TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Nilgiri]

Sheesh. So many talkers not enough listeners.

Stealth is not just about radar stealth mate. The more you HIDE your exhaust and nozzles (hottest parts incase people cant figure that out too) better your INFRARED spectrum stealth. It is embarrasing as a Turk to have to spell it out this to so many people on a Turkish forum like this. Not a single person could figure out what I was talking about?

I clearly said heat signature yet they are still talking about radar stealth. And yes knowledgable westerners from other sites are NOW also saying same things including head of the plane being too large thus nonaerodynamic and slower than F22 despite having almost the same thrust. That is not a small MISTAKE either. Can anyone guess for which reasons?

Like I get where you are coming from (though you did mention RCS earlier):

Some IR signature angles would indeed be suppressed to some extent (w.r.t nozzle surface and maybe some portion of the plume) by having the vertical stabiliser fully adjacent (red) and a bit more aft, rather than situated on the nozzle curvature where it is.

I really don't know where this stacks up in the trade-off analysis overall though given large circular nozzles have been elected for to begin with (i.e a conventional approach to focus on the front hemisphere RCS far more and optimize/economize overall investment in design and production).

i.e would say a small X% improvement here be worth it for other reasons the vertical stabiliser is where it is (I would venture mostly to create the space in the middle for a potential future sensor or other payload placement....while not altering the yaw-roll coefficient set by other geometries/weights too much and having to de-optimise those in a feedback loop and maybe other such issues too)

The F-22 is really the only stealth fighter that invests heavily in the rear signature suppression (of both IR and RCS) profile to the degree it does....and it was clearly a ground up decision from the get go (cost was really no bar there).

Make from that what you will.

Maybe other members know more about IR signatures (or other reasons) or can look it up to post here.

As for the front profile of the aircraft looking a bit big, people have already mentioned the CFD analysis that would have been done for that....as to trade off there w.r.t say the jet intake shoulder is done and so on (slightly different to say F-22 which goes for more width there). I really couldn't comment on it without looking at those details.

Anyway I'll join the conversation again a bit later.

 

[Mehmed Ali]

Stop that f*****cking troll

This guy and the guy with forum name which resembles a phone number are Iranian trolls, seen it before. I know this psychological profile and the style of writing. You got to understand, the last 2 days Mullahs are eating the blankets out of jealousy. Nothing more then that .
Hey Mr G Hotline number, you don't say " There is too much talkers, not enough listners " you say " There's too much chritics not enough achievers" .
Personally I like " Money talks and bullshit walks"
The trolls

 

[Ryder]

I noticed that people on other sites have started talking about the vertical stabiliser's position and its likelihood to compromise stealth; maybe 37058444 may have been onto something after all; no other stealth jet has the vertical stabiliser directly over the engine. Saab, who helped to design the TF-X, has released new concept art of a stealth fighter with the vertical stabiliser on the side instead of on the engine.

If so give your proof that saab helped.

Because bae systems announced their partnership or cooperation on twitter.

I havent seen anything from saab neither have they announced anything.

If this was saab designed this plane would be looking more like a gripen or a bloody fcking viggen.

 

[UkroTurk]

Apart from technology, the aircraft looks gorgeous
I adore F-22's duck cockpit glass.

Türkiye is in different league from now.it is a fucking stealth fighter and locally made.

My congratulations to Turkish aero industry.

 

[zio]

I dream a dual x and s band nose radar,and L band wing based radars

 

[CAN_TR]

Sheesh. So many talkers not enough listeners.

Stealth is not just about radar stealth mate. The more you HIDE your exhaust and nozzles (hottest parts incase people cant figure that out too) better your INFRARED spectrum stealth. It is embarrasing as a Turk to have to spell it out this to so many people on a Turkish forum like this. Not a single person could figure out what I was talking about?

I clearly said heat signature yet they are still talking about radar stealth. And yes knowledgable westerners from other sites are NOW also saying same things including head of the plane being too large thus nonaerodynamic and slower than F22 despite having almost the same thrust. That is not a small MISTAKE either. Can anyone guess for which reasons?

Modern IRST will detect even the most stealthy engine available from tens of km, supressing heat signature in those heights is unlikely. That's probably one of the reason why the Americans didn't applied the same F-22 RCS/IR rear supression profile on the F-35.

The AESA radar planned for the MMU will be larger than the one in the F-22 that's why the head is also larger makes sense, no? And what "knowledgable" westerners say on Forums doesn't matter, you think TUSAS didn't tested the aerodynamics? Seems like people can calculate and guess the aerodynamics of the aircraft by just looking at some images better than TUSAS who has build facilities extra for this purpose or computer simulations...

 

[Radko]

Also guys, vertical stab. is over the engines because of vortex generated by the aircraft. Engines are more seperated from eachother compared to F-22, so the v.stabs end up over the engine.

I dont see the problem with this, also I dont see a problem with the canopy too, it is just elevated a bit more compared to F-22s because of the bigger radome and IRST, other than that it is blended with the fuselage, like the F-35

 

[DBdev]

Modern IRST will detect even the most stealthy engine available from tens of km, supressing heat signature in those heights is unlikely. That's probably one of the reason why the Americans didn't applied the same F-22 RCS/IR rear supression profile on the F-35.

The AESA radar planned for the MMU will be larger than the one in the F-22 that's why the head is also larger makes sense, no? And what "knowledgable" westerners say on Forums doesn't matter, you think TUSAS didn't tested the aerodynamics? Seems like people can calculate and guess the aerodynamics of the aircraft by just looking at some images better than TUSAS who has build facilities extra for this purpose or computer simulations...

True but difference is who identifies whom first? The plane with even SLIGHTLY better IR stealth will "see first, shoot first" when other parameters are equal. Imagine TF-X going against F-22 for some reason...

It is not just about detection it is also deadly critical in evading AA missiles.

TUSAS this tusas that. TUSAS is not LM mate they are going to make mistakes as novices in stealth game for sure. Tusas also made the 2 previous models (mockup, animation) but when it came to production, realities did not match dreams. These things I have listed are COMPRIMISES not improvements. I agree, comprimise because of large BURFIS radar played a role but still cockpit didn't have to be THAT high.

Agility, speed, fuel economy, max altitude, range, stealth.... almost EVERYTHING will be negatively affected from a larger, higher cockpit. If they did this to improve field of vision, it was unnecessary since high tech helmet is supposed to give pilot transparent cockpit view anyway and cost is too high. F22 is the gold standard on the PLANET. The more you go in a different direction as a novice producer, the more you will make things worse. Just my opinion.

 

[Boz]

 

[boredaf]

Just my opinion.

Then maybe try not to talk as if you and those "knowledgeable westerners" you mention are the only ones who knows what they are talking about and people who actually worked on this plane are morons who doesn't know what they are doing.

 

[Saithan]

It’s beautiful, and it’s completed its taxi run at low speed.That’s what matters. I’m looking forward to the next tests it has to complete, and hope it’s within a weeks time.

 

[Quasar]

what is significant and unique about MMU is, MMU can be considered as the first real multi role stealth fighter.

 

[Radko]

True but difference is who identifies whom first? The plane with even SLIGHTLY better IR stealth will "see first, shoot first" when other parameters are equal. Imagine TF-X going against F-22 for some reason...

It is not just about detection it is also deadly critical in evading AA missiles.

TUSAS this tusas that. TUSAS is not LM mate they are going to make mistakes as novices in stealth game for sure. Tusas also made the 2 previous models (mockup, animation) but when it came to production, realities did not match dreams. These things I have listed are COMPRIMISES not improvements. I agree, comprimise because of large BURFIS radar played a role but still cockpit didn't have to be THAT high.

Agility, speed, fuel economy, max altitude, range, stealth.... almost EVERYTHING will be negatively affected from a larger, higher cockpit. If they did this to improve field of vision, it was unnecessary since high tech helmet is supposed to give pilot transparent cockpit view anyway and cost is too high. F22 is the gold standard on the PLANET. The more you go in a different direction as a novice producer, the more you will make things worse. Just my opinion.

All of the things you have said are BS and I am not going to waste time with that. With that having a gun is also unnecessary. Also no, seems like you are the guy who did CFD analysis on TF-X?

Cockpit is not even *THAT* high compared to F-22, like dafuq?

Why don't you email these to TAI then, seems like you know better than them, oh let's not forget TurAF

 

[Radko]

what is significant and unique about MMU is, MMU can be considered as the first real multi role stealth fighter.

F-35 is the first, TF-X will be the second one.

 

[Melkör]

Cockpit is not even *THAT* high compared to F-22, like dafuq?

Exactly!!

 

[Ryder]

True but difference is who identifies whom first? The plane with even SLIGHTLY better IR stealth will "see first, shoot first" when other parameters are equal. Imagine TF-X going against F-22 for some reason...

It is not just about detection it is also deadly critical in evading AA missiles.

TUSAS this tusas that. TUSAS is not LM mate they are going to make mistakes as novices in stealth game for sure. Tusas also made the 2 previous models (mockup, animation) but when it came to production, realities did not match dreams. These things I have listed are COMPRIMISES not improvements. I agree, comprimise because of large BURFIS radar played a role but still cockpit didn't have to be THAT high.

Agility, speed, fuel economy, max altitude, range, stealth.... almost EVERYTHING will be negatively affected from a larger, higher cockpit. If they did this to improve field of vision, it was unnecessary since high tech helmet is supposed to give pilot transparent cockpit view anyway and cost is too high. F22 is the gold standard on the PLANET. The more you go in a different direction as a novice producer, the more you will make things worse. Just my opinion.

Lockheed is like a 100 year old company same with boeing.

Pretty retarded to compare a 100 year old company that is already a big ass giant in the aircraft and aerospace world.

Mmu is no F22 so keep the expectations low.

What has been achieved is good news because now Turkiye is on the path to making its own jets. It will get better overtime.

If Tusas is doing its own thing rather than copying the F22. I say that is great really. Better to try something new rather than just copying a design.

If it doesnt work those engineers will figure out something. You got no wind tunnel so your argument has no weight to it.

 

[Radko]

I don't get it, it is not even that high compared to F-22 lol

 

[Radko]

Comparing companies are not exactly a good way, in that way Sukhoi and MiG should also be better than TAI, but i would bet on them being not. Or AVIC, it is kind of recent compared to US or Russian ones, but they are one of the best.


There is no reason to blindly say that something made by TAI will be inferior to F-22 which was designed 25 years ago. Or F-35 in that regard (tho F-35 is more related to ASELSAN because of subsystems)

 

[Kedikesenfare]

This is a prototype. Changes are inevitable. Why can't we all agree on this and move on?

 

[Radko]

Because people think that TAI will design a new aircraft for serial production just to meet their aesthetics. Changes will definitely happen, there and here. But don't expect a major airframe redesign.

Function over form. (+I don't get why it seems ugly to people)