogan school of winning an argument just accuse everyone that has a different world view as you as a CIA backed Feto agents.

also i not to sure what you mean by young Turks if this is about an earlier discussion i have forgotten it.

None of the Islamic Empires regardless of Ethnic origin subscribed to Islamism.

Islamism is a ideology born out of Modernity just like with Conservatism. A reaction force.

Seljuks and the Ottomans were just Muslim Turks who ruled by Islamic Law at the same time would not be considered Islamists.

As majority of the Islamic Empires did recognise Dar Al Islam. Aka the land of Islam but at the same time concept of a united Ummah didnt really exist as most of the Islamic Empires were independant empires and kingdoms.

You could say the closest was the Rashidun, Ummayads, Abbassids led by the Arabs and for the Turks it was the Ottoman Empire.

Islamist Turks forget this was all held by military force.

The Ottomans tore into the Middle East with swords and guns not with flowers and chocolates.

It pisses me off how my ancestors conquests are all pussified to fit Akps bullshit agenda.

Arabs and Kurds were just soldiers of our empire nothing else. Same with Greeks and Serbs.

Turks were the backbone of the Gokturks, Mongols, Ottomans, Seljuks, Mughals, Emir Timurs Army, Ghaznavids and many more.

I dont care if the Sultans were immersed in Persian or Arab culture the military backbone has always been the Turks.

Doesnt matter if the Turkic Khans and Mongol Khans immersed themselves in the culture of the people they ruled. Their backbone has always been their own people.

Early Ottomans would never been successful if they relied on Greeks, Arabs, Kurds or Persians. Osman Gazis and his Sons achievements are so overlooked.

 

[Ryder]

The Constitution, like all constitutions, is nothing but a piece of paper that we have seen all across the world. When governments hollow out institutions, constitutions no longer hold much meaning. This is a sad truth, even the United States which worships it's constitution is seeing it ignored or diliberetly misinterprited.

I'm a constitutional monarchist because the monarchy acts as the embodiment of the constitution in those systems, which fights against unchecked self-destructive populism. This is why today's monarchies are the least corrupt nations on earth; the shit absolute monarchies in the Middle East are less corrupt than their republic counterparts.



Abdul Hamid II was not a great leader. Still, it wasn't he who lost those territories, but the Young Ottomans movement, which was created by idiots who thought that they could keep the empire together by transforming the empire into a democratic state while ignoring the fact that the minorities far outnumbered the Turkish population.

They lost the war to Russia, and when the Russian army was at the gates of Istanbul, Abdul Hamid II made a deal with Britain and France to save what was left of the empire.

Additionally, the context of Ottoman Islamism and the actions of the AKP party are entirely different. For the Ottoman state, Islamism was necessary, as the population of the Ottoman Empire was approximately 31.7 million, with Turks comprising around 9 million to 10 million, which accounted for 28.39% to 31.54% of the population.

Today the same population problem doesn't exist which makes AKP actions madness and not a reflection of Ottoman policy like you claim.



Firstly, calling someone ignorant and cahil is essentially the same thing; you don't need to do it twice. secondly, you forgot about the military getting involved in 1971 and the 1990s, both are called Coups.

As for the military returning power to the civilian government, I never said that they didn't. I just pointed out that the fact that the military needed to intervene was a sign that the system wasn't functioning as it should. It reveals institutional weakness that necessitated a coup in the first place.

I should also point out that you just highlighted my point about the relationship between the military and the republic.



Again, you didn't disprove anything. A single-party state is still classified as a dictatorship.



You keep saying that the system was fine, but it wasn't; the political system was constantly unstable and and the military, as you pointed out, needed to get involved constantly. The battle against Islamists isn't a new thing the Americans brought to Turkey; it has been around since Ottoman times. Islamists killed several sultans for trying to modernise the state, and they have long been in the background, trying to hollow out all the state institutions for their own benefit while using populism to do so.



I see you went to the Erdogan school of winning an argument just accuse everyone that has a different world view as you as a CIA backed Feto agents.

also i not to sure what you mean by young Turks if this is about an earlier discussion i have forgotten it.

My opinion of Sultan Abdulhamid II is neither anti or pro.

I do believe his hyped up to the point where he became a myth. So much myths surrounding him mainly due to Erdogan and his PR machine promoting Erdogan as the man who is Abdulhamid II who came back. Erdogans pr image has always been about him being past figures also numerous times tried promote himself as the Next Ataturk.

Kemalists hate his guts but Islamists in Turkiye overhype him as the best thing since slice bread.

He has his good and his bad thats about it. His biggest problem was ruling far too long and not getting a successor properly. He was dragging the empire with him that Young Abdulhamid who wanted to save the empire and its fortunes was no longer the same man when he was a old man.

The men who brought him down also fcked the empire up within 10 years.

Its interesting how this is all overlooked instead Ataturk is blamed for the collapse lmaoooo

Ataturk picked up the pieces of what Abdulhamid II, Mehmed Reshad, Vahdettin and the Young Turks left behind to at least make a nation out of broken glass.

Man never gets the credit he deserves at least. 100 years later people are still arguing over Sevres and Lausanne.

Kadir Misiroglus aka Turkish Dugin words are treated like holy words.

 

[No Name]

None of the Islamic Empires regardless of Ethnic origin subscribed to Islamism.

Islamism is a ideology born out of Modernity just like with Conservatism. A reaction force.

Seljuks and the Ottomans were just Muslim Turks who ruled by Islamic Law at the same time would not be considered Islamists.

As majority of the Islamic Empires did recognise Dar Al Islam. Aka the land of Islam but at the same time concept of a united Ummah didnt really exist as most of the Islamic Empires were independant empires and kingdoms.

You could say the closest was the Rashidun, Ummayads, Abbassids led by the Arabs and for the Turks it was the Ottoman Empire.

Islamist Turks forget this was all held by military force.

The Ottomans tore into the Middle East with swords and guns not with flowers and chocolates.

It pisses me off how my ancestors conquests are all pussified to fit Akps bullshit agenda.

Arabs and Kurds were just soldiers of our empire nothing else. Same with Greeks and Serbs.

Turks were the backbone of the Gokturks, Mongols, Ottomans, Seljuks, Mughals, Emir Timurs Army, Ghaznavids and many more.

I dont care if the Sultans were immersed in Persian or Arab culture the military backbone has always been the Turks.

Doesnt matter if the Turkic Khans and Mongol Khans immersed themselves in the culture of the people they ruled. Their backbone has always been their own people.

Early Ottomans would never been successful if they relied on Greeks, Arabs, Kurds or Persians. Osman Gazis and his Sons achievements are so overlooked.

When I say Islamist in the context of the Ottoman Empire, it is a reference to the state's attempt at creating a national identity in its later years. This was done do to the demographic problems i meantions in which the Turkish peoplemade less then 50% of the population in 1900. it is essentially sort of like how Pakistan uses islam as a way to forcefully creat an artifical identity.

My opinion of Sultan Abdulhamid II is neither anti or pro.

I do believe his hyped up to the point where he became a myth. So much myths surrounding him mainly due to Erdogan and his PR machine promoting Erdogan as the man who is Abdulhamid II who came back. Erdogans pr image has always been about him being past figures also numerous times tried promote himself as the Next Ataturk.

Kemalists hate his guts but Islamists in Turkiye overhype him as the best thing since slice bread.

He has his good and his bad thats about it. His biggest problem was ruling far too long and not getting a successor properly. He was dragging the empire with him that Young Abdulhamid who wanted to save the empire and its fortunes was no longer the same man when he was a old man.

The men who brought him down also fcked the empire up within 10 years.

Its interesting how this is all overlooked instead Ataturk is blamed for the collapse lmaoooo

Ataturk picked up the pieces of what Abdulhamid II, Mehmed Reshad, Vahdettin and the Young Turks left behind to at least make a nation out of broken glass.

Man never gets the credit he deserves at least. 100 years later people are still arguing over Sevres and Lausanne.

Kadir Misiroglus aka Turkish Dugin words are treated like holy words.

I agree with your take on Abdulhamid II.

As for Atatürk, he was a great hero due to his military accomplishments and for saving the Turkish people. My criticism of him comes from his use of France, a country that had been unstable for over 100 years, as a model for Turkey.

Especially since the unstable French republics had led to France lagging in 1852, the creation of the Second French Empire removed the Second Republic from power, led to France's modernisation, and maintained its status as a great power.

The Third Republic, which served as a model for Turkey, was an unstable entity, and many of the problems the Republic of Turkey faced were also experienced in France under the Third Republic.

I’m aware of your posts towards republic hence your anti-republic stance. All I can say is we’re on different pages

I guess we have to agree to disagree and respect each others difference of opinion.

 

[Khagan1923]

The Circassian National Assembly will be founded in İstanbul on 4-5 October 2025. Fruits of Lubnanisation...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1946853118047838405

Some minorities should be careful who they follow which path down. There are some paths from which there is no return and they might find them in a situation in a couple years where the "groups" they trusted suddenly vanished without a trace and they are left all alone with the wrath of 70 million Turks.

I think a lot of these minorities have forgotten in whose country they have been given safety. That safety can turn into hell real quick as seen in history over and over again. Maybe don't poke your host too much.

 

[Ryder]

The Circassian National Assembly will be founded in İstanbul on 4-5 October 2025. Fruits of Lubnanisation...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1946853118047838405

Its crazy how Circassians, Arabs, Kurds now Pomaks.

Think Turkiye owes them something.

Kurds were getting butchered by Shah Ismail welcome them into our lands.

Bashar Al Assad butchered Syrians and the Turks welcomed them.

Circassians were getting butchered by the Russians.

Unbelievable how these people have audacity to believe Turkiye and the Turks owe them something when it was the Turks who welcomed them.

Then they have audacity to cry racism.

Only thing Erdogan has done was make Non Turks in Turkiye all emboldened to break the country apart.

Whats next demand Circassian, Kurdish, Arabic, Greek and Armenian as state languages?

Go ask a Saudi to demand your language be a state language they will easily throw you into prison. Uae has more non Arabs than Arabs. Emiratis are demanding everybody speak Arabic.

Everybody knows how important it is in having 1 language in a country. If not it will be just no different to Austria-Hungary.

 

[Asena_great]

Abdul Hamid II was not a great leader. Still, it wasn't he who lost those territories, but the Young Ottomans movement, which was created by idiots who thought that they could keep the empire together by transforming the empire into a democratic state while ignoring the fact that the minorities far outnumbered the Turkish population.

They lost the war to Russia, and when the Russian army was at the gates of Istanbul, Abdul Hamid II made a deal with Britain and France to save what was left of the empire.

Parliament opened December 23, 1876 and closed February 13, 1878 it was opened just for 2 years which followed by 30 years of istibdat era of Abdul Hamid II. parliament did not have authority on making wars or govern, that authority lies with Abdul Hamid II.

following territories lost during istibdat era of Abdul Hamid II after parliment were closed !

you said young turks did that but young turks founded in 1889 and and came to power in 1908 and take over in 1909 via coup and finally deposing him. so WTF are you talking about ??

Additionally, the context of Ottoman Islamism and the actions of the AKP party are entirely different. For the Ottoman state, Islamism was necessary, as the population of the Ottoman Empire was approximately 31.7 million, with Turks comprising around 9 million to 10 million, which accounted for 28.39% to 31.54% of the population.

according to ottoman archive Turkish population before ww1 was 15 million with 10 million in Anatolia alone and 5 million in other eras

you forgot about the military getting involved in 1971 and the 1990s, both are called Coups.

WHAT ?? these are not coup and army did not take over the state. if you say its a coup then ok plz tell me exactly date that coup happened ?? the exact day

As for the military returning power to the civilian government, I never said that they didn't. I just pointed out that the fact that the military needed to intervene was a sign that the system wasn't functioning as it should. It reveals institutional weakness that necessitated a coup in the first place.

the first coup in 1960 maybe but its due to the mistake in constitution which later fixed that doesn't mean republic system is fundamentally flawed the the second coup was necessary due to the cold war interference by superpowers which btw can happen even in monarchist system and did happened during Abdul Hamid II's istibdad era

so you cherry pick 1 event and blame the republic system never works while ignoring all the other factors that lead to that event what a logic , so accordance to your logic the monarchist system fundamentally flawed and will never work because of all the lose of Abdul Hamid II

Again, you didn't disprove anything. A single-party state is still classified as a dictatorship.

according to whom ?? from 1955 to 1993 japan was single-party system democracy with internal factions the party in charge was LDP WTF are you talking about ???

You keep saying that the system was fine, but it wasn't; the political system was constantly unstable and and the military, as you pointed out, needed to get involved constantly.

army made only 2 coup one in 1960 and on in 1980 the second one was due to the cold war era foreign involvement in Turkish politics which btw as i point out before i could and did happened during Abdul Hamid II so we should concluded monarchism never work ??

The battle against Islamists isn't a new thing the Americans brought to Turkey; it has been around since Ottoman times. Islamists killed several sultans for trying to modernise the state, and they have long been in the background, trying to hollow out all the state institutions for their own benefit while using populism to do so.

that islamism and this islamism is not same thing the ottoman era islamism was turkish islamism which ended by atatürk the current islamism is new islamism created shaped and funded by Americans to combat communism which base on teaching of hassan al banna and sayyid qutb this is a post ww2 islamism those 2 are not same thing

The Constitution, like all constitutions, is nothing but a piece of paper that we have seen all across the world. When governments hollow out institutions, constitutions no longer hold much meaning.

anywhere else doesn't interest me constitutions in turkey hold even after Erdogan came to power the collapsed started from 2010 now we are living in post republic era which is unprecedented and and AKP created by permission of Americans.

This is why today's monarchies are the least corrupt nations on earth; the shit absolute monarchies in the Middle East are less corrupt than their republic counterparts.

I see you went to the Erdogan school of winning an argument just accuse everyone that has a different world view as you as a CIA backed Feto agents.

also i not to sure what you mean by young Turks if this is about an earlier discussion i have forgotten it.

where did i heard your misinformations before ?? oh yeah it was near 2010 referendum when there was Çözüm Süreci and ergenekon and balyoz trail and anti republic propaganda was on full swing. oh wait we are near new referandum with new Çözüm Süreci and again with new anti republic misinformation and propaganda campaign

this from you shooting at sight from that zaza seems you are all getting bolder by recent development

also i not to sure what you mean by young Turks if this is about an earlier discussion i have forgotten it.

ofc you did i wont wonder if you forget to answer this post as well

 

[TheInsider]

A state can function properly in the modern world if it is not a democratic republic (example China), but a state can't function properly in the modern world if it is not a nation state. No amount of Kaans, Kızılelmas will save us if we change the nation state model.