TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Cabatli_TR

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Defence Turkey: Milli Muharip U├žak (MMU/TF-X) ve ├ľn Tasar─▒m A┼čamas─▒ Temmuz 2020ÔÇÖde tamamlanan H├╝rJet Projelerinde gelinen son durum hakk─▒nda bize neler s├Âyleyebilirsiniz? Prototip Faz ve ara ├ž├Âz├╝m motor (interim engine) ihtiyac─▒ ├žer├ževesinde MMU/TF-X i├žin F110-GE-129E, H├╝rJet i├žin de EuroJet EJ200 turbofan motorlar─▒ tercih edilmi┼č olsa da her iki projede de ilerleyen s├╝re├žlerde milli turbofan motorlar─▒n kullan─▒lmas─▒ hedeflenmi┼čti. S├Âz konusu motorlar─▒n tedarik ├žal─▒┼čmalar─▒nda gelinen son durum hakk─▒nda bize neler s├Âyleyebilirsiniz?

Prof.─░smail DEM─░R:
S├╝re├žler kendi mecralar─▒nda gidiyor. Motor se├žimi ile ilgili verilen kararlar, bu motorlar zaten ilk prototip u├žaklar i├žin d├╝┼č├╝n├╝ld├╝. Belli say─▒da u├žaklarda muhtemelen yap─▒lamayacak ama nihai anlamda, yine kendi motorlar─▒m─▒z─▒ bu u├žaklar─▒ yeti┼čtirebilmek. Tabii ┼ču durumda var, bir motor se├žersiniz ve u├žak ona g├Âre tasarlan─▒r biz onun da fark─▒nday─▒z. Prototip i├žin se├žti─čimiz motorlarla, geli┼čtirdi─čimiz motorlar─▒n belirli parametrelerde birbirine yak─▒n olmas─▒n─▒ hedefledi─čimiz i├žin, zaten bu motorlar─▒ se├žtik. O a├ž─▒dan projelerimizin daha da h─▒zlanmas─▒ laz─▒m diyoruz. ├ľnemli a┼čamalar kat ettik. Zaman zaman g├Âzden ge├žirme toplant─▒lar─▒ yap─▒yoruz, gidi┼čat─▒ analiz ediyoruz.


Turkey is developing turbofan engines for not only Tf-X but also H├╝rjet.
 

Zafer

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Prof.─░smail DEM─░R: S├╝re├žler kendi mecralar─▒nda gidiyor. Motor se├žimi ile ilgili verilen kararlar, bu motorlar zaten ilk prototip u├žaklar i├žin d├╝┼č├╝n├╝ld├╝. Belli say─▒da u├žaklarda muhtemelen yap─▒lamayacak ama nihai anlamda, yine kendi motorlar─▒m─▒z─▒ bu u├žaklar─▒ yeti┼čtirebilmek. Tabii ┼ču durumda var, bir motor se├žersiniz ve u├žak ona g├Âre tasarlan─▒r biz onun da fark─▒nday─▒z. Prototip i├žin se├žti─čimiz motorlarla, geli┼čtirdi─čimiz motorlar─▒n belirli parametrelerde birbirine yak─▒n olmas─▒n─▒ hedefledi─čimiz i├žin, zaten bu motorlar─▒ se├žtik. O a├ž─▒dan projelerimizin daha da h─▒zlanmas─▒ laz─▒m diyoruz. ├ľnemli a┼čamalar kat ettik. Zaman zaman g├Âzden ge├žirme toplant─▒lar─▒ yap─▒yoruz, gidi┼čat─▒ analiz ediyoruz.
Turkey is developing turbofan engines for not only Tf-X but also H├╝rjet.

This is not clearly stated by ─░smail Demir but it makes sense to develop a smaller turbofan engine for H├╝rjet and possible UCAVs that may follow later.
 

RadarGudumluMuhimmat

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If the Hurjet is still a single engine design, they'll need a 20,000 lbf turbofan at least. If Turkey is planning to develop that engine, then they can split the development cost with Pakistan because Pakistan could use such an engine for Project AZM.


Tubitak Mam is able to manufacture single crystal blades for a turbine in this thrust class for the TS1400. Our teacher, who previously worked at TEI at our university, said, "All parts except turbine blades can be produced by TEI, including the combustion chambers, but this technology was not developed from scratch like turbine blades, it was offered by GE as technology transfer due to joint production and supply, most people. The reason why the production (or more precisely, the licenses) of the T70s, which TAI currently manufactures under license, was given late was that America did not want to give the metallurgical information required for the combustion chamber of the T700-701D engines, and it went through this congress much later. It does not entrust such a flow of data to a country it considers more hostile than.
 

Bilal Khan(Quwa) 

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Tubitak Mam is able to manufacture single crystal blades for a turbine in this thrust class for the TS1400. Our teacher, who previously worked at TEI at our university, said, "All parts except turbine blades can be produced by TEI, including the combustion chambers, but this technology was not developed from scratch like turbine blades, it was offered by GE as technology transfer due to joint production and supply, most people. The reason why the production (or more precisely, the licenses) of the T70s, which TAI currently manufactures under license, was given late was that America did not want to give the metallurgical information required for the combustion chamber of the T700-701D engines, and it went through this congress much later. It does not entrust such a flow of data to a country it considers more hostile than.
BTW when I say, "get Pakistan to co-fund..." Turkey shouldn't have to share technology/IP with Pakistan. Rather, it should solve Pakistan's main concern: guaranteed engine supplies.

For the funding, maybe Turkey can set-up an assembly plant for the engines in Pakistan (with kits from Turkey so that Turkey controls IP), but Pakistan secures it supply chain.

Overall, Pakistan's concern is just protecting its supply chain so that it doesn't get sanctioned in war. It doesn't care as much about IP, exports, etc. Turkey can handle all that.
 
Y

Yoyo

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Tabii ┼ču durumda var, bir motor se├žersiniz ve u├žak ona g├Âre tasarlan─▒r biz onun da fark─▒nday─▒z. Prototip i├žin se├žti─čimiz motorlarla, geli┼čtirdi─čimiz motorlar─▒n belirli parametrelerde birbirine yak─▒n olmas─▒n─▒ hedefledi─čimiz i├žin, zaten bu motorlar─▒ se├žtik.
Very important point here. I was wondering about that. Thanks for sharing bro.
 

RadarGudumluMuhimmat

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BTW when I say, "get Pakistan to co-fund..." Turkey shouldn't have to share technology/IP with Pakistan. Rather, it should solve Pakistan's main concern: guaranteed engine supplies.

For the funding, maybe Turkey can set-up an assembly plant for the engines in Pakistan (with kits from Turkey so that Turkey controls IP), but Pakistan secures it supply chain.

Overall, Pakistan's concern is just protecting its supply chain so that it doesn't get sanctioned in war. It doesn't care as much about IP, exports, etc. Turkey can handle all that.


I don't think Pakistan will order a bespoke engine and provide financial aid for it, this is very optimistic. Turkey to time in the future you will be able to supply the engine is already able to supply from China. I don't even know if the RD93 paid Klimov for the MA version.
 

bsruzm

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Old news from ─░smail Demir:

- We trying to pull TF: Turkish Fighter (MMU) first flight to 2025.
- We are working on models A, B and C.
- 7 TF prototypes (six for flight tests and one for ground tests) in three different configurations dubbed Block-0 (first test model which will be rolled out in 2023), Block-I (air-superiority model planned to achieve IOC in 2028) and Block-II (multi-role model with air superiority plus air-to-ground capabilities, planned to achieve FOC in 2031) will be manufactured for test, evaluation and qualification purposes.
 

Cabatli_TR

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The deals related with Tf-X

  • Tusa┼č-Artificial Intelligence Structures: The design and production of eight flight control rods and the determination of the company as the preferred supplier for the future production of 200 products
  • Havelsan-TrMotor: The development and certification of engine avionic control units. In these systems, the local and national Real-Time Operating System (GIS) developed by T├ťB─░TAK B─░LGEM will be used.
  • TAI-Havelsan: Embedded Training, Training and Maintenance Simulators and engineering support (Virtual Test Environment, project-level software development, and cybersecurity).
  • Havelsan MMU engineering team: (~500 engineers) are writing more than 20 million code of line softwares for Tf-X fighter computers(Source: Havelsan manager). (f35 has 24 million code of line software)
  • TAI-Aselsan: Gallium-nitride (GaN) Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar, Integrated Processing Computer (Mission Computer), Infrared Search and Track (IRST) System (in front of the cockpit), Integrated EW Suit, as well as a Integrated Electro-Optical Targeting System (which is abbreviated as BEOS in Turkish and will have a similar function as the Electro-Optical Targeting System [EOTS] on the F-35), Helmet Mounted Sight System (HMDS, there is no HUD at the cockpit) and an Integrated Cockpit Display System (panoramic cockpit. Aselsan also is developing Integrated RF System (abbreviated as B├ťRF─░S in Turkish) for the MMU/TF-X. The B├ťRF─░S Project aims to increase the Technology Readiness Level (TRL) by developing critical technology elements with national means such as: Low Visibility Radar and Electronic Warfare Integrated Antenna Designs suitable for 5th Generation aircraft structure. Radar and EW Integrated Receiver/Transmitter Structures. AESA-based Combat Aircraft Radar Algorithms with simultaneous function capability. Broadband high-performance RF Components.
  • TAI-T├╝bitak: The Integrated Processing Unit (IPU, a mission computer and abbreviated as B├ť─░T in Turkish)
  • TAI-TrMotor: National turbofan engine (max.30000lbf class)
  • TAI-BAE System: Consultancy and Engineering help for over all stealth design fuselage
 

Oublious

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The deals related with Tf-X

  • Tusa┼č-Artificial Intelligence Structures: The design and production of eight flight control rods and the determination of the company as the preferred supplier for the future production of 200 products
  • Havelsan-TrMotor: The development and certification of engine avionic control units. In these systems, the local and national Real-Time Operating System (GIS) developed by T├ťB─░TAK B─░LGEM will be used.
  • TAI-Havelsan: Embedded Training, Training and Maintenance Simulators and engineering support (Virtual Test Environment, project-level software development, and cybersecurity).
  • Havelsan MMU engineering team: (~500 engineers) are writing more than 20 million code of line softwares for Tf-X fighter computers(Source: Havelsan manager). (f35 has 24 million code of line software)
  • TAI-Aselsan: Gallium-nitride (GaN) Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar, Integrated Processing Computer (Mission Computer), Infrared Search and Track (IRST) System (in front of the cockpit), Integrated EW Suit, as well as a Integrated Electro-Optical Targeting System (which is abbreviated as BEOS in Turkish and will have a similar function as the Electro-Optical Targeting System [EOTS] on the F-35), Helmet Mounted Sight System (HMDS, there is no HUD at the cockpit) and an Integrated Cockpit Display System (panoramic cockpit. Aselsan also is developing Integrated RF System (abbreviated as B├ťRF─░S in Turkish) for the MMU/TF-X. The B├ťRF─░S Project aims to increase the Technology Readiness Level (TRL) by developing critical technology elements with national means such as: Low Visibility Radar and Electronic Warfare Integrated Antenna Designs suitable for 5th Generation aircraft structure. Radar and EW Integrated Receiver/Transmitter Structures. AESA-based Combat Aircraft Radar Algorithms with simultaneous function capability. Broadband high-performance RF Components.
  • TAI-T├╝bitak: The Integrated Processing Unit (IPU, a mission computer and abbreviated as B├ť─░T in Turkish)
  • TAI-TrMotor: National turbofan engine (max.30000lbf class)
  • TAI-BAE System: Consultancy and Engineering help for over all stealth design fuselage


It is getting form the project....
 

Reviewbrah

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We need a 4th+ gen aircraft as much as we need 5th gen.

My biggest concern about MMU is the cost

Developing 4th gen before MMU would had been much more risk free approach (we would even get to have a carrier based aircraft)
 

Yasar_TR

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We need a 4th+ gen aircraft as much as we need 5th gen.

My biggest concern about MMU is the cost

Developing 4th gen before MMU would had been much more risk free approach (we would even get to have a carrier based aircraft)
First batch of TFX will be a 4+ gen aircraft with a Low RCS.
In fact it will be a souped up f15 with a fairly low RCS.
 

Reviewbrah

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First batch of TFX will be a 4+ gen aircraft with a Low RCS.
In fact it will be a souped up f15 with a fairly low RCS.
There is a saying that best fighter aircraft is the one you can afford to operate regularly

MMU will be an very expensive aircraft, especially at initial production. Possible partners to MMU will not be able to invest large sum to the program. Funding of MMU depends on Turkish economy.

I wish there was a program with Pakistan etc. to co-develop a cost-effective 4th+ gen multi role fighter as a stop gap for our current aging fleet.
 
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Bogeyman 

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1.png


Source of the news Defense Turkey magazine 97th issue
The news is not new. No need for excitement.
 

Oublious

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Do we want to work with a Western company still after what ther goverment acting against us?
 

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