TR Sensors and Detector Programs

[TheInsider]

Any unofficial info/rumor regarding MURAD's performance perimeter? Range?

This is a difficult question to answer. Given ranges are always rough figures there are so many parameters that affect radar range like;

Radar frequency: Lower the frequency longer the range and X-band covers 8-12GHz and the difference between 8 and 12 is big.
Pulse repetition frequency: Higher is better again makes a big difference
Peak power: At least we know the peak power of Murad (30w per module x1152 module)
Pulse width: Longer pulse width provides better range at the expense of resolution (you lose the ability to detect objects flying in tight formation separately and detect them as a single object)
Target and fighter altitude
Radar scan sector: It means how big is the area/volume you are scanning. Smaller volume=better range
Scan Time: How long the radar will scan per beam
Weather conditions

 

[Afif]

This is a difficult question to answer. Given ranges are always rough figures there are so many parameters that affect radar range like;

Radar frequency: Lower the frequency longer the range and X-band covers 8-12GHz and the difference between 8 and 12 is big.
Pulse repetition frequency: Higher is better again makes a big difference
Peak power: At least we know the peak power of Murad (30w per module x1152 module)
Pulse width: Longer pulse width provides better range at the expense of resolution (you lose the ability to detect objects flying in tight formation separately and detect them as a single object)
Target and fighter altitude
Radar scan sector: It means how big is the area/volume you are scanning. Smaller volume=better range
Scan Time: How long the radar will scan per beam
Weather conditions

Yes I know all of these. But still, they usually give a number. Let's say, 150km detection range against 1m² RCS target or something like that.

 

[blackjack]

200 km menzile sahip: Önce HÜRJET'te sonra KAAN'da kullanılacak!

Haber 7 - TUSAŞ'ın geliştirdiği HÜRJET uçağı, ASELSAN tarafından üretilen 200 km menzili olan MURAD AESA radarı ile donatılacak. Radar HÜRJET'ten sonra MMU KAAN'da kullanılacak.

www.haber7.com

It has a range of 200 km: It will be used first in HÜRJET and then in KAAN!​

The HÜRJET aircraft developed by TAI will be equipped with the MURAD AESA radar with a range of 200 km produced by ASELSAN. The radar will be used in MMU KAAN after HÜRJET.​

ENTRANCE 02.09.2023 15:30UPDATE 02.09.2023 16:23


The HÜRJET aircraft, developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries TAI, will have the MURAD AESA radar developed by ASELSAN.
The radar, which is still under development, is developed by ASELSAN and will be used in both the F-16 (ÖZGÜR Project) and AKINCI UCAV. The next user of the radar will be KAAN MMU.
The radar, which has a total range of 200 kilometers, will be an important step for the Turkish Defense Industry in this respect.

"A HUGE RADAR WILL COME TO HÜRJET"
In his previous interviews, TAI General Manager Temel Kotil said, "A huge radar will come to HÜRJET. As for it, it will be a small F-16 in terms of capability. We will install the ASELSAN radar that sees 200 km on HÜRJET. Its nose is made accordingly, so it will be the same as the F-16 radar. We will place our missiles on it."

200kms? what do Turks like to use as a reference point for aerial targets on previous radar brochures? 1m2, 3m2, 5m2?

 

[Strong AI]

{ElectronicWarfare}
ASELSAN PULAT Active Protection System provides 360-degree full protection, detecting threats approaching the platform and disabling them at an optimum range using the Hard-Kill method.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1763095976481313133

 

[Merzifonlu]

200kms? what do Turks like to use as a reference point for aerial targets on previous radar brochures? 1m2, 3m2, 5m2?

Do not take the media in Turkey and especially the pro-government media seriously. Pay attention to official statements.

 

[Hepdert]

Aselsan MURAD AESA

https://x.com/MiddleastN/status/1763143371265028287?s=20

 

[Afif]

200 km menzile sahip: Önce HÜRJET'te sonra KAAN'da kullanılacak!

Haber 7 - TUSAŞ'ın geliştirdiği HÜRJET uçağı, ASELSAN tarafından üretilen 200 km menzili olan MURAD AESA radarı ile donatılacak. Radar HÜRJET'ten sonra MMU KAAN'da kullanılacak.

www.haber7.com

It has a range of 200 km: It will be used first in HÜRJET and then in KAAN!​

The HÜRJET aircraft developed by TAI will be equipped with the MURAD AESA radar with a range of 200 km produced by ASELSAN. The radar will be used in MMU KAAN after HÜRJET.​

ENTRANCE 02.09.2023 15:30UPDATE 02.09.2023 16:23


The HÜRJET aircraft, developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries TAI, will have the MURAD AESA radar developed by ASELSAN.
The radar, which is still under development, is developed by ASELSAN and will be used in both the F-16 (ÖZGÜR Project) and AKINCI UCAV. The next user of the radar will be KAAN MMU.
The radar, which has a total range of 200 kilometers, will be an important step for the Turkish Defense Industry in this respect.

"A HUGE RADAR WILL COME TO HÜRJET"
In his previous interviews, TAI General Manager Temel Kotil said, "A huge radar will come to HÜRJET. As for it, it will be a small F-16 in terms of capability. We will install the ASELSAN radar that sees 200 km on HÜRJET. Its nose is made accordingly, so it will be the same as the F-16 radar. We will place our missiles on it."

200kms? what do Turks like to use as a reference point for aerial targets on previous radar brochures? 1m2, 3m2, 5m2?

Western companies usually uses 1m² RCS target as their range reference. But it could be 3m² or even 5m² as a fighter size target. (We can only speculate from his statement)
@TheInsider

 

[TheInsider]

Western companies usually uses 1m² RCS target as their range reference. But it could be 3m² or even 5m² as a fighter size target. (We can only speculate from his statement)
@TheInsider

Yes, the reference target always has a 1m² RCS for Turkish products.

I expect Murad to have a detection range of 150km+ range for 1m² target
Burfis should have 250km+ range for the same target.
For reference, APG-83 has 90km+ detection range for a 1m² target.

 

[Afif]

For reference, APG-83 has 90km+ detection range for a 1m² target.

Yes, but later i discover APG-83 uses the same T/R modules as APG-81 and basically uses 95% of its technologies. Unless there are some serious limitations, it is a bit hard to believe its actual range is that short.

Anyway, with MURAD this powerful couldn't Hurjet become a cost effective solution as an state of art interceptor? (Let's say with gokhan, ramjet propulsion will compensate for Hurjet's lack of kinematic performance)

 

[uçuyorum]

Yes, but later i discover APG-83 uses the same T/R modules as APG-81 and basically uses 95% of its technologies. Unless there are some serious limitations, it is a bit hard to believe its actual range is that short.

Power supply and cooling

 

[Baryshx]

i have my doubts Murad will be that much stronger than northrop's work.

I also don't think a single f414 could supply murad with enough power...ESAs are very power hungry and their range scales with it relatively linearly up to a point.

we just don't know enough about the aesa project

Hürjet F404

 

[uçuyorum]

Hürjet F404

Yeah if it was F414* it would actually have more electricity generation power than F110

* One time I saw a figure of 70kva for F414 but can't find it again so might be inaccurate

 

[zio]

GaS aesa hungry but not GaN aesa.

 

[Afif]

GaS aesa hungry but not GaN aesa.

Nope. It is more efficient and tolerate higher power input without increasing the cooling requirements. Or the same power input with less cooling requirement.

 

[Anmdt]

Nope. It is more efficient and tolerate higher power input without increasing the cooling requirements. Or the same power input with less cooling requirement.

Less power losses in the transistors = more power put out in the transmission or for the same range, less power is required.

 

[uçuyorum]

I found multiple sources citing F414 at 65kva or F18 at 140 total so I guess I was remembering correctly, which btw should also tell you how powerful growler is for EW. In comparison F16 has total 60kva, F16 A/B have 40kva and I think there are some of those actually upgraded to viper configuration ( Taiwan?). However, apparently the active cooling capacity for electronics is much lower for all of these systems.
Cooling aside Gripen NG has more power than F16, and F404 generates 40kva so it could even use SABR radar likr F16 A/B Block 70, but with limits.

 

[Afif]

Less power losses in the transistors = more power put out in the transmission or for the same range, less power is required.

Also, GaN in general has higher bandwidth. Which means better ECCM and SAR resolution if I understood correctly.

 

[Huelague]

{ElectronicWarfare}
ASELSAN PULAT Active Protection System provides 360-degree full protection, detecting threats approaching the platform and disabling them at an optimum range using the Hard-Kill method.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1763095976481313133

PULAT can engage threats, coming from above (90 degree)?

 

[Radonsider]

Electric is generated by the generator, not engine, you can swap generators. Hürjet has Honeywell produced generator and alternators while Kaan has 2x120kVA generators produced by Volt Teknoloji

 

[TheInsider]

Doubters gonna doubt, and haters gonna hate. Murad is better than APG-83 in every parameter with the possible exception of software.