TR Propulsion Systems

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,103
Reactions
126 15,236
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Turkish Airlines have placed a large engine order with Rolls Royce.
In addition to a recent order of 66 Trent series engines which included 40 XWB84 engines, THY has placed 100 new Trent XWB84 and 40 XWB97 engine orders. This will make THY the largest Rolls Royce engine operator in the world. These last orders are for the 70 new A350 Airbus’s. Turkey is planning to buy around 345 Airbus planes of which first batch of 220 has been confirmed; remainder being on option.


This is huge business for Airbus and for RR as well. Traditionally in the past THY has been buying Airbus planes that were powered by GE, P&W and mainly CFM engines (engines produced by GE and Safran consortium) .
This news comes in the wake of Turkish Kale and UK’s RR getting involved in the KAAN engine project, and the ever growing close relation between UK and Türkiye. Could be a prelude to more cooperation between the two countries.

This above news “overlaps” well with @Cabatli_TR ’s post related to RR and Kale getting involved in the development of the TF35K engine.
 

Kartal1

Experienced member
Lead Moderator
Messages
4,770
Reactions
86 17,793
Nation of residence
Bulgaria
Nation of origin
Turkey
Turkish Airlines have placed a large engine order with Rolls Royce.
In addition to a recent order of 66 Trent series engines which included 40 XWB84 engines, THY has placed 100 new Trent XWB84 and 40 XWB97 engine orders. This will make THY the largest Rolls Royce engine operator in the world. These last orders are for the 70 new A350 Airbus’s. Turkey is planning to buy around 345 Airbus planes of which first batch of 220 has been confirmed; remainder being on option.


This is huge business for Airbus and for RR as well. Traditionally in the past THY has been buying Airbus planes that were powered by GE, P&W and mainly CFM engines (engines produced by GE and Safran consortium) .
This news comes in the wake of Turkish Kale and UK’s RR getting involved in the KAAN engine project, and the ever growing close relation between UK and Türkiye. Could be a prelude to more cooperation between the two countries.

This above news “overlaps” well with @Cabatli_TR ’s post related to RR and Kale getting involved in the development of the TF35K engine.
Looks like strategic cooperation between Turkiye and the UK is moving on all fronts. I can't wait to see the fruits of this cooperation in the face of the KAAN project and especially TF35K.
 

neosinan

Committed member
Messages
226
Reactions
7 1,015
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
RR name has been around since forever but We couldn't agree on a deal.

In July of This year, Turkish Ceo is appointed and Within 6 months We solve our disagreement about TFX engine and Another Turkish company confirms huge engine deal. I am not saying there is a connection but I can how it might look like that.
 

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,249
Solutions
2
Reactions
101 23,493
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Turkish Airlines have placed a large engine order with Rolls Royce.
In addition to a recent order of 66 Trent series engines which included 40 XWB84 engines, THY has placed 100 new Trent XWB84 and 40 XWB97 engine orders. This will make THY the largest Rolls Royce engine operator in the world. These last orders are for the 70 new A350 Airbus’s. Turkey is planning to buy around 345 Airbus planes of which first batch of 220 has been confirmed; remainder being on option.


This is huge business for Airbus and for RR as well. Traditionally in the past THY has been buying Airbus planes that were powered by GE, P&W and mainly CFM engines (engines produced by GE and Safran consortium) .
This news comes in the wake of Turkish Kale and UK’s RR getting involved in the KAAN engine project, and the ever growing close relation between UK and Türkiye. Could be a prelude to more cooperation between the two countries.

This above news “overlaps” well with @Cabatli_TR ’s post related to RR and Kale getting involved in the development of the TF35K engine.

With how our companies have been disappointed with Ukrainian engines and suppliers, in terms of documentation, customer support, maintenance, spares, quality, integration and sometimes unavailable/unresponsive to emails, UK based companies could be a life saver for some major projects until the indigenous projects mature to be deployed in the field.

We know Kizilelma and Anka-3 engines have equivalent products, but what about Utility Helicopter, Atak-2, Akinci?
 

boredaf

Contributor
Messages
1,092
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 3,026
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
We know Kizilelma and Anka-3 engines have equivalent products, but what about Utility Helicopter, Atak-2, Akinci?
They have quite a lot of engines for civilian helicopters but I don't know if they have any with military qualifications, although given that they are RR, they certainly do.

And they do have some prop engines but do we really need them for Akıncı? Or maybe Hürkuş-2?
 

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,103
Reactions
126 15,236
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
We know Kizilelma and Anka-3 engines have equivalent products, but what about Utility Helicopter, Atak-2, Akinci?
The only helicopter engine they have that can power Atak 2 is the engine that powers Merlin helicopter; The RR - Turbomeca engine. It is now being produced by Safran Helicopter Engines who bought the engine rights from RR. It’s Aneto version develops upto 3000HP. But it is produced by a “French” Company!
They also produced the RR GEM engine for Lynx helicopters developing 1000-1100HP.

RR M250 is a 450HP turboprop engine
RR 500 is another turboprop with 470 HP
These are starter engines for Akinci.

RR used to produce from 1200 HP up to 3000 + HP “Dart” turboprops until late 80s. The design of the original dart engine goes back to 1946. As the market became too competitive they changed direction. RR bought Allison in US producing the engines for the Osprey Tilt Rotor.

Off the shelf, there are no engines they can give us in turboprops or turbo shafts. But like what we are expecting from them in the case of TF35K, they can help build an engine of 3000HP level. Also a 1000HP to 1500HP level turboprop.
But this means we have to find manpower and funds, to allocate for these new projects.
 
Last edited:

Yasar_TR

Experienced member
Staff member
Administrator
Messages
3,103
Reactions
126 15,236
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
1703209214068.jpeg

1703209254911.jpeg


Can you see the likeness between the two engines in these two pictures?
We were expecting TF6000 to be fired.
TEI is advertising TF10000.
Now that would be a very nice New Year present to the nation if it were true.
 

Baklava Consumer

Active member
Messages
52
Reactions
159
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
It looks like the Indians ditched Rolls-Royce and Safran for engine development.

Rolls Royce offered them IP rights, technology transfer, and Indian production.
But they went along with GE.

Maybe they'll feel the pressure and offer us a similar deal because they seem to be having some financial difficulties.

Although it could be a pipe dream.
 

DBdev

Committed member
Messages
298
Reactions
8 524
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Why do you western loving Turks think we still need RR or GE when a top scientist from GE main office, our current TEI CEO repeatedly tells us TEI can make any size and thrust engine including latest blisk version of F110?

Not to mention TRmotor and Kale Aero just in aero engines category that makes 3 firms with turbofan engine designs on schedule. I can understand sharing the cost of engine deveopment with a rich or more experienced partner but if only those partners are trustworthy. British , Americans, West, time and again proved that they lie, cheat and if necessary even murder to not let us be technologically self sufficient. Thats an enemy, not a friend. Partnering with them on anything at alll sounds like total insanity to me. If you don't believe me, go ask Zelensky, their latest "partner". They promised Ukraine NATO as well as EU. Poor guy was so excited. But we all knew western promises mean nothing, didn't we?
 

Nilgiri

Experienced member
Moderator
Aviation Specialist
Messages
9,502
Reactions
111 19,268
Nation of residence
Canada
Nation of origin
India
It looks like the Indians ditched Rolls-Royce and Safran for engine development.

RR largely yes (unless something springs a surprise later).

But Safran has very strong + close engine development ongoing with India.

They are very interested in defeating the Americans for the AMCA powerplant.

It may be difficult given economy of scale by then regd F414, but we will have to see, since Safran are intelligently investing in capacities well upstream (to a military turbofan) and getting those all sorted out and proven reliably with India....rather than just sitting idle now and try front loading everything later.
 

boredaf

Contributor
Messages
1,092
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 3,026
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
Why do you western loving Turks think we still need RR or GE when a top scientist from GE main office, our current TEI CEO repeatedly tells us TEI can make any size and thrust engine including latest blisk version of F110?

Not to mention TRmotor and Kale Aero just in aero engines category that makes 3 firms with turbofan engine designs on schedule. I can understand sharing the cost of engine deveopment with a rich or more experienced partner but if only those partners are trustworthy. British , Americans, West, time and again proved that they lie, cheat and if necessary even murder to not let us be technologically self sufficient. Thats an enemy, not a friend. Partnering with them on anything at alll sounds like total insanity to me. If you don't believe me, go ask Zelensky, their latest "partner". They promised Ukraine NATO as well as EU. Poor guy was so excited. But we all knew western promises mean nothing, didn't we?
An official from a company saying they can do it, doesn't mean they can do it in time, or just as good. TF-6000 should've had its first ignition before 2023 ends according to multiple statements from TEI officials yet it didn't happen. And Kale created a joint venture with Rolls Royce to offer an engine for Kaan, not by itself. TRMotor doesn't even have an engine, just power units. While appreciate our companies and engineers, this bravado when it comes to engine development doesn't help us at all.

It would be insanity to reject a fair offer (if it is a fair offer) of partnership from RR because while we are taking the first steps in regards to engines, they have been running marathons for decades. We are literally trying to do what they have done decades ago, their help would be invaluable to quicken the process and get an engine that we can produce ourselves in time.

Blind hatred of "the West" is dangerous and illogical, do you know who are our biggest trade partners? The West that you hate so much, Russia is the only country that breaks top 10 that's outside the Western powers. We are intertwined with the West economically and militarily, and that is not a bad thing. Why would you want to be like "the East"? Whose the shining example there, Russia that is run by mafia or China which is a dictatorship that puts Muslims in camps?

And Ukraine would've already fallen without Western help, that is not even a speculation, it is a fact. Only thing that kept Ukraine in this war has been Western weapons and munitions. And ours of course. Nobody promised Zelensky NATO before the war ends, NATO literally cannot accept members that are in active conflicts. And it has become a candidate for EU membership, again, they can't just say "you're in mate" and be done with it. You're twisting facts to fit your narrative.

It would be monumentally stupid to refuse a fair deal from RR to help us with the engine, just because they are a Western company. Jet engine development is one of the most challenging engineering feats out there and if it can be done quicker with their help than so be it.
 

Zafer

Experienced member
Messages
4,590
Reactions
7 7,257
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Have some faith in Turkish engineering. We don't want to share our achievements with foreigners because their name will shadow our achievenments like we didn't achieve a thing. I would keep them off of our projects at all costs.
 

IC3M@N FX

Committed member
Messages
156
Reactions
4 284
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
The important thing is that full ownership of the engine belongs entirely to Turkey.
And that all components in the engine can easily be manufactured in-house without being tied to a supplier from abroad.
Without that, you don't even need to sit down at the table.
The second condition should be that as soon as the partner agrees to comply with the basic conditions, but later withdraws for any reason or for political reasons, a claim for damages in the billions has to be paid as security.
This would prevent any foreign politicians from trying to sabotage the project and put pressure on company XY to end the partnership overnight.
This would cause extreme financial damage to the country concerned, and no politician would dare to do this as soon as the country's own money was at stake.
This is not a kindergarten project either right or not at all, if a company declares itself to provide help from abroad and receives money and synergies in the form of know-how from the Turkish state and its engineers for its own future products, then it must also bear full responsibility for this.
In parallel, TEI should continue to develop its own engine as a plan B, even if it takes longer.
 

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,341
Reactions
28 19,143
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
View attachment 64123
View attachment 64124

Can you see the likeness between the two engines in these two pictures?
We were expecting TF6000 to be fired.
TEI is advertising TF10000.
Now that would be a very nice New Year present to the nation if it were true.
All that waiting for TF6000 and now they’ve changed it to TF10000. How long are we going to wait for that one ?

I would prefer proof of production of TF6000 and installed on a ucav or whatever platform and conducted tests.

remember how Japan made their own 5th gen, but didn’t produce more than one, we’re not even doing the same but proceeding to next level.

Thus I consider this propoganda material. If people don’t believe in our defense sector, it’s because of poor PR and proof. Well nothing new there we don’t understand marketing.

even if costs 50 million usd to fit TF6000 into a platform and fly with it. That’s the money you have to spend!
 

boredaf

Contributor
Messages
1,092
Solutions
1
Reactions
11 3,026
Nation of residence
United Kingdom
Nation of origin
Turkey
All that waiting for TF6000 and now they’ve changed it to TF10000. How long are we going to wait for that one ?

I would prefer proof of production of TF6000 and installed on a ucav or whatever platform and conducted tests.

remember how Japan made their own 5th gen, but didn’t produce more than one, we’re not even doing the same but proceeding to next level.

Thus I consider this propoganda material. If people don’t believe in our defense sector, it’s because of poor PR and proof. Well nothing new there we don’t understand marketing.

even if costs 50 million usd to fit TF6000 into a platform and fly with it. That’s the money you have to spend!
Edit: I have no idea why the site deleted my post while posting it lol

Mate, TF-6000 hasn't even been ignited yet, even if they do it today, we are a year or two away from it being installed on an UAV and fly; and that is if there are no problems or complications with it. There are ton of test to be done on the ground before we are at that point, so you're going to have to be patient.
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom