TR Propulsion Systems

[Cabatli_TR]

Not salty ,just realistic .


I am just saying that the fighter jet design of tfx require much power than the capability of current technology of turkey , so either you spend some 4-5 billion + in just this decade or you can't make the engine reality in 20229 timeframe .

What's your profession ?What knowledge and experience do you have to make such assertive statements on these issues? Do you think you are a metallurgy professor with two lines you read on the internet? Forget gas turbine engines, first of all, you need to learn the rules of dialogue necessary for a proper and healthy discussion.

 

[nakaFH]

Too low , won't work for m88 class engine , it's not too big of a achivement here , it need to be 1600°c + for a ge 414 type , above that you need silicon composites in blades (not exhaust) , as per your thrust requirements for such humongous jet .

Otherwise take help of some oem

First of all we MUST appriciate our brave and clever engineers for for this type of achievement. Up to now have you ever heard "single crystal turbine blade" manufacturing other than 6 or 7 countries.
And because of the manufacturing method the lifetime of ours is said that better than Russian ones and hope so.
You are speaking as though so simple and easy to manufacture.Have you ever dare to take this amount risk and get it? Please, all of us should be respectful to priceless labors. We have no rights to underestimate all these achievements...

 

[Profchaos]

Did we get any information about idealab 1600 ?

 

[Spook]

Did we get any information about idealab 1600 ?

Their engines seem ideal for target drones and for testing, education purposes.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428073219320332296

KTJ-1600 (OMGSF)
KTJ-3200 (Atmaca and SOM)
KTJ-3900 (Gezgin)

 

[Abdelaziz]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428073219320332296

KTJ-1600 (OMGSF)
KTJ-3200 (Atmaca and SOM)
KTJ-3900 (Gezgin)

For gezgin u dont need only more power ..but different lubrication mechanism ... Instead of fuel lubrication u have to go for oil lubrication

 

[Profchaos]

Their engines seem ideal for target drones and for testing, education purposes.

Why is that?

 

[Yasar_TR]

What's your profession ?What knowledge and experience do you have to make such assertive statements on these issues? Do you think you are a metallurgy professor with two lines you read on the internet? Forget gas turbine engines, first of all, you need to learn the rules of dialogue necessary for a proper and healthy discussion.

@Lonewolf ‘s approach to the whole argument is too pedantic and far too critical.
Looking at the specs given for the single crystal blades for a specific end use, he is making assumptions and generalising whilst looking down on what the Turkish engineers have achieved.
For a small engine like TS1400 or even for T700 turboshaft engines, these blades will perform satisfactorily. But when it comes to larger turbofan jet engines with much higher turbine temperatures newer blades that has special cooling ducts and heat resistant coating will have to be produced.
Had he been following this forum on Turkish engines and power units, he would have known that these issues were discussed in detail.

 

[Yasar_TR]

During the second day of IDEF , TEI signs a MOU with GE on the production of LM2500 and L500 gas turbines in TEI/Turkey.

GE Marine, TEI Sign Memorandum of Understanding to Explore Localization of GE Gas Turbines in Turkey | GE Aerospace News

ISTANBUL, TURKEY -- GE Marine and TUSAS Engine Industries, Inc. (TEI) signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) whereby GE and TEI will explore additional localization efforts relating to the manufacture, assembly and repair of GE’s LM2500 and LM500 gas turbines, the companies announced today...

www.geaviation.com

GE Marine, TEI Sign Memorandum of Understanding to Explore Localization of GE Gas Turbines in Turkey​

August 18, 2021

ISTANBUL, TURKEY -- GE Marine and TUSAS Engine Industries, Inc. (TEI) signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) whereby GE and TEI will explore additional localization efforts relating to the manufacture, assembly and repair of GE’s LM2500 and LM500 gas turbines, the companies announced today at the IDEF ’21 industry exhibition.

“GE Marine and TEI have partnered in Turkey for many years. With this MOU in place, we hope to discover other opportunities for TEI to play a critical role in supporting the Turkish shipbuilding industry in partnership with GE Marine,” said Steve Rogers, EMEA Business Development and Sales Director, GE Marine. “Our philosophy is to provide in-country support from build to delivery to lifetime maintenance of GE’s gas turbines,” Rogers added.

Under the MOU, GE and TEI will continue discussions on localization relating to the manufacture, assembly, test, maintenance, inspection, repair, and overhaul of Turkey’s national and exported fleet of marine GE LM2500 family and LM500 gas turbines. The MOU also seeks ways to incorporate TEI into various design processes for potential naval programs.

“Since 1985, with its partner GE, TEI has been a major player in the defense and aerospace industries by manufacturing high quality aero engine components, rendering preeminent in-service support for military and commercial engines, and producing and servicing its indigenous engines not only for national needs but also global OEMs and end-users,” said Mahmut Faruk Akşit, Ph.D., CEO and President of TEI. “With this signed MOU, TEI will have the opportunity to become an approved and certified OEM service provider to Turkey’s marine engines and exported fleet of LM2500 family and LM500 gas turbines. This collaboration also will enable the localization efforts in design, component manufacturing, assembly and test of such aeroderivative gas turbines and open new doors for utilizing the capability of other local companies and organic depots in the ecosystem,” Akşit added.

LM2500 for Turkish Naval Forces
The LM2500 family — the base LM2500 (25.1 MW), LM2500+ (30.2 MW) and the LM2500+G4 (35.3 MW) — all are two spool engines that offer quick start capabilities, easy on-board maintenance, and an outstanding worldwide fleet performance of greater than 99% reliability and more than 98% availability.

GE has long been a trusted supplier to the Turkish Naval Forces. In fact, all of Turkey’s MILGEM multi-purpose corvettes are powered by a GE LM2500 and two diesel engines in a combined diesel and gas turbine configuration. Additionally, 24 LM2500s operate aboard the Turkish Navy’s Barbaros- and Gabya-class frigates, and two LM2500 engines will power the DIMDEG Fleet Replenishment Ship currently under construction.

GE Marine’s vast in-country experience makes the LM2500 and LM500 gas turbines ideal for the Turkish Naval Forces’ new TF2000 and Fast Attack ship programs, respectively.

Lightweight composite module
In 2020, GE delivered its first new lightweight LM2500 composite gas turbine module to Austal USA for the future USS Santa Barbara (LCS 32). GE also celebrated the completion of the first new module for the Arleigh Burke destroyer USS Ted Stevens (DDG 128).

This new module, which was fully certified by the United States Navy in 2019 after receiving MIL-S-901D shock qualification, offers these benefits:

• One-piece composite carbon fiber construction eliminates corrosion
• Shock, fire, and smoke tested
• 5,500 lb wall weight reduction versus steel
• Improved sound attenuation; 60% (4 dBA)
• Reduced wall temperature (25°F to 50°F cooler)
• Improved entrance with access doors that are 60% lighter, 6” taller than steel design; large 8”x 18” viewing window; new, large external plenum access panel; and larger, lighter rear panel for easier maintenance access.

Worldwide support
With a GE gas turbine, navies have worldwide support whether onshore or at sea, and interoperability benefits with other allied ships. GE has delivered gas turbines onboard 646 naval ships serving 40 navies worldwide and provides 95% of the commissioned propulsion gas turbines in the United States Navy fleet. With GE’s split casing compressor and power turbine design, in-situ maintenance is allowed, often making a gas turbine removal unnecessary; navies save millions of dollars a year and weeks/months of ship unavailability.

 

[Nilgiri]

@Lonewolf ‘s approach to the whole argument is too pedantic and far too critical.
Looking at the specs given for the single crystal blades for a specific end use, he is making assumptions and generalising whilst looking down on what the Turkish engineers have achieved.
For a small engine like TS1400 or even for T700 turboshaft engines, these blades will perform satisfactorily. But when it comes to larger turbofan jet engines with much higher turbine temperatures newer blades that has special cooling ducts and heat resistant coating will have to be produced.
Had he been following this forum on Turkish engines and power units, he would have known that these issues were discussed in detail.

I would suggest members being very critical toward Turkish jet engine development have a read of earlier context in discussion to understand more broadly where Turkey stands in its own ecosystem basis.

F-16 Özgür | Hürkuş - Fighter Trainer Aircraft Projects

fastest fingers in the west Hahahaha :D Our difference :)

defencehub.live

It is fairly unique and has limited application (esp for comparison) to other countries on some selective basis.

Pages 25 - 27 at large gives further context too (for both engine specifically and aersopace sector broadly).

For rest we can simply watch and see how it goes.

There is no real merit to over discussing projection at this juncture what is totally possible and totally impossible (in black and white terms)....as we are not omnipresent in the system governing it to do so. It is far better to give benefit of doubt, compromise to best of ability (if opinion is different and stark) and simply wait and see how it goes.

 

[iceream]

As i said its a General Electric turboshaft engine called t700.it will be manufactured under licence by Tusaş engine industries with a high locality rate for the new t70 skorsky for the turkish armed forces.the max power output is 2000shp.

tusas engine industries also made its first turbine engine called ts1400 with an output of 1400shp recently and.they are also working on a 3000shp turboshaft called ts3000.ts1400 is the biggest achiavement of the turkish engine companies so far.

It will be used for a transport helicopter?

 

[Lonewolf]

What's your profession ?What knowledge and experience do you have to make such assertive statements on these issues? Do you think you are a metallurgy professor with two lines you read on the internet? Forget gas turbine engines, first of all, you need to learn the rules of dialogue necessary for a proper and healthy discussion.

Okay , as you wish .

Tell me what method was used for manufacturing , grain size on surface , cooling technology used in it , i am doing healthy discussion only , it's just too much for some people to realize reality that a simply factual statement get them riled up .

Drink some water and chill down , engine development especially turbofan ,and in that high thrust class with high efficiency are too hard to achieve

 

[Lonewolf]

First of all we MUST appriciate our brave and clever engineers for for this type of achievement. Up to now have you ever heard "single crystal turbine blade" manufacturing other than 6 or 7 countries.
And because of the manufacturing method the lifetime of ours is said that better than Russian ones and hope so.
You are speaking as though so simple and easy to manufacture.Have you ever dare to take this amount risk and get it? Please, all of us should be respectful to priceless labors. We have no rights to underestimate all these achievements...

Appreciation is all fine ,till it is for tyrboshaft of 1500 kw class , above that blades will melt .

Russian item 30 engine is not bad , all earlier ruskie engine were tech from cold war era improved a but with rnd .

And single crystal blade technology for a engine manufacturer is first step , the moulds development will be hard step too ,as the moulds used are generally with melting point 200 °c more than blades ,here turkish blads have melting point of 1450-1500 °c .


The journey is not like missile deveolpment ,that if you development so.e basic tech it will get easier then , here trajectory is not like √x but x^2 , so to reach 1700°c blades ,you need better ceramic coating ,new cooling mechanism , new moulds , better testing facilities , but as the tfx is a 21 meter long hulk ,it need engine of thrust class 150 +kn , and to make those engine efficient and more airborne than hangar queens ,you need turbine blades with temp bearing of 1900-2000°c , and only GE and PnW have tech for that class of engine ,RR have experience too ,but they will be busy on tempest and if sanctioned than amca engine too .

So basically it will be hard walk from now , wishful thinking and all is good ,but don't get upset on small problem in deveolpment , this is long phase

 

[Lonewolf]

@Lonewolf ‘s approach to the whole argument is too pedantic and far too critical.
Looking at the specs given for the single crystal blades for a specific end use, he is making assumptions and generalising whilst looking down on what the Turkish engineers have achieved.
For a small engine like TS1400 or even for T700 turboshaft engines, these blades will perform satisfactorily. But when it comes to larger turbofan jet engines with much higher turbine temperatures newer blades that has special cooling ducts and heat resistant coating will have to be produced.
Had he been following this forum on Turkish engines and power units, he would have known that these issues were discussed in detail.

I ain't looking down ,but stating a mere fact ,that timeline of 5-6 years for the turbofan you are aiming for tfx is a lot unrealistic , and will require tremendous budget

 

[Khagan1923]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428077315943174148

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Okay , as you wish .

Tell me what method was used for manufacturing , grain size on surface , cooling technology used in it , i am doing healthy discussion only , it's just too much for some people to realize reality that a simply factual statement get them riled up .

Drink some water and chill down , engine development especially turbofan ,and in that high thrust class with high efficiency are too hard to achieve

I ain't looking down ,but stating a mere fact ,that timeline of 5-6 years for the turbofan you are aiming for tfx is a lot unrealistic , and will require tremendous budget

Be careful with the words you choose while expressing your issues you want to talk about and the defficiencies you imagine. On this platform, members communicate with respect and good conversation but you are speaking completely imaginary, provocative and with false thoughts without knowing about Turkey's works. Nobody said that they will develop a turbofan in 5-6 years. Turkey has been working on this engine for 2-3 years and many metallurgical projects are running together. There is a partnership with Ukraine on engine design too. The targeted date for mass production is 2030-2031. Connecting all your assumptions to the subject of time, you are not aware of even the simplest issues but when it is time to talk, you make very assertive statements with such generalizations. I don't think you are a well-intentioned member regarding these matters. You don't ask anything to reach the truths, you're just judging without knowing the truths.

 

[iceream]

As i said its a General Electric turboshaft engine called t700.it will be manufactured under licence by Tusaş engine industries with a high locality rate for the new t70 skorsky for the turkish armed forces.the max power output is 2000shp.

tusas engine industries also made its first turbine engine called ts1400 with an output of 1400shp recently and.they are also working on a 3000shp turboshaft called ts3000.ts1400 is the biggest achiavement of the turkish engine companies so far.

It will be used for which helicopter?

 

[Saithan]

It will be used for which helicopter?

Gökbey Utility Helicopter is as I recall it going to be flying with domestic TS engine. I think it was the TS1400.

 

[Lonewolf]

Be careful with the words you choose while expressing your issues you want to talk about and the defficiencies you imagine. On this platform, members communicate with respect and good conversation but you are speaking completely imaginary, provocative and with false thoughts without knowing about Turkey's works. Nobody said that they will develop a turbofan in 5-6 years. Turkey has been working on this engine for 2-3 years and many metallurgical projects are running together. There is a partnership with Ukraine on engine design too. The targeted date for mass production is 2030-2031. Connecting all your assumptions to the subject of time, you are not aware of even the simplest issues but when it is time to talk, you make very assertive statements with such generalizations. I don't think you are a well-intentioned member regarding these matters. You don't ask anything to reach the truths, you're just judging without knowing the truths.

I am basing my argument on statement that production model will be powered by domestic engine . So for that engine needs to complete it's development in 2027 , so that multiple flight test can be done for certification .

 

[Yasar_TR]

Appreciation is all fine ,till it is for tyrboshaft of 1500 kw class , above that blades will melt .

You talk as if no one knows what you are talking about. TEI is currently producing 238 T700 helicopter engines for GE. More than 60% of this engine is being produced locally including the turbine blades. This is is a 2000shp engine and the TEI engines carry GE badges on them. So they know what they are doing.
MD of TEI is an ex GE guy. Educated in MIT and a professor in his field. He personally said that at TEI, they have the capability of producing complete F110GE129 and 132 engines including all the hot parts. (They have previously produced these engines in house albeit with imported turbine blades. But now they are at a level of competence to go it alone) .
GE knows this so can’t afford to let TEI go it alone in engine manufacturing with their 49% stake in TEI.
Before you make unsubstantiated claims about what TEI can do and can’t do, please look in to it in detail.