TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Cenkcnk]

When your surname is Turkish but yet you are a big hater of Turkiye
What is his suggestion? Begging for new planes to USA or EU?

 

[Merzifonlu]

When your surname is Turkish but yet you are a big hater of Turkiye

He is a "Karamanlı"

Note: Karamanlis are Orthodox Christian Turks who mostly lived in Karaman, Konya, Kayseri and surrounding areas. They were immigrated to Greece during the population exchange in 1926. Karamanli Turks have a rich written literature. These works are in Turkish and written in the Greek alphabet.

 

[No Name]

But there is also criticism of the Kaan, especially because it is initially only a prototype and does not contain much Turkish technology in it. The Kaan was designed by BAE-Systems from Great Britain, its software comes from the French group Dassault, explains security expert Özge Kilinc in conversation with fr.de from IPPEN.MEDIA.

This has to be the second dumbest thing I read today; what is France getting credit for in this project?

 

[Lool]

Guys, I would like to inquire about the software developed in order to operate KAAN; in particular, the company which developed it, as some state that it is French Dassault while others state that it is Turkish Havelsan and Aslesan

Which is correct?

 

[uçuyorum]

Guys, I would like to inquire about the software developed in order to operate KAAN; in particular, the company which developed it, as some state that it is French Dassault while others state that it is Turkish Havelsan and Aslesan

Which is correct?

Dassault makes the digital twin software that I know. There are many different pieces of software to develop such a system but on board software is most likely local all around.

 

[Huelague]

Someone said the color doesn't matter etc. About the canopy when I said the same. Ofc it matters the color is different in the American fighters due to the materials in it as you know and obviously we haven't produced something similar yet, unfortunately. However, I'm sure it won't be like that at the end...

I'm not talking about colour. I'm talking size and height. This was mentioned T. Kotil.

 

[Huelague]

Look at the author's name

Always do first.

 

[No Name]

Dassault makes the digital twin software that I know. There are many different pieces of software to develop such a system but on board software is most likely local all around.

In other words, what they are essentially saying is that since person A bought a paintbrush from person B, the painting made by person A is actually made by person B.

on a side note did we ever learn if the MURAD radar was used on that F-16?

 

[uçuyorum]

In other words, what they are essentially saying is that since person A bought a paintbrush from person B, the painting made by person A is actually made by person B.

on a side note did we ever learn if the MURAD radar was used on that F-16?

The tweet was deleted about Murad so I guess not.

 

[Agha Sher]

​

Propaganda before the election: Turkey relies on "Kaan" - Converted F-16 is Erdogan's prestige object

Status: 02/22/2024, 5:27 p.m.

From: Erkan Pehlivan

CommentsPrintShare

The fighter jet "Kaan" completes its maiden flight. Before the local elections in Turkey, the aircraft is primarily intended to give President Erdogan a boost.

Ankara - Turkey wants its own combat aircraft of the so-called 5th Generation to produce. That's why the "Kaan" counts as a prestige project of the Turkish defense industry. On Tuesday (20. February) the machine took off for the first time.

The Kaan is also an alternative to the American F-35. However, Turkey was excluded from the F-35 program after purchasing the Russian air defense system S-400. Now Ankara even has problems buying F-16 fighter planes from the USA.

The joy of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his government was all the greater. "Today we experienced one of the proudest days of the Turkish defense industry," Erdogan wrote on X and announced further tests for the Kaan. "A historic day for the Turkish defense industry! The Turkish stealth fighter jet of the 5th Generation has successfully completed its maiden flight. We are proud of everyone involved," his Finance Minister Mehmet Simsek also wrote on X.

Kaan - Western technology that was modified in Turkey

But there is also criticism of the Kaan, especially because it is initially only a prototype and does not contain much Turkish technology in it. The Kaan was designed by BAE-Systems from Great Britain, its software comes from the French group Dassault, explains security expert Özge Kilinc in conversation with fr.de from IPPEN.MEDIA. "The F110-GE engines come from the USA, which are also installed in the F-16 fighter aircraft." Western technologies are built into the Kaan, which were only modified in Turkey. Kilinc was editor-in-chief of the former military magazine Turkish Defence and reporter of the former industry magazine Savunma ve Havacılık.

Currently, the prototype is not yet a combat aircraft of the 5th. Generation. It is still visible on the radar screen and still does not meet the other requirements for this, says the expert. "It's not easy to be a combat aircraft of the 5th. Generation if you have not previously manufactured first, second, third and fourth generation combat aircraft. This all looks like election propaganda."

Kaan will not be able to replace F-16 from the USA

In addition, the Kaan will not be able to replace the existing and the F-16 ordered from the USA so quickly. "Finally, only ten machines are to be manufactured by 2029," says Kilinc. This will prove to be difficult. It is not yet clear whether, for example, there will be a separate engine for the Kaan by then or whether a foreign company will deliver it.

Other experts are also skeptical whether the Kaan is a miracle weapon of the 5th. Generation acts. Because of the cockpit design, the desired half-camoufling capability of the Kaan probably cannot be achieved, writes Remzi Barlas, who was previously chief engineer for drones for the state aviation group TAI (Turkish Aerospace Industries), in a post on Linkedin. This is also the company that received the order for the Kaan.

Barlas was released from the state corporation and later had to go to prison for two months. He was accused of "espionage." The engineer had made himself unpopular because he accused the government of preferring the "Baykar" group in the construction of military drones. By the way, the company belongs to the family of Erdogan's son-in-law SelcukBayraktar, who also builds the famous "Bayraktar-TB2."

Turkish technology for Kaan not mature

It is unclear when ASELSAN's AESA (Active Electronic Scanning Array) radar, which is the backbone of the aircraft's main impact capacity, will reach its full capability. Two F-110 engines, which are also used in F-16 aircraft, were temporarily used in Kaan/MMU, but it is not possible to achieve the range and load capacity originally intended for the aircraft with these engines," says Barlas.

It currently seems impossible to procure an engine with the performance intended in the design of the aircraft. "Even if an engine for this aircraft is found, the first operational capability will be achieved in ten years at best," says Barlas. "In view of the fact that the domestic engine development at TEI (TUSAS Engine Industries Inc.) will continue for many years, the more likely period is about 15 years."

Arms industry as an advertising platform for Erdogan

The Kaan will be held before the upcoming local elections on the 31st. March presented. All the more political calculation is suspected in the demonstration of the Kaan. "The armaments industry was Erdoğan's most important propaganda platform in the last elections. The first flight of the Kaan aircraft has been postponed several times. The reason for these postponements was that the first flight should take place before the elections. Although the flight is technically problematic, it is important for propaganda," says Turkish investigative journalist Cevheri Güven, who lives in exile in Germany. And Erdogan has set himself a lot of goals. On the 1st In April, the metropolis of Istanbul and the capital Ankara are to be back in the hands of its AKP.

Propaganda vor der Wahl: Türkei setzt auf „Kaan“ – Umgebaute F-16 ist Erdogans Prestigeobjekt

Der Kampfjet „Kaan“ absolviert seinen Jungfernflug. Vor den Kommunalwahlen in der Türkei soll das Flugzeug vor allem Präsident Erdogan Schub verleihen.

www.merkur.de

German dogs. they can't even keep their current military running.

 

[_Mu_]

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well i guess this will answer all of the question eh ??

But in almost every social media platform if you notice most discutions now are less and less eating up this nonsense anymore

 

[Huelague]

Dassault makes the digital twin software that I know. There are many different pieces of software to develop such a system but on board software is most likely local all around.

The software tool is from Dessault. The software itself is from Turkiye. Maybe Tubitak.

 

[Afif]

The software tool is from Dessault. The software itself is from Turkiye. Maybe Tubitak.

Nope. The whole software package was purchased from Dassault for approximately 60 millions USD.

I think you are confusing KAAN's source code and system related software with manufacturing and design/development process. (Which is where Digital Twin is used)

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Erfolgreicher Erstflug

Mit diesem Meilenstein gelingt der Türkei der Aufstieg zur Kampfjet-Nation​

Stand: 16:48 Uhr | Lesedauer: 3 Minuten



Von Gerhard Hegmann
Freier Wirtschaftsredakteur

Der künftige Stolz der türkischen Luftwaffe: der Kampfjet „Kaan“

Quelle: picture alliance / Anadolu

Es dauerte zwar ungewöhnlich kurz, doch der Kampfjet „Kaan“ hat seinen Erstflug erfolgreich absolviert. Für den türkischen Präsidenten Erdogan bedeutet das einen Triumph über die USA. Zunehmend strebt Ankara eine Autarkie bei der Herstellung moderner Kampfflugzeuge an.



Es ist ein historischer Meilenstein für die stark wachsende Rüstungsindustrie der Türkei: Der eigene Kampfjet mit der Bezeichnung „Kaan“ – was im Türkischen so viel bedeutet wie „Herrscher“ – hat seinen Erstflug erfolgreich absolviert.

Der zweistrahlige Kampfjet ist ein Modell der sogenannten 5. Generation mit Tarnkappeneigenschaft. Er ist also vom Radar schwer zu erfassen. Bis der künftige Stolz der türkischen Luftwaffe einsatzbereit ist, wird aber noch Jahre dauern.

Der Erstflug in Mürted bei Ankara dauerte nach Angaben des Chefs des Luftfahrtkonzerns Turkish Aerospace Industries, Temel Kotil, 13 Minuten bei einer Flughöhe bis zu 2,44 Kilometer. Das ist ungewöhnlich kurz. Zum Vergleich: Vor 30 Jahren landete der Eurofighter bei seinem Premierenflug erst nach 40 Minuten.


Für den türkischen Präsidenten Recep Tayyip Erdogan ist der Erstflug des eigenen Kampfjets ein Triumph über die USA. Die Türkei war ursprünglich an der Produktion von Amerikas Kampfjet F-35 beteiligt, den künftig auch Deutschland erhält.


Als die Türkei jedoch russische S-400 Flugabwehrsysteme kaufte, beendeten 2019 die USA die F-35-Beteiligung Ankaras. Nunmehr war Erdogan noch engagierter, sein eigenes Kampfjetprojekt voranzutreiben – um unabhängiger zu werden.

Die Türkei strebt an, weltweit eines der wenigen Länder zu werden, die über die gesamte Wertschöpfungskette für die Herstellung moderner Kampfflugzeuge verfügt – von der Technologie über die Infrastruktur bis hin zu Beschäftigten mit dem Know-how und den Fertigungskapazitäten. In verschiedenen türkischen Unternehmen werden moderne Sensoren, Radare und andere Rüstungstechnik entwickelt.

Erstflug hat sich immer wieder verzögert​

Die 2011 gestartete Entwicklung eines eigenen Kampfjets mit der damaligen Bezeichnung TFX (Turkish Fighter Experimental) wurde durch den F-35-Rauswurf zum nationalen Prestigeprojekt. Ursprünglich sollte der von Erdogan mit dem Namen „Kaan“ bezeichnete 21 Meter lange Fighter bereits im vergangenen Jahr zu den Feierlichkeiten zur Gründung der Republik vor 100 Jahren abheben. Dann hieß es, zum Jahresende 2023.

Nun hat der Erstflug geklappt, mit dem sich die Türkei einen Platz im Kreis der Nationen mit eigenem Kampfjet sichert. Zuletzt war 2022 Südkorea ebenfalls mit einem Tarnkappenjet der 5. Generation dieser Gruppe beigetreten.

Noch ist der vom Luftfahrtkonzern Turkish Aerospace Industries entwickelte und gebaute Kampfjet indirekt auf US-Technik angewiesen, denn die beiden Triebwerke stammen von General Electric. Aber die Türkei arbeitet auch hier an einer eigenen Lösung. Erste Auslieferungen des „Kaan“-Jets an die türkische Luftwaffe sind ab 2028 geplant.


Schrittweise löst sich das Nato-Mitglied Türkei damit von der US-Abhängigkeit. Die Unabhängigkeit gilt als „nationales Interesse“. Historisch gesehen entwickelt sich die Türkei von einer verlängerten Werkbank der US-Rüstungsindustrie mit einstiger Lizenzfertigung von F-16-US-Kampfjets zum eigenen Produzenten.

Branchenkenner sprechen von einer inzwischen beeindruckenden Palette türkischer Modelle, mit der Ankara nach Autarkie bei der Waffenbeschaffung strebt und sich selbst zum Rüstungsexporteur entwickelt. Das Portfolio reicht von Drohnen des Herstellers Baykar, die von der Ukraine im Angriffskrieg der Russen genutzt werden, über den Erstflug der großen unbemannten Kampfdrohne Anka 3 im Dezember 2023 bis zum aktuellen Premierenflug von „Kaan“.

Die unbemannte türkische Kampfdrohne „Anka 3“

Quelle: picture alliance / AA

Der Kampfjet soll zwar etwa ab 2030 das US-Modell F-16 bei der türkischen Luftwaffe ganz oder teilweise ablösen. Aber dennoch braucht Ankara als Übergangslösung neue Kampfjets. Hier gab es im Januar einen Durchbruch. Nachdem die Türkei den Beitritt Schwedens zur Nato ratifizierte, gaben die USA grünes Licht für weitere 40 F-16 Kampfjets.

In einem Gesamtpaket über 23 Milliarden Dollar werden F-16-Jets der Türken modernisiert, neue Exemplare sowie Radare und Bomben geliefert. Angeblich wird sogar eine Wiederaufnahme der Türkei in das F-35-Programm diskutiert.

Pikant ist, dass die USA im Januar ebenfalls beschlossen, für 8,6 Milliarden Dollar auch an Griechenland neue Kampfjets zu liefern – ausgerechnet F-35. Nach wie vor wird wohl ebenfalls über einen Kauf von Eurofighter-Kampfjets an die Türkei gesprochen.

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Truth is, I think Die Welt is a crappy biased piece of shit. I added it just to give a general idea acout how this is received in German press.

At Welt.de, a German news site, there are easily over 300-400 hate comments from Germans.... and then they accuse us of having an exaggerated national consciousness.
They are literally foaming at the mouth with anger and envy and make claims such as that he is no good and that Turks in general are no good and are using Germany's money for this while their people are starving through the economy.

 

[Huelague]

Nope. The whole software package was purchased from Dassault for approximately 60 millions USD.

I think you are confusing KAAN's source code and system related software with manufacturing and design/development process. (Which is where Digital Twin is used)

You mean CAD/CAS. Yes, I mixed up.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Quote:
Stage two of the first phase is now under way, the challenging timelines so far having been facilitated through the use of a ‘digital twin’, using the Dassault Systemes’ 3DExperience product lifecycle management (PLM) platform.
Unquote.

This has been the extent of the Dassault input to the KAAN project.

Anyone trying to detract from the wonderful achievement of Turkish engineering team, is nit picking and wasting time due to jealousy.

Yes there is still a long way to go.:
We need an indigenous engine
We need an Aesa Radar.
We need to iron out many points in design etc.
But these are part of the planned development hurdles that need to be overcome for any plane that has just performed it's maiden flight.

 

[Quasar]

Just as a footnote: Turkish Companies Like BİTES (you can read it ASELSAN) and Alp Havacılık are/will soon be important players in Digital tiwin technology.

 

[uçuyorum]

Just as a footnote: Turkish Companies Like BİTES (you can read it ASELSAN) and Alp Havacılık are/will soon be important players in Digital tiwin technology.

Well that sounds nice but is a tremendous undertaking of its own

 

[Merzifonlu]

using Germany's money for this

How do we use Germany's money? Did the Germans give money to the project? Is the money left by immigrants who went there from Turkey while on holiday or their personal investments here belonging to Germany? So this cannot be the individual will of immigrant German citizens. Apparently the Nazi mentality never changes!

 

[Afif]

Are we being serious here? Like why are we taking some 3rd tier magazine's random article and some idiots online comments as representation of the whole nation?