TR Propulsion Systems

[Quasar]

Turbofan Missile Engine from Kale Arge!

Turkish defense industry company Kale Arge announced that it has started development activities for the 'Turbofan Missile Engine'. Thus, Türkiye will be able to develop longer-range cruise missiles. Kale Arge General Manager Cüneyt Kenger, answering the questions of SavunmaSanayiST regarding the issue, made important statements. Kenger emphasized that turbofan engines have higher fuel efficiency than turbojet engines, and on the other hand, they are heavier. Referring to Kale Arge's experience in the field of turbojet missile engines with the KTJ-3200, KTJ-1750, KTJ-3700 and ARAT Projects, Cüneyt Kenger said, "I would not say that we should gradually switch to turbofans, but we consider it to be the right time to add turbofans to our portfolio. We have also started working on turbofans." We are here, as of 2023. When we say turbofan, we mean small and expendable engines for missile platforms, as per our mission. "We have started conceptual studies of such a turbofan engine." he said.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1749112476266836378

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Turbofan Missile Engine from Kale Arge!

Turkish defense industry company Kale Arge announced that it has started development activities for the 'Turbofan Missile Engine'. Thus, Türkiye will be able to develop longer-range cruise missiles. Kale Arge General Manager Cüneyt Kenger, answering the questions of SavunmaSanayiST regarding the issue, made important statements. Kenger emphasized that turbofan engines have higher fuel efficiency than turbojet engines, and on the other hand, they are heavier. Referring to Kale Arge's experience in the field of turbojet missile engines with the KTJ-3200, KTJ-1750, KTJ-3700 and ARAT Projects, Cüneyt Kenger said, "I would not say that we should gradually switch to turbofans, but we consider it to be the right time to add turbofans to our portfolio. We have also started working on turbofans." We are here, as of 2023. When we say turbofan, we mean small and expendable engines for missile platforms, as per our mission. "We have started conceptual studies of such a turbofan engine." he said.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1749112476266836378

Gezgin?

 

[Quasar]

Gezgin?

there is ARAT Projects i.e turbojet engine for Gezgin but seems that there is an intention for longer-range cruise missiles and Kale has a turbofan engine project at conceptual studies stage

-still open to speculation but seems that Gezgin cruise missile can also be air launchable as well

- longer-range cruise missiles with turbofan may potentially be limted to land based launchers and VLSs of TF 2000, Milden and İstif class if needed in the future

 

[KhanOfEurasia]

Does Turkish Institutes undertake Scintific Studies for Rotating Detonation Engines ?

 

[TheInsider]

Does Turkish Institutes undertake Scintific Studies for Rotating Detonation Engines ?

Yes. Tübitak works on a continuously rotating detonation engine.

TÜBİTAK SAGE'den sürekli döngülü detonasyon motoru

Defence Turk, Dr. Bülent SÜMER ile TÜBİTAK SAGE’nin sürekli döngülü detonasyon motoru çalışmalarına dair bir söyleşi gerçekleştirdi. SDDM’nin ne olup ne olmadığına dair detayların mevcut ve potansiyel kullanım alanlarıyla açıklandığı söyleşi Defence Turk'te.

www.defenceturk.net

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1749373827522404798

Kale Arge will make the first delivery of the KTJ-3700 Turbojet Engine to be used in the KARA ATMACA Cruise Missile within a few days.

Roketsan continues its development activities for the KARA ATMACA Surface-to-Surface Cruise Missile, based on the ATMACA Anti-Ship Missile in the inventory of the Naval Forces Command.

In this context, Kale Arge will deliver the national engine KTJ-3700, used in KARA ATMACA, to Roketsan within a few days.

Regarding the issue, Kale Arge General Manager Cüneyt Kenger said in a statement to SavunmaSanayiST: “Our KTJ-3700 engine is a turbojet engine that has superior features compared to its equivalents in the world. As its name suggests, it has a thrust of 3700 Newtons. But our engine is still low in weight and has lower fuel consumption than its equivalents.

We conducted the first prototype test in 2023. It was very successful. Prototype production is currently continuing. We will deliver our first engine to our customer next week. “It quickly became an engine that we are very proud of.” statements were included.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

That would be 3.7 KN thrust for an 800 - 900 kg cruise missile.
I wonder if 1100 km/h would be possible, just below the sound barrier (1200 km/h).

For comparison, the Harpoon cruise missile weighs just under 700 kg and the engine has about 2.9 KN at 864 km/h.

There is probably little difference between the two, although the Atmaca & Kara Atmaca may have a slightly larger warhead, again offsetting the additional power of the engine.

 

[MhhJA]

First Vuran vehicles with indigenous engine "TUNA" were accepted into the inventory of TSK.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1752983375680577619

 

[Rodeo]

TEI is the biggest supplier of the GEnx engine program.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1756930738971124015

 

[boredaf]

TEI is the biggest supplier of the GEnx engine program.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1756930738971124015

Now, if only they could supply us with the first ignition video of TF6000...

 

[Baryshx]

Turbofan Missile Engine from Kale Arge!

Turkish defense industry company Kale Arge announced that it has started development activities for the 'Turbofan Missile Engine'. Thus, Türkiye will be able to develop longer-range cruise missiles. Kale Arge General Manager Cüneyt Kenger, answering the questions of SavunmaSanayiST regarding the issue, made important statements. Kenger emphasized that turbofan engines have higher fuel efficiency than turbojet engines, and on the other hand, they are heavier. Referring to Kale Arge's experience in the field of turbojet missile engines with the KTJ-3200, KTJ-1750, KTJ-3700 and ARAT Projects, Cüneyt Kenger said, "I would not say that we should gradually switch to turbofans, but we consider it to be the right time to add turbofans to our portfolio. We have also started working on turbofans." We are here, as of 2023. When we say turbofan, we mean small and expendable engines for missile platforms, as per our mission. "We have started conceptual studies of such a turbofan engine." he said.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1749112476266836378

I guess it will most probably be under the supervision or in partnership with Rolls-Royce. This issue will become clearer in the future.

 

[Quasar]

I guess it will most probably be under the supervision or in partnership with Rolls-Royce. This issue will become clearer in the future.

I strongly believe that mass produced, one time use with very low life span (but still reliable enough) turbofan MISSILE engine is with in Kale's capabilities now, but yes everthing is possible

 

[Nilgiri]

I guess it will most probably be under the supervision or in partnership with Rolls-Royce. This issue will become clearer in the future.

Cruise missile jet engines are well within Turkiye's current capability. These are just one time use, that takes a huge amount of engineering challenge away.....so Rolls Royce level of cooperation is not required as Turkiye has the proven capacity here already.

 

[Nilgiri]

TEI is the biggest supplier of the GEnx engine program.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1756930738971124015

I guess by raw part numbers done (40+ apparently)? Brochure:

https://www.tei.com.tr/uploads/docs/1693074403_genxen.pdf?1693074628

Revenue wise (TEI) its decent start and progress but a long way to go:

https://www.tei.com.tr/uploads/docs/tei-post/1597910989_tei-post131eng.pdf

Is there annual report sheet to compare capital, assets (capex) vs opex vis a vis GE for example?

GE has 75 billion revenue yearly and about double that for market cap.

I can't find market cap for TEI. I guess because its JV between TAI and GE. TAI has yearly revenue around 2 - 3 billion USD now it seems....but no market cap I think since its not publicly listed?

In the larger sense for all of this, Turkish economic fundamentals have to be secured and made resilient in mid to long term....to give better valuations and investment flows. But this has been less than ideal.

 

[dBSPL]

I guess by raw part numbers done (40+ apparently)? Brochure:

https://www.tei.com.tr/uploads/docs/1693074403_genxen.pdf?1693074628

Revenue wise (TEI) its decent start and progress but a long way to go:

https://www.tei.com.tr/uploads/docs/tei-post/1597910989_tei-post131eng.pdf

Is there annual report sheet to compare capital, assets (capex) vs opex vis a vis GE for example?

GE has 75 billion revenue yearly and about double that for market cap.

I can't find market cap for TEI. I guess because its JV between TAI and GE. TAI has yearly revenue around 2 - 3 billion USD now it seems....but no market cap I think since its not publicly listed?

In the larger sense for all of this, Turkish economic fundamentals have to be secured and made resilient in mid to long term....to give better valuations and investment flows. But this has been less than ideal.

Hi Nilgiri, since TEI and TAI are not listed on the ISE, their detailed balance sheets are not available in open sources. However, we know that TEI's balance sheet is autonomous from TAI's. TAI's announced annual turnover, excluding JVs, comes directly from the company's own operations. As an example, the Istanbul Chamber of Industry (ISO) publishes a benchmark that ranks TR's largest industrial companies according to their turnover. In these lists, when we look at the top 500 companies from the defense and aerospace industries, the turnover of TAI and its subsidiaries are listed separately. If I can find the 2023 figures, I will share them separately, but based on 2022, TAI was ranked 30th in this list (around 1.3 billion dollars at the then USD exchange rate), while TEI was ranked 190th (around 270 million dollars at the then USD exchange rate).

https://iso500.org.tr/Dosyalar/Makale/Liste/4161fe/iso-i-500-2022-l.pdf

p.114, p.178

 

[Ecderha]

TEI General Manager: Professor Doctor Mahmut Faruk Akşit said:

-Our TF6000 engine is now in its final stage.
-Now we can say that we have reached the trial stage.
-In addition, we made the first export of our PD170 engine.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1759601427133927824

 

[Agha Sher]

TEI General Manager: Professor Doctor Mahmut Faruk Akşit said:

-Our TF6000 engine is now in its final stage.
-Now we can say that we have reached the trial stage.
-In addition, we made the first export of our PD170 engine.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1759601427133927824

In the final stage of what?

Srsly, the CEO of TEI, TAI etc. needs to work on their communication. recently they really undermined themselves and their companies...

 

[Ecderha]

In the final stage of what?

Srsly, the CEO of TEI, TAI etc. needs to work on their communication. recently they really undermined themselves and their companies...

My understanding is that the next step/stage is to run the engine as first test

 

[uçuyorum]

My understanding is that the next step/stage is to run the engine as first test

So final stage of building the first proptotype

 

[Baryshx]

TEI General Manager: Professor Doctor Mahmut Faruk Akşit said:

-Our TF6000 engine is now in its final stage.
-Now we can say that we have reached the trial stage.
-In addition, we made the first export of our PD170 engine.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1759601427133927824

Explanation; Actually it is finished, we are waiting for the election for the trial stage.

Or are my thoughts mischievous?

The blame lies with those who push us into such thoughts.