TR Propulsion Systems

Yasar_TR

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But doesn’t the engine designed atm already handle a speed close to what F-4 engines handle. So the difference up to super sonic would require huge heat resistance from the materials.

I know we can’t directly compare thrust with speed. But arouns wht speed would TF6K be able to handle on something lile Hurjet ?
First of all, F4 engine is a turbojet engine. This is not a matter of what speed engines can handle. That is more complex subject which needs airframe design to be taken in to consideration too.
To answer your question; NO! TF10K is not at the same thrust level as the J-79 engine powering F4 planes. J-79, develops just under 120000lbf dry thrust with nearly 18000lbf in wet. In other words twice more powerful as TF6K/TF10K

F4 engine too, when pushing the plane to supersonic speeds, would have to use divergent nozzles.

To fly Hurjet, we would need two of the TF10K engines installed.

1697122416306.jpeg
 

Saithan

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First of all, F4 engine is a turbojet engine. This is not a matter of what speed engines can handle. That is more complex subject which needs airframe design to be taken in to consideration too.
To answer your question; NO! TF10K is not at the same thrust level as the J-79 engine powering F4 planes. J-79, develops just under 120000lbf dry thrust with nearly 18000lbf in wet. In other words twice more powerful as TF6K/TF10K

F4 engine too, when pushing the plane to supersonic speeds, would have to use divergent nozzles.

To fly Hurjet, we would need two of the TF10K engines installed.

View attachment 61829
Ok so to sum it up (roughly)TF6K is currently delivers thrust enough to power an UAV like Akinci who doesn’t go super sonic.

I was certain that F-4 had cruise speed below 1M and only goes super sonic with afterburner.
 

Yasar_TR

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Ok so to sum it up (roughly)TF6K is currently delivers thrust enough to power an UAV like Akinci who doesn’t go super sonic.

I was certain that F-4 had cruise speed below 1M and only goes super sonic with afterburner.
You are still stuck on speed. It has nothing to do with speed. F4 , if at a high enough altitude can super cruise. It has done it. The Israelis even used a version they called “ Super-Phantom” that went supersonic without afterburners.

TF6K is an overkill for Akinci. Also Akinci just can not handle the thrust levels this engine can generate. Aerodynamically it is also NOT compatible. Even a turboprop version of TF6K would be 4 times too much for Akinci. TF6K will be ideal for Anka3 and KE.

Almost all fighter jets cruise at subsonic speeds. Even at super cruise they use too much fuel. With afterburners they drink fuel. So whenever possible they fly subsonic. F4 is the fastest plane we have in the fleet. It still holds almost a record altitude flight level of 98557 feet!
 

Saithan

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I can’t help it. It’s my logical mind that says how the relation between flow of mass divided by time should be equivalent to speed.

and constant thrust of 6K should be equivalent to a speed an object.

assuming the airframe can handle the thrust.

it should be possible to calculate speed under the assumption of ideal conditions 😁
 

Nilgiri

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I can’t help it. It’s my logical mind that says how the relation between flow of mass divided by time should be equivalent to speed.

Your logical mind is good one intuitively.

It can be applied soundly to the venturi effect of the (first part of) laval nozzle Yasar kindly expanded on a few posts earlier.

The gas molecules involved in this half (up to the choked flow at the throat) transmit information to each other perfectly.

So yes to preserve mass flow, the speed MUST increase as the cross sectional area is decreased...(and speed will decrease if cross sectional area is increased during subsonic flow).

The breaking of the sound barrier though means the molecules no longer transmit information to each other like they did. There are reversals that happen in the underlying characteristics of a gas flow....and so speed increases with cross sectional increase (rather than decreases as happens with subsonic flow).

Its the whole point of the laval nozzle in the end, to get sonic speed at the choked flow throat....to take advantage of the characteristics reversal at sonic speed and increase speed of the gas to supersonic.

The speed of "information" (conveyed by compression, pressure et al.) in a medium. That is what the speed of sound essentially is. Break it and the molecules can be "taken advantage of" for your benefit, they lose cohesion.

Stochastic analysis and simulation of this is of major ongoing relevance....along with all reversal phenomena in other physical equilibrium phenomena of the universe's reality according to our current capability to research and implement.
 
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Oublious

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It is a nice video about propulsion in the begin with historic approach first 20 min, looks like he is talking in a school. Nothing news, a good information for kids.
 

uçuyorum

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After they allowed so many parts of more advanced f414 to be produced in india might as well at this point
 

Lool

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Any news about TEI TF6000 engine?
I did read before that they were trying to ignite it on the 100th anniversary of the republic
 

Cabatli_TR

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What would be the power on the helicopter variant?

It remains on the table as a very powerful (output power) option(compared to current options) if preferred. The other option is the production of selected Ukrainian engine in Turkiye, along with maintenance, repair and co-development and export rights. I guess option 2 should be stronger now.
 

TR_123456

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It remains on the table as a very powerful (output power) option(compared to current options) if preferred. The other option is the production of selected Ukrainian engine in Turkiye, along with maintenance, repair and co-development and export rights. I guess option 2 should be stronger now.
I hope not,Ukrainian engine looks like a mistake(not enough power).
 

Yasar_TR

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It remains on the table as a very powerful (output power) option(compared to current options) if preferred. The other option is the production of selected Ukrainian engine in Turkiye, along with maintenance, repair and co-development and export rights. I guess option 2 should be stronger now.
Exactly!
The TF6000 engine will turn in to a turbo shaft engine of 5000-7000HP power level monster. That sort of power is good for tilt rotor used in Osprey like planes. That is an overkill for Atak2.

The 3000 HP power level turbo shaft we need, can best be achieved if TEI is asked to manufacture it with extra manpower and cash injection and starts a new engine program with the experience they have gathered when producing the 2000HP class T700-TEI701D engine for the Blackhawk program. They produce more than 70% of that engine in house including hot parts. So it wouldn’t take as long as the TS1400 program.
But that will mean taking resources away from the KAAN’s TF35K program. So it will have to be put in the back burner for the time being.
 

Rodeo

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Exactly!
The TF6000 engine will turn in to a turbo shaft engine of 5000-7000HP power level monster. That sort of power is good for tilt rotor used in Osprey like planes. That is an overkill for Atak2.

The 3000 HP power level turbo shaft we need, can best be achieved if TEI is asked to manufacture it with extra manpower and cash injection and starts a new engine program with the experience they have gathered when producing the 2000HP class T700-TEI701D engine for the Blackhawk program. They produce more than 70% of that engine in house including hot parts. So it wouldn’t take as long as the TS1400 program.
But that will mean taking resources away from the KAAN’s TF35K program. So it will have to be put in the back burner for the time being.
TS1400 is too powerful for AKINCI, TF6000 is too powerful for ATAK 2. TF35K will be too powerful for Hürjet.

Nice problems to have :) We'll fill these gaps once TEI has less on her plate.
 

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