TR Space Space Programs

[Huelague]

I bet we have had assistance from Pakistan, or maybe from China.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Can't Turkey license-produce something like SpaceX's Merlin liquid fuel engine? Especially given the fact that we've selected them to launch Turksat 5A and 5B?

View attachment 1328

Producing under license means giving production technology and technique, even partially, which is prohibited.

 

[Yoyo]

Producing under license means giving production technology and technique, even partially, which is prohibited.

I think that's only for strictly military rockets and excludes civilian satellite launchers. For example, US company ULA (United Launch Alliance) uses Russian RD-180 engines.

 

[triangle]

I'm really interested in what type of liquid rocket engine Turkey is going to use. An off the shelf one or an indigenous design.

 

[Zafer]

Can't Turkey license-produce something like SpaceX's Merlin liquid fuel engine? Especially given the fact that we've selected them to launch Turksat 5A and 5B?

View attachment 1328

If they do license their technology they probably already have. If they didn't then they won't. I would guess that some other company would use this engine if they could. Also SpaceX and most launch companies service internationally therefore they probably won't want other companies to compete with their advantageous tech. Highly likely that it is a no go. Also a weaponizable tech is unlikely to be transferred.

 

[Yoyo]

If they do license their technology they probably already have. If they didn't then they won't. I would guess that some other company would use this engine if they could. Also SpaceX and most launch companies service internationally therefore they probably won't want other companies to compete with their advantageous tech. Highly likely that it is a no go. Also a weaponizable tech is unlikely to be transferred.

SpaceX now makes engines a lot more advanced than their old Merlin 1A engine, which they no longer use. It is based on an older design from 2006 which used an open cycle gas generator to power its turbopump. It's considered "obsolete" by today's standards. So I see no reason as to why they wouldn't want to sell Turkey that design. Once acquired, we can make improvements on it and increase its thrust capacity. The most critically important part is the turbopump anyway, which has to pump cryogenic liquid oxygen and RP-1 at high speed. Once we acquire and perfect that technology, we're golden.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

1,35m solid propellant carbon filament based motor case + TVC nozzle represents one of the previously announced target of Turkish industry. This technology will help us to produce 2500+km range two stage ballistic missiles If It is requested by TAF but Noone will see them. The previous target was 1500km and Turkey has already developed the infrastructure and surpassed this target ~2017. Before 1500km range, Turkey has ballistic missile tech that is able to reach 800/1000km. This year, Turkey will start space trials of domestic liquid propellant rocket engines as well and MuFA V1/2 will use domestic liquid propellant engine in last stage of rocket. All these achievements are continuation of previous efforts.

 

[Yoyo]

1,35m solid propellant carbon filament based motor case + TVC nozzle represents one of the previously announced target of Turkish industry. This technology will help us to produce 2500+km range two stage ballistic missiles If It is requested by TAF but Noone will see them. The previous target was 1500km and Turkey has already developed the infrastructure and surpassed this target ~2017. Before 1500km range, Turkey has ballistic missile tech that is able to reach 800/1000km. This year, Turkey will start space trials of domestic liquid propellant rocket engines as well and MuFA V1/2 will use domestic liquid propellant engine called “Ümit” in last stage. All these achievements are continuation of previous efforts.

That's very exciting. Also, Delta-V was developing a hybrid rocket engine. And news as to whether it'll be used for upcoming satellite launchers?

 

[Cabatli_TR]

That's very exciting. Also, Delta-V was developing a hybrid rocket engine. And news as to whether it'll be used for upcoming satellite launchers?

View attachment 1339

Roketsan MUFA (2024/25) and UFA (2029/30) SLV tech will use different propellant stages (first and second stages are solid and third stages will be liquid) and ı personally expect Turkish hybrid rocket motors will be used on next generation SLV platforms (Lighter weight but bigger payload options)

 

[GNCTRK]

Yes.

Yes.

a retired airforce general mentioned live on tv that we have missiles with range up to 2000 km and 500 kg warhead. i think he slipped his mouth. If its sensitive mods can delete this.
@Cabatli_53

 

[Zafer]

I'm curious whether the performance of a rocket can be tested/verified by calculation alone without actually test firing one. I had read that airplane makers can predict their new planes' performance down to 1% variation level. What do you guys think?

 

[Balamir]

1,35m solid propellant carbon filament based motor case + TVC nozzle represents one of the previously announced target of Turkish industry. This technology will help us to produce 2500+km range two stage ballistic missiles If It is requested by TAF but Noone will see them. The previous target was 1500km and Turkey has already developed the infrastructure and surpassed this target ~2017. Before 1500km range, Turkey has ballistic missile tech that is able to reach 800/1000km. This year, Turkey will start space trials of domestic liquid propellant rocket engines as well and MuFA V1/2 will use domestic liquid propellant engine called “Ümit” in last stage. All these achievements are continuation of previous efforts.

ÜMİT satellite propulsion project.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

ÜMİT satellite propulsion project.

Thanks for reminding! It was corrected.

 

[Test7]

The head of the Turkish space agency visited Yuzhnoye State Design Office, the Ukrainian satellite and rocket designer.

https://www.facebook.com/yuzhnoye/posts/3319359308148815

 

[Yoyo]

I'm curious whether the performance of a rocket can be tested/verified by calculation alone without actually test firing one. I had read that airplane makers can predict their new planes' performance down to 1% variation level. What do you guys think?

Yes, in theory. But calculation only gets you to a certain point beyond which you have to prove your concept with actual testing.

Rocket engines have varying thrusts and different rocket fuels have different "specific impulses". When you're designing your rocket, you take into account a lot of variables such as type of orbit required and velocity needed to achieve that orbit. And then you try to figure out how many engines you need and how many seconds you need to burn those engines to achieve that target velocity. For example, if you're trying to send a space probe to the Moon, you need to exceed the Earth's escape velocity, which is 11.19 km/second. But if all you need is to place a satellite in Low Earth Orbit, all you have to achieve is a velocity of 7.8 km/second.

 

[Zafer]

Seems like if you have prior data from a similar project you can extrapolate and interpolate to incorporate with new input and get to a respectably accurate result of calculation. If you can use somebody else's data you can probably get away with minimal experimentation.

 

[Yoyo]

Seems like if you have prior data from a similar project you can extrapolate and interpolate to incorporate with new input and get to a respectably accurate result of calculation. If you can use somebody else's data you can probably get away with minimal experimentation.

Sometimes calculation+simulation is all you've got because of the immense cost of manufacturing the real thing. You build the thing with the best estimates and hope everything works fine. It costs around $18000/kg to launch something to space, which jumps to $54000/kg for human flight due to life support requirements. Also, just because you're testing something doesn't mean you're risk free. For example 3 astronauts died of a fire while locked in a test capsule for the Apollo 1 program, on the ground at NASA facilities.

 

[Combat-Master]

View attachment 1323

@miguyan2000 @Combat-Master

I know im not the only one thinking about turning this beastly into an MRBM, im sure they could squeeze out 2,500km out of it if they wanted...

 

[BordoEnes]

Well, i'm not going to hide my disappointment.

I remember this project has been going on for 5 years and it will take another 5 years. At the end of 10 years, project will give us the capability of nothing. Turksat satellites are at GEO, LEO satellites weigh much more than 100 kg (Göktürk-1 1000kg, Göktürk-2 400kg). So what's the objective of this project ?

More over, if we are starting on clean sheet, i would prefer our rockets to have re-usability. This rocket can never compete against Falcon series of SpaceX. Yes, it is a strategical importance to have national SLV but if like i said only 100 kg.

Hope, i'm somehow wrong....

Thats a fair criticism in my opinion. This is one of those things that i myself have a big problem with and have stated so openly, especially among the Iranian subforums considering they did something similar. This is slowly starting to turn into a token space program that doesnt actually achieve much in the sector of military. Unless you design and build something that has mid-long term effectiveness and usefullness why bother creating this.

I geniunly hope this is merely a stepping stone and that there are more ambitious plans to create something upon this succes. If thats the case it wouldnt be so bad but untill then this is basically throwing money on basic PR.

 

[Hexciter]

It may be appropriate to launch the satellite from which region of Turkey:
1- From the shadow of the Black Sea in the Thrace Region
2- From mugla to mediterranean (for example towards libya)
3- sinop (more suitable for probe rockets)
4- From the launch center of a foreign country (e.g. Baikonur Alcântara)
5- From mobile sea launch pad

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306503679286153216