TR Propulsion Systems

[Cabatli_TR]

Ametist Project: Process development project for additive manufacturing

 

[Saithan]

Yes, very nice, but is it possible to show which components of an engine could potentially be made with these technologies ?

Perhaps someone who knows could snapshot a engine and color the components in three different colors.

It would go a long way for people to understand these technologies contribution.

 

[TheInsider]

Yes, very nice, but is it possible to show which components of an engine could potentially be made with these technologies ?

Perhaps someone who knows could snapshot a engine and color the components in three different colors.

It would go a long way for people to understand these technologies contribution.

SİCİM is arguably the most important project of SSB at the moment. Silicon carbide (SiC) fibers will be developed in the scope of SİCİM project. Those fibers will be used to produce hot-section turbine blades and replace single-crystal superalloys. Phase 1 of the project covers the production of high-quality SiC that can be used to produce SiC fibers thinner than a strand of human hair and prove that those fibers have required mechanical and thermal characteristics. Phase 2 will involve coming up with a serial production process and product standardization.
Those thin fibers are coated with a very special coating and woven/embedded together inside a SiC matrix to create a turbine blade that is as tough as a single crystal superalloy blade but not brittle like ceramic. The end product has only 1/3 weight of a single-crystal superalloy blade and can withstand temperatures a lot higher than single-crystal blades. Low blade weight means lower centrifugal forces which means thinner shafts etc. A big reduction in total engine weight and higher thrust-to-weight ratio. Higher operating temperatures mean higher thrust and more efficiency/lower fuel consumption. CMC is the next big thing in turbines and anyone who masters the tech will make huge money. Currently, GE is leading followed by IHI and TEI is in a good position. If SİCİM is announced as a project it means it already passed some milestones. TEI was subsidizing Phd thesis and it seems the results are good so this official project is launched.

AMETİST project is for the cold section. TEI wants to produce MMC (Metal Matrix Composite) parts for the cold section of the engine by using additive manufacturing so TEI is developing a melting process for metal dust by using a laser. This is a process development project directly related to production.

ÖTEKTİK is another CMC project for the hot section but it is for the fixed parts like combustion chambers, exhaust mixers etc.

 

[Heartbang]

SİCİM is arguably the most important project of SSB at the moment. Silicon carbide (SiC) fibers will be developed in the scope of SİCİM project. Those fibers will be used to produce hot-section turbine blades and replace single-crystal superalloys. Phase 1 of the project covers the production of high-quality SiC that can be used to produce SiC fibers thinner than a strand of human hair and prove that those fibers have required mechanical and thermal characteristics. Phase 2 will involve coming up with a serial production process and product standardization.
Those thin fibers are coated with a very special coating and woven/embedded together inside a SiC matrix to create a turbine blade that is as tough as a single crystal superalloy blade but not brittle like ceramic. The end product has only 1/3 weight of a single-crystal superalloy blade and can withstand temperatures a lot higher than single-crystal blades. Low blade weight means lower centrifugal forces which means thinner shafts etc. A big reduction in total engine weight and higher thrust-to-weight ratio. Higher operating temperatures mean higher thrust and more efficiency/lower fuel consumption. CMC is the next big thing in turbines and anyone who masters the tech will make huge money. Currently, GE is leading followed by IHI and TEI is in a good position. If SİCİM is announced as a project it means it already passed some milestones. TEI was subsidizing Phd thesis and it seems the results are good so this official project is launched.

AMETİST project is for the cold section. TEI wants to produce MMC (Metal Matrix Composite) parts for the cold section of the engine by using additive manufacturing so TEI is developing a melting process for metal dust by using a laser. This is a process development project directly related to production.

ÖTEKTİK is another CMC project for the hot section but it is for the fixed parts like combustion chambers, exhaust mixers etc.

Great news all around. Hope we'll see similar good news on rotating detonation engine projects!

 

[DBdev]

One of the most informative interviews about the state of Turkish missile propulsion engines and Kale Arge.

Land based anti-ship missile engine for Atmaca, KTJ-3700 is still a prototype and going through lab tests.

Arat apparently would be similar to KTJ-3700 with higher compression. I was hoping larger diameter and much higher thrust to support a big 1 ton warhead and 1000+km range. But they said they are making the engines able to run much longer durations. So there is still hope for my 1000+km, nuclear capable Gezgin cruise missile that could hit anywhere in Israel with overwhelming surface-hugging barrages. I am not sure we will ever be able to produce those in numbers to overwhelm Israel's intense air defenses though. That is a necessity to kill decades long active Greater Israel project CIA, Neo-cons have started with invasion of Iraq & Syria.

Tomahawk like more fuel efficient small turbofan engine for longer ranges is still in concept stage. They have no small turbofan engines to copy from like they did with French TRI-40. So I am less hopeful about that.

 

[what]

Good post and nice video, but please don't derail the thread with speculation about who it will be used against. Feel free to do that in an appropriate thread. This thread is about the development of our propulsion systems and nothing else.

 

[Quasar]

Turbofan Missile Engine from Kale Arge!

Turkish defense industry company Kale Arge announced that it has started development activities for the 'Turbofan Missile Engine'. Thus, Türkiye will be able to develop longer-range cruise missiles. Kale Arge General Manager Cüneyt Kenger, answering the questions of SavunmaSanayiST regarding the issue, made important statements. Kenger emphasized that turbofan engines have higher fuel efficiency than turbojet engines, and on the other hand, they are heavier. Referring to Kale Arge's experience in the field of turbojet missile engines with the KTJ-3200, KTJ-1750, KTJ-3700 and ARAT Projects, Cüneyt Kenger said, "I would not say that we should gradually switch to turbofans, but we consider it to be the right time to add turbofans to our portfolio. We have also started working on turbofans." We are here, as of 2023. When we say turbofan, we mean small and expendable engines for missile platforms, as per our mission. "We have started conceptual studies of such a turbofan engine." he said.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1749112476266836378

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Turbofan Missile Engine from Kale Arge!

Turkish defense industry company Kale Arge announced that it has started development activities for the 'Turbofan Missile Engine'. Thus, Türkiye will be able to develop longer-range cruise missiles. Kale Arge General Manager Cüneyt Kenger, answering the questions of SavunmaSanayiST regarding the issue, made important statements. Kenger emphasized that turbofan engines have higher fuel efficiency than turbojet engines, and on the other hand, they are heavier. Referring to Kale Arge's experience in the field of turbojet missile engines with the KTJ-3200, KTJ-1750, KTJ-3700 and ARAT Projects, Cüneyt Kenger said, "I would not say that we should gradually switch to turbofans, but we consider it to be the right time to add turbofans to our portfolio. We have also started working on turbofans." We are here, as of 2023. When we say turbofan, we mean small and expendable engines for missile platforms, as per our mission. "We have started conceptual studies of such a turbofan engine." he said.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1749112476266836378

Gezgin?

 

[Quasar]

Gezgin?

there is ARAT Projects i.e turbojet engine for Gezgin but seems that there is an intention for longer-range cruise missiles and Kale has a turbofan engine project at conceptual studies stage

-still open to speculation but seems that Gezgin cruise missile can also be air launchable as well

- longer-range cruise missiles with turbofan may potentially be limted to land based launchers and VLSs of TF 2000, Milden and İstif class if needed in the future

 

[BaburKhan]

Does Turkish Institutes undertake Scintific Studies for Rotating Detonation Engines ?

 

[TheInsider]

Does Turkish Institutes undertake Scintific Studies for Rotating Detonation Engines ?

Yes. Tübitak works on a continuously rotating detonation engine.

TÜBİTAK SAGE'den sürekli döngülü detonasyon motoru

Defence Turk, Dr. Bülent SÜMER ile TÜBİTAK SAGE’nin sürekli döngülü detonasyon motoru çalışmalarına dair bir söyleşi gerçekleştirdi. SDDM’nin ne olup ne olmadığına dair detayların mevcut ve potansiyel kullanım alanlarıyla açıklandığı söyleşi Defence Turk'te.

www.defenceturk.net

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1749373827522404798

Kale Arge will make the first delivery of the KTJ-3700 Turbojet Engine to be used in the KARA ATMACA Cruise Missile within a few days.

Roketsan continues its development activities for the KARA ATMACA Surface-to-Surface Cruise Missile, based on the ATMACA Anti-Ship Missile in the inventory of the Naval Forces Command.

In this context, Kale Arge will deliver the national engine KTJ-3700, used in KARA ATMACA, to Roketsan within a few days.

Regarding the issue, Kale Arge General Manager Cüneyt Kenger said in a statement to SavunmaSanayiST: “Our KTJ-3700 engine is a turbojet engine that has superior features compared to its equivalents in the world. As its name suggests, it has a thrust of 3700 Newtons. But our engine is still low in weight and has lower fuel consumption than its equivalents.

We conducted the first prototype test in 2023. It was very successful. Prototype production is currently continuing. We will deliver our first engine to our customer next week. “It quickly became an engine that we are very proud of.” statements were included.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

That would be 3.7 KN thrust for an 800 - 900 kg cruise missile.
I wonder if 1100 km/h would be possible, just below the sound barrier (1200 km/h).

For comparison, the Harpoon cruise missile weighs just under 700 kg and the engine has about 2.9 KN at 864 km/h.

There is probably little difference between the two, although the Atmaca & Kara Atmaca may have a slightly larger warhead, again offsetting the additional power of the engine.

 

[MhhJA]

First Vuran vehicles with indigenous engine "TUNA" were accepted into the inventory of TSK.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1752983375680577619

 

[Rodeo]

TEI is the biggest supplier of the GEnx engine program.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1756930738971124015

 

[boredaf]

TEI is the biggest supplier of the GEnx engine program.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1756930738971124015

Now, if only they could supply us with the first ignition video of TF6000...

 

[Baryshx]

Turbofan Missile Engine from Kale Arge!

Turkish defense industry company Kale Arge announced that it has started development activities for the 'Turbofan Missile Engine'. Thus, Türkiye will be able to develop longer-range cruise missiles. Kale Arge General Manager Cüneyt Kenger, answering the questions of SavunmaSanayiST regarding the issue, made important statements. Kenger emphasized that turbofan engines have higher fuel efficiency than turbojet engines, and on the other hand, they are heavier. Referring to Kale Arge's experience in the field of turbojet missile engines with the KTJ-3200, KTJ-1750, KTJ-3700 and ARAT Projects, Cüneyt Kenger said, "I would not say that we should gradually switch to turbofans, but we consider it to be the right time to add turbofans to our portfolio. We have also started working on turbofans." We are here, as of 2023. When we say turbofan, we mean small and expendable engines for missile platforms, as per our mission. "We have started conceptual studies of such a turbofan engine." he said.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1749112476266836378

I guess it will most probably be under the supervision or in partnership with Rolls-Royce. This issue will become clearer in the future.

 

[Quasar]

I guess it will most probably be under the supervision or in partnership with Rolls-Royce. This issue will become clearer in the future.

I strongly believe that mass produced, one time use with very low life span (but still reliable enough) turbofan MISSILE engine is with in Kale's capabilities now, but yes everthing is possible

 

[Nilgiri]

I guess it will most probably be under the supervision or in partnership with Rolls-Royce. This issue will become clearer in the future.

Cruise missile jet engines are well within Turkiye's current capability. These are just one time use, that takes a huge amount of engineering challenge away.....so Rolls Royce level of cooperation is not required as Turkiye has the proven capacity here already.

 

[Nilgiri]

TEI is the biggest supplier of the GEnx engine program.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1756930738971124015

I guess by raw part numbers done (40+ apparently)? Brochure:

https://www.tei.com.tr/uploads/docs/1693074403_genxen.pdf?1693074628

Revenue wise (TEI) its decent start and progress but a long way to go:

https://www.tei.com.tr/uploads/docs/tei-post/1597910989_tei-post131eng.pdf

Is there annual report sheet to compare capital, assets (capex) vs opex vis a vis GE for example?

GE has 75 billion revenue yearly and about double that for market cap.

I can't find market cap for TEI. I guess because its JV between TAI and GE. TAI has yearly revenue around 2 - 3 billion USD now it seems....but no market cap I think since its not publicly listed?

In the larger sense for all of this, Turkish economic fundamentals have to be secured and made resilient in mid to long term....to give better valuations and investment flows. But this has been less than ideal.