TR Propulsion Systems

Strong AI

Contributor
Messages
1,038
Reactions
35 4,216
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
IMHO the decline in quality of professional journalism in the defense sector is because of the ignorance of the broad masses who follow these sites.
Their comments under those posts show, that their combined IQ is lower than the IQ of just one engineer working on those projects.
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,343
Reactions
79 10,730
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
To return back to the topic. Claimed 500 turbojet engines per yer figure is a pretty nice. We'll need double that in the next few years for the army and the exports.
 
Last edited:

Trakya_forever

Committed member
Messages
217
Reactions
4 590
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Arat contract was signed in November 2021 and it was a 40-month long contract. Arat engine is ready I think. We will see it very soon. I expect 4.2-4.5 N engine.
 

OPTIMUS

Committed member
Messages
176
Reactions
1 445
Nation of residence
Germany
Nation of origin
Turkey
SavunmaSanayiST was literally involved in election propaganda during the last election. They were retweeting AKP election event announcements. With that amount of followers, they don't need to uphold any journalism standards. Money is sweet.
What do they expect??

Isn't it obvious that a lock has been hung on people's mouths?

Should they say what they expect, should they ask specifically what the production facilities are currently producing, how far they are, reveal everything???

If you don't do that, are they suddenly part of the government?

If you want to know everything; the question arises, whose part are you?

The Anil, who has been accused of becoming a delegate of the future TBMM, has to put up with it!!!! For years he had only one jacket, always the damn same jacket, which was a few sizes too small for him. Now he always has to defend himself because he's wearing a new jacket.!!!!!!

He has prepared for this interview, including KALE himself. But there are limits.

Here, I distinguish between the so-called and would-be experts with a stick on TV and only talk crap. they are also known to everyone.
 

Shtr

Active member
Messages
74
Reactions
4 155
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
He told TF6000 needs a few years. I guess at best conditions 2 years more we will wait. I was very optimistic about timeline but now I am totally sad.
 

Radonsider

Contributor
Messages
1,467
Reactions
14 2,802
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Bosnia & Herzegovina
He told TF6000 needs a few years. I guess at best conditions 2 years more we will wait. I was very optimistic about timeline but now I am totally sad.
Why? He was always clear that these things take time.

His statements are always "these things take time, foreigners do it in 10-15 years, we will do it in less"
 

Shtr

Active member
Messages
74
Reactions
4 155
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Why? He was always clear that these things take time.

His statements are always "these things take time, foreigners do it in 10-15 years, we will do it in less"

He was always consistent about his words but we were optimistic about dates. In previous statements, he was not comparing foreigner's TF engines. This time he stated that foreigners' takes 10-15 years. I felt this as a clear message about longer duration.

I guess he was also more optimistic about dates. I felt after disassembling engine they had a clearer picture and they might need more time. This is my vague observation by the way.

I trust him and his team's skills. God bless them.
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,343
Reactions
79 10,730
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
He told TF6000 needs a few years. I guess at best conditions 2 years more we will wait. I was very optimistic about timeline but now I am totally sad.
Erdogan gave the "5 years later" figure already in 2023. This was disparaged multiple times by forum members but every following quote from officials since then corroborates it.
 

Rooxbar

Contributor
Think Tank Analyst
Messages
739
Reactions
57 2,221
Nation of residence
Nethelands
Nation of origin
Turkey
He was always consistent about his words but we were optimistic about dates. In previous statements, he was not comparing foreigner's TF engines. This time he stated that foreigners' takes 10-15 years. I felt this as a clear message about longer duration.

I guess he was also more optimistic about dates. I felt after disassembling engine they had a clearer picture and they might need more time. This is my vague observation by the way.

I trust him and his team's skills. God bless them.
This isn't the first time he has mentioned those numbers. Interesting thing I caught from the interview is that he said our past performance should be a guide to our future output talking about how comparable engines to TS1400 have taken 8 years to develop while they did it in 6 years.
 

Fairon

Well-known member
Messages
410
Reactions
6 1,022
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Later prototypes (or maybe he means iterations) of KAAN's engine will have thrust vectoring. (at like 04:55 min)


So TS1400 is beyond ready now, this is perfect news. Like previously said, we should give some TS1400 powered T625 o Gendarmerie while waiting civilian testing is completed.

Also preliminary work already been started for TS3000, this is also good. Finally we hear something in this regard.
 

Sanchez

Experienced member
Moderator
Think Tank Analyst
DefenceHub Diplomat
Messages
2,343
Reactions
79 10,730
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
So TS1400 is beyond ready now, this is perfect news. Like previously said, we should give some TS1400 powered T625 o Gendarmerie while waiting civilian testing is completed.
I understand "ready to enter service" from "beyond ready". TS1400 is not entering service yet.

The first 3 T625J Helicopters are powered by the LHTEC CTS800-4AT Turboshaft Engine, while the other 17 T625 Helicopters are planned to be powered by the TEI-TS1400 Turboshaft Engine. However, the qualification schedule for the TEI-TS1400 has not yet been finalized. If qualified, it will be used in 17 helicopters; if not, the LHTEC CTS800-4AT Turboshaft Engines previously supplied by TAI will continue to be used.
 

Fairon

Well-known member
Messages
410
Reactions
6 1,022
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I understand "ready to enter service" from "beyond ready". TS1400 is not entering service yet.

Beyond ready is my interpretation to be honest. They abused the engine so bad(to a point that it might considered a crime) and engine still kept running. It is only waiting for civillian qualificaiton and I think(and some people said that here before) it hasn't got that yet only because the civillian schedule. TEI is satisfied with the engine, TUSAS is satisfied with the engine, the pilots are satisfied with the engine.(As per Mr. Aksit's words)

It is not entering service yet that is true but if needed it is ready to enter service as you said. That is the reason I think we should not wait civillian qualification for the next batch of T625.(or at least power some of them with TS1400 )
 

zio

Well-known member
Messages
392
Reactions
7 539
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Hürkuş is produced than they said its heavy lets make a lighter one,ok its first aircraft we made in Türkiye,than we produced Gökbey than they said its heavy lets make a lighter one,that is enough and no one says ”why” you are making wrong second time.
 

zio

Well-known member
Messages
392
Reactions
7 539
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
SSB think BMC power batu motor can be used on milgem based ships as a secondary machine-generator.Ada class corvettes uses 4x 700kw mtu diesel motors.BMC power batu is capable of 1100kw.Although BMC power utku diesel motor is capable of 830 kw thats more powerful from milgem/mtu secondary motor and also ready earlier than batu it is not chosen.We do not know how many batu/generator will be used on one milgem ship,previously ada class uses 2 generators on peace time 3 generatır uses on wartime,4th generators used on passage of turkish streets.Mean time cost guard command thinks on right direction to use 4x tubitak rute özgün motor on their 600 class project as a main machine however to use 4 main motor is cumbersome but more secure interms of failure of one or two motor.
 
Last edited:

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,502
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,888
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
SSB think BMC power batu motor can be used on milgem based ships as a secondary machine-generator.Ada class corvettes uses 4x 700kw mtu diesel motors.BMC power batu is capable of 1100kw.Although BMC power utku diesel motor is capable of 830 kw thats more powerful from milgem/mtu secondary motor and also ready earlier than batu it is not chosen.We do not know how many batu/generator will be used on one milgem ship,previously ada class uses 2 generators on peace time 3 generatır uses on wartime,4th generators used on passage of turkish streets.Mean time cost guard command thinks on right direction to use 4x tubitak rute özgün motor on their 600 class project as a main machine however to use 4 main motor is cumbersome but more secure interms of failure of one or two motor.
Secondary machine? Where did you get the term? It is not even referred to, by direct transtlation, in Turkish that way.

You need a little read into marine generators, i highly suggest you to do some reading and learn MCR. You can't simply slap an engine into a generator coupling and expect it to run at the maximum capacity. The commercial engines often run in a window capped by 85%, in continous regime. Hence the maximum continuous rate - MCR. This is not the case for military grade engines, they might run even at lower rates.

Check some catalogue, both MTU and MAN provides kVA output and kW of the used engine and the MCR. Also mind the difference between kVA and kW.

I don't think MTU slaps a Tank engine into being a marine generator, they have a line of generator (also MAN does the same) fine tuned for the duty.
 

zio

Well-known member
Messages
392
Reactions
7 539
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
Secondary machine? Where did you get the term? It is not even referred to, by direct transtlation, in Turkish that way.

You need a little read into marine generators, i highly suggest you to do some reading and learn MCR. You can't simply slap an engine into a generator coupling and expect it to run at the maximum capacity. The commercial engines often run in a window capped by 85%, in continous regime. Hence the maximum continuous rate - MCR. This is not the case for military grade engines, they might run even at lower rates.

Check some catalogue, both MTU and MAN provides kVA output and kW of the used engine and the MCR. Also mind the difference between kVA and kW.

I don't think MTU slaps a Tank engine into being a marine generator, they have a line of generator (also MAN does the same) fine tuned for the duty.
I am sure you know better than SSB experts on marine propulsion systems.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1459.jpeg
    IMG_1459.jpeg
    819.2 KB · Views: 51
  • IMG_1460.png
    IMG_1460.png
    1.2 MB · Views: 48

Anmdt

Experienced member
Naval Specialist
Professional
Messages
5,502
Solutions
2
Reactions
118 24,888
Nation of residence
Turkey
Nation of origin
Turkey
I am sure you know better than SSB experts on marine propulsion systems.
"Potential"
any engine that matches in power output and rpm has a potential. I haven't denied possibility of BATU being used as a marine generator.

Yes i am a naval architect and been so for more than a decade, and most of people in SSB are project managers, they don't do engineering if this is your point. I am in contact with them more frequently than you may imagine, there more than few non naval-architect engineers in Naval systems division of SSB.

First of all your 700 kW was wrong, Milgem has 750 kVA generators. You don't list kW, but kVA or kWe while speaking of a marine generator.

Your following statement was also off point, since the diesels on Milgem generators run at lower MCR (if you have read my post you would have found out)

Although BMC power utku diesel motor is capable of 830 kw thats more powerful from milgem/mtu secondary motor and also ready earlier than batu it is not chosen

My point is UTKU can not be used to generate 750 kVA at the desired continous rate. Also it is not more powerful than MTU or MAN generators, it is less. Read my post, and do some reading on marine engines, generators.

Turning an engine into a marine generator simply requires more modifications and adjustments than turning an engine into a marine engine. A generator runs even after the engines stop and at varying loads, non-stop.

Existence of an engine does not automatically make it marine generator. BMC is still yet to test their first marine engines on the USVs (Levend), integration is still going on and tests will commence. You need years of experience to build up to make a generator since a failed generator is not something you can't make up at the open seas.

Tübitak's latest DE is more promising but not sure if people influenced by BMC will allow it through. Tübitak RUTE is far ahead in terms of understanding marine engines.

As for you other attached image;
The listed values are for 100% MCR, a high density engine runs at 50 to 60% MCR. Consider the conversion losses and power factor while converting from DE's power output to kVA. We don't simply adapt an engine just because it fits to required power with its 90-95% MCR, the engine is run at lower MCR purposefully, run at lower MCR, less load, less wear, higher MTBF and relaxed maintenance schedule and also; a spare of 60% at your will to boost up engine when you need, in case of emergency. Yes marine engines on naval platforms can run up to 110, 120% MCR for a limited time (sometimes a day). This is a compact engine is not preferred simply for being compact, in comparison to a medium density engine, more or less it occupies the same space, but it provides a better maintenance schedule and spare power.

Yes we should eventually adapt BATU or RUTE engines for marine generators and i am not against the idea, or in fact i support more than you do; at least to begin with this is a nice roadmap to follow, but it can't be rushed. I don't recall if follow up Istanbul Class orders or ADKG orders are planned to be equipped with these engines, either.

It will start with USVs and non critical platforms in service at the navy ports (pusher port tugboats) and from there they can move on to generators.
 

Attachments

  • 1730197780032.png
    1730197780032.png
    72.8 KB · Views: 27

Saithan

Experienced member
Denmark Correspondent
Messages
8,632
Reactions
37 19,741
Nation of residence
Denmark
Nation of origin
Turkey
I am sure you know better than SSB experts on marine propulsion systems.
Yes he does, good you noticed. Most of those opening their mouth and speaking to the public in SSB are most likely not experts, but politicians who wants to look good.

Lol @Anmdt you beat me to the reply :)
 

Follow us on social media

Top Bottom