Defence Q&A S-400 or F-35 for Turkey ? |Debate and Discussion

[what]

Another embarassing and probably futile step by Hulusi Akar in Hürriyet. He proposed a Cyprus-Crete S300 kind of scenario to solve the S400 issue. The government fucked up so bad, they are now offering putting the 2bln € system somewhere else, in another place to get rid of the sanctions and access to F35.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1359050404454137856

 

[Lool]

this is really sad knowing that s-400 radar max range 600km , so if it was deployed in izmer for example it will cover the entire country of greek making it's future f-35 unflyable only if the american sanction it due to the scare of being detected by s-400 radar .

but honestly , is it only the s-400 that turkey have no power to deploy it near the western border or more than that ? I mean something like the current 300+km bora missile or the future bora 2 missile that have more range to it , is it also in the ( turkey can't do ) list ?

and if in the future Siper system and the EIRS radar system was finished , would turkey deploy or the same s-400 loophole ?

Certainly, Turkey doesnt have the political power to do so
However, in terms of war, the s400 will be used no doubt
In fact, it can be used as a deterrent against the USA since they might be worried tht the Russians may help the Turks in exchange for the data regarcing the American jets

However, in times of peace, Turkey wont antagonise the USA; but, in times of war shit is different and one of the reasons Turkey bought the S400 is due to its radar range that can cover all of Greece

 

[Lonewolf]

this is really sad knowing that s-400 radar max range 600km , so if it was deployed in izmer for example it will cover the entire country of greek making it's future f-35 unflyable only if the american sanction it due to the scare of being detected by s-400 radar .

but honestly , is it only the s-400 that turkey have no power to deploy it near the western border or more than that ? I mean something like the current 300+km bora missile or the future bora 2 missile that have more range to it , is it also in the ( turkey can't do ) list ?

and if in the future Siper system and the EIRS radar system was finished , would turkey deploy or the same s-400 loophole ?

S 400 don't have 600 km range for f 35 .
Radar have range with respect to rcs .

 

[Yasar_TR]

S 400 isn't junk , maybe it being standalone with turkish fleet makes it liability more than asset ,but not junk per se .

“Junk” in dictionary means:
“anything that is regarded as worthless, meaningless”
At peace times this sort of defensive weapons are used as deterrents. Since the Administration doesn’t have the balls to move it out of it’s hangars and activate it as they should be, it is useless. So in my eyes that is “junk”. Money wasted. “worthless” and “meaningless”.
Come 2025, almost all portions of Hisar A,O and U plus Siper will be active combined with short range AD systems like Korkut and Sungur in widespread use in a layered defensive set up , Turkish air defence will not need 2 batteries of stand alone S400 missiles. We saw in Karabagh what happens to stand alone S300 systems. They turn in to “Junk”.
Russians have them connected to their air defence network, supplemented with their AWACS and ground radar systems. In that formation they will be formidable. (Also Russian S400 and export S400 are not the same).
So S400 for Russians is definitely not Junk. But for Turkey those 2 batteries, are, I am afraid.

 

[what]

I think the S400 will remain in warehouses until a political solution can be reached or the administration in the US softens towards Turkey. Unless of course there is an incoming war.

 

[Huelague]

sorry to ask this provoking question but I really would love to see what the Turks think .

do you think turkey have the political power to use the s-400 that they own on any time they want and deploy it on any location within the turkish border ?

Yes.

 

[Huelague]

We don't have much alternative. We don't pay billions just for show or letting the "car in garage". It would let show us weak.

 

[Huelague]

Another point is, it is a message to US, which arm Kurdish terrorist to the teeth right now.

 

[Manomed]

TCG anadolu will be useless without the F-35B Im seeing lots of akp supporters talking shit about F-35B NOO TCG IS NOT A AIRCRAFT CARRIER hüü kind of stuff "Kedi ulaşamadığı ete mındar dermiş"

 

[Huelague]

Why not working on VTOL? At least a 50 years old technology.

 

[Lool]

TCG anadolu will be useless without the F-35B Im seeing lots of akp supporters talking shit about F-35B NOO TCG IS NOT A AIRCRAFT CARRIER hüü kind of stuff "Kedi ulaşamadığı ete mındar dermiş"

F35 program is bad...period!
Pls just look at the costs of the engine, repair, flight time and the frequent malfunctions; i-e, this thing is a money sucker! Above all, the US still controls the F35 even when they sell it to us. In other words, if we used it to attack GREECE or PKK, the US can just turn the plane off and it will be no more than 100 million dollars piece of metal on the runway.

Moreover, TCG Anadolu, is an amphibious ship that transports tanks, troops etc to war zones; yes, the F35 will give it more capabilities but its not its main armament



I dont understand why you F35 fanboys are just obsessing over it. The plane doesnt even do its primary job which is a CHEAP 5th gen aircraft to replace the F16

 

[LegionnairE]

@Lool
You are simply wrong. F-35 deal was perfect for Turkey, we had an over %100 offset deal. In other words we were going to make more money out of selling F35 parts than we would pay for 100 planes. We were going to make a lot of money. Now we lost that.

F35-B is a different topic, I was always against it. Doesn't fit TCG Anadolu's mission profile.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

@Lool
I'll just let the data talk.
View attachment 29678

And what did German economy do in the last 20 years?

View attachment 29679

From 2 trillion to nearly 4 trillion dollars.

Like i mentioned previously. The muslim countries dont have the same luxury as the west. We are constant under bad influence and pressure, that leads to slow development. Turkey however is doing well compared to other muslim nations. Hopefully they will grow even more. Germany and the west all do their trade within EU, and other channels. I remember i read that turkey wanted to boost trade with the US to 100 billion yearly but didnt happen. If the turks had other muslim countries that was wealthy and strong then it would be more easier. I know saudi UAE etc have good economies but are turkey just gonna buy oil from half arab world? Turkey is the most advanced muslim country right now. Hopefully turkey can expand its influence through the muslim world.

 

[LegionnairE]

Like i mentioned previously. The muslim countries dont have the same luxury as the west. We are constant under bad influence and pressure, that leads to slow development. Turkey however is doing well compared to other muslim nations. Hopefully they will grow even more. Germany and the west all do their trade within EU, and other channels. I remember i read that turkey wanted to boost trade with the US to 100 billion yearly but didnt happen. If the turks had other muslim countries that was wealthy and strong then it would be more easier. I know saudi UAE etc have good economies but are turkey just gonna buy oil from half arab world? Turkey is the most advanced muslim country right now. Hopefully turkey can expand its influence through the muslim world.

Frankly, Turkey was the most advanced muslim country the day it was founded. It's nothing new. To be "the best of the muslim world" is not enough.

 

[Knowledgeseeker]

Frankly, Turkey was the most advanced muslim country the day it was founded. It's nothing new. To be "the best of the muslim world" is not enough.

Turkey has alot more to offer, i agree. But still dont have the same luxury, where they can trade in big numbers with the western world.

 

[Glass🚬]

Another point is, it is a message to US, which arm Kurdish terrorist to the teeth right now.

Thats the primary issue and its also underlined by Akar when the issue flares up, I think the americans are trying to cage this into a F-35 vs S-400 issue and trying to avoid the root for this problem when the problem is much deeper.

 

[Lonewolf]

Why not working on VTOL? At least a 50 years old technology.

50 year old for america , and ruskies but not turkey ,for turkey it's atleast 15 year in future .

You don't have a engine to implement vtol

 

[Anastasius]

50 year old for america , and ruskies but not turkey ,for turkey it's atleast 15 year in future .

You don't have a engine to implement vtol

Clearly someone hasn't been paying attention.

 

[Lonewolf]

Clearly someone hasn't been paying attention.

Vtol require high enough thrust due to loss in vectoring plus the tvc isn't a easy feat ,not all engine have it .

My discussion is related to f 35 like jet ,if you wanna say heli , then they are available with turkey .

And with new engine ,turkey is making addition of tvc will take extra time , plus are you willing to make the fan arrangements too as that will eat a lot of space .

 

[Manomed]

F35 program is bad...period!
Pls just look at the costs of the engine, repair, flight time and the frequent malfunctions; i-e, this thing is a money sucker! Above all, the US still controls the F35 even when they sell it to us. In other words, if we used it to attack GREECE or PKK, the US can just turn the plane off and it will be no more than 100 million dollars piece of metal on the runway.

Moreover, TCG Anadolu, is an amphibious ship that transports tanks, troops etc to war zones; yes, the F35 will give it more capabilities but its not its main armament



I dont understand why you F35 fanboys are just obsessing over it. The plane doesnt even do its primary job which is a CHEAP 5th gen aircraft to replace the F16

"kedi ulaşamadığı ete mındar dermiş" You made my argument right lol

 

[Zafer]

Vtol require high enough thrust due to loss in vectoring plus the tvc isn't a easy feat ,not all engine have it .

My discussion is related to f 35 like jet ,if you wanna say heli , then they are available with turkey .

And with new engine ,turkey is making addition of tvc will take extra time , plus are you willing to make the fan arrangements too as that will eat a lot of space .

We don't need F35B. we will operate our UCAVs from our runway ships instead.