TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Radko]

I don't know why you are taking that presentation as the only and sole true source, there were many revisions made to the project and aircraft after that.


It is 3 years old ffs



You see, if you take that presentation as your source, Kaan is not able to carry most of Turkish munitions at all.



Also according to that presentation, there needs to be 3 development aircraft, not 7

 

[Dosirak]

I don't know why you are taking that presentation as the only and sole true source, there were many revisions made to the project and aircraft after that.


It is 3 years old ffs

If you have any other evidence than I am happy to be listen.

However, there is no point of further discussion if you don't have any source and don't understand that design & engineering of modern combat aircraft are difficult to modify without further delay.

You see, if you take that presentation as your source, Kaan is not able to carry most of Turkish munitions at all.

Perhaps TF-X can't carry some Turkish weapons because of weight & dimension limits and it is not unusual. Even F-22 can't carry all American weapons internally.

 

[Radko]

TÜBİTAK SAGE Türkiye'nin yeni füzelerini hazırlıyor

TÜBİTAK SAGE, yüksek teknoloji ürünü bir dizi füze ve mühimmatı güvenlik güçlerinin kullanımına sunmaya hazırlanıyor. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Here is an official confirmation of SOM-J in KAAN's IWB's (from head of Tübitak SAGE, ones who develop SOM-J)

 

[Radko]

Here, the discussion ends. There is no need to discuss further as it has been proven that A-K/2021-2 presentation is outdated to some extent and not a reliable source for your claims

Just a tip, don't be too fixated

 

[Dosirak]

TÜBİTAK SAGE Türkiye'nin yeni füzelerini hazırlıyor

TÜBİTAK SAGE, yüksek teknoloji ürünü bir dizi füze ve mühimmatı güvenlik güçlerinin kullanımına sunmaya hazırlanıyor. - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

Here is an official confirmation of SOM-J in KAAN's IWB's (from head of Tübitak SAGE, ones who develop SOM-J)

Nowhere in your article confirms that TF-X carries SOM-J internally. Turkish Airforce's presentation says that it is carried externally.

And your article was published before Turkish Airforce presented their overview of TF-X programme. Sigh. No more reply for you unless you bring up some actual evidence.

 

[Radko]

Nowhere in your article confirms that TF-X carries SOM-J internally. Turkish Airforce's presentation says that it is carried externally.

And your article was published before Turkish Airforce presented their overview of TF-X programme. Sigh. No more reply for you unless you bring up some actual evidence.

Are you trolling?

"SOM-J, F-35 iç istasyonu için geliştirilen bir seyir füzesi olmakla beraber hem F-16'da hem Milli Muharip Uçağımızın (MMU) iç istasyonunda kullanılabilecek çok yetenekli önemli bir seyir füzemiz. İHA tarafından çoklu taşıma imkanları da sağlayacağı için SOM-J'yi görebileceğimizi düşünüyorum."

"Although SOM-J is a cruise missile developed for the F-35 internal station, it is an important and very capable cruise missile that can be used both in the F-16 and in the internal station of our National Combat Aircraft (MMU). Since it will also provide multiple transportation opportunities by UAV, SOM-J I think we might see J.”

Yeah, you definitely are

 

[Dosirak]

Are you trolling?

"SOM-J, F-35 iç istasyonu için geliştirilen bir seyir füzesi olmakla beraber hem F-16'da hem Milli Muharip Uçağımızın (MMU) iç istasyonunda kullanılabilecek çok yetenekli önemli bir seyir füzemiz. İHA tarafından çoklu taşıma imkanları da sağlayacağı için SOM-J'yi görebileceğimizi düşünüyorum."


Yeah, you definitely are

A rough English translation of "SOM-J, F-35 iç istasyonu için geliştirilen bir seyir füzesi olmakla beraber hem F-16'da hem Milli Muharip Uçağımızın (MMU) iç istasyonunda kullanılabilecek çok yetenekli önemli bir seyir füzemiz. İHA tarafından çoklu taşıma imkanları da sağlayacağı için SOM-J'yi görebileceğimizi düşünüyorum. Entegrasyonla ilgili bazı çalışmalar başladı. F-16'dan ilk atış testlerimizi tamamladıktan sonra hızla bu yıl içinde İHA'larda da önemli yol alacağımızı düşünüyorum."

is Although SOM-J is a cruise missile developed for the F-35 internal station, it is an important and very capable cruise missile that can be used both on the F-16 and on the internal station of our National Combat Aircraft (MMU). I think we can see SOM-J as it will also provide multiple transportation opportunities by UAV. Some work on integration has started. "After completing our first firing tests from the F-16, I think we will make significant progress in UAVs this year."

How is that any official confirmation? The guy was basically saying his company will work on F-16 first then UAVs next. Never confirmed that TF-X will carry SOM-J internally.

Even your article is outdated. Your article was published in May, 2021 and Turkish Airforce presented the overview of TF-X program in June, 2021. So much for

There is no need to discuss further as it has been proven that A-K/2021-2 presentation is outdated to some extent and not a reliable sourc

Sigh.

I guess that's enough of me talking for today.

 

[infrared]

Nowhere in your article confirms that TF-X carries SOM-J internally. Turkish Airforce's presentation says that it is carried externally.

And your article was published before Turkish Airforce presented their overview of TF-X programme. Sigh. No more reply for you unless you bring up some actual evidence.

Dosirak, you are mostly correct. However, it is believed that SOM-M listed in below tweet is believed to be a variant of SOM for the İWB of MMU mentioned in the article. No concrete evidence, just people speculate that way.

x.com

x.com

 

[Radko]

I like how you are omitting MMU from your point of view.


Adam daha MMU, TF-X, KAAN ne bilmiyor bana projeyi öğretmeye çalışıyor, gerçekten yani...

(Sorry mods, I had to)



Mr.Superintelligent, "The guy" is head of the organisation that develops SOM, Gökdoğan, KGK etc.
>"and on the internal station of our National Combat Aircraft (MMU)."

 

[infrared]

Guys calm down.

If I say "Meteor missile can be used in the iwb of mmu", it does not necessarily mean mmu will use it. This is Dosirak's view.

 

[Radko]

Guys calm down.

If I say "Meteor missile can be used in the iwb of mmu", it does not necessarily mean mmu will use it. This is Dosirak's view.

No, he is talking about the "ability"

 

[infrared]

No, he is talking about the "ability"

Bro we are trying to find a middle ground. Please be more welcoming. We need more non-Turkiye affiliated people in this forum.

 

[Aqerdf]

Internal 1000lb figure was for "each" bay, one lookin with not-bad-faith should've saw that ?

Each main tandem bay was illustrated with 2x BVR or 4x SDB type of munition. Do you really think complete internal capacity is 1000lb with this payload ?

Anatolian Eagle 2021 Exercise - MMU Press Presentation is either old info right now or it is alteredly presented for INFOSEC and OPSEC.

Some fvked up rumors are okay and acceptable, but other than presentation from 2021, eeeverything is not correct and not acceptable and straight out lies...

Really...

 

[Yasar_TR]

Everyone please calm down. @Dosirak is asking and pointing out questions that need to be clarified.
Please reply amicably to the questions.

 

[uçuyorum]

I'm thinking out loud. Kaan iwb has 7 equally distant notches of sorts on sides. Now it has to be around 4 meters to fit som j or gökdoğan and if they are equally divided chances are maybe they are 2 feet apart, for a total of 14 = 4.2 meters. From there i speculate the width is around 1.8 meters and height is like 700-800cm to the steel structures on top. But these are me eyeballing. That tells me with addition of hardpoints, MK84 is a bit too thick, but you should be able to fit 2 or 3 MK83, or why not modify a more rectangular MK84 like munition?

Edit: wait MK84 diameter is 45cm not radius, that means it could fit 2?, in fact even if we take a lower estimate like 3.8 to 1.5 meter it should fit

 

[uçuyorum]

I'm thinking out loud. Kaan iwb has 7 equally distant notches of sorts on sides. Now it has to be around 4 meters to fit som j or gökdoğan and if they are equally divided chances are maybe they are 2 feet apart, for a total of 14 = 4.2 meters. From there i speculate the width is around 1.8 meters and height is like 700-800cm to the steel structures on top. But these are me eyeballing. That tells me with addition of hardpoints, MK84 is a bit too thick, but you should be able to fit 2 or 3 MK83, or why not modify a more rectangular MK84 like munition?

Edit: wait MK84 diameter is 45cm not radius, that means it could fit 2?, in fact even if we take a lower estimate like 3.8 to 1.5 meter it should fit

Still not too sure, or not sure if this is to scale

 

[uçuyorum]

Aviationweek magazine has released the long-awaited photo. The magazine published a photo of KAAN from the top on its cover. So I was able to compare its size with other planes. I got the dimensions of KAAN, F-15C and F-16C from wikipedia. I also added Photoshop's ruler to the image. So I was able to make a scaled size comparison using real photos.

Look at kaan and f15 in this and in presentation

 

[zio]

According to the statement and visual made on 2024 February, there are the following.

KAAN's ammunition integration will be carried out by TÜBİTAK SAGE.

SOM A, SOM B1, SOM B2, HGK 82, HGK 83, HGK 84, NEB, GÖKHAN, KGK 82, KGK 83, GÖKDOĞAN and BOZDOĞAN projects will be integrated into KAAN by TÜBİTAK SAGE.

Milli Muharip Uçağı KAAN, İlk Uçuşunu Gerçekleştirdi | TÜBİTAK | Türkiye Bilimsel ve Teknolojik Araştırma Kurumu

T.C. Sanayi ve Teknoloji Bakanlığı'nın ilgili kuruluşudur.

www.tubitak.gov.tr

I think somA and B for external integration

 

[TheInsider]

If you could recall the schedule of TF-X that Turkish Airforce presented during Anatolian Eagle 2021, the actual prototype of TF-X KAAN which should come after the conclusion of CDR is expected to make a maiden flight in late 2026 and IOC & FOC are expected to be declared sometime in 2030s. It seems to me that Turkish Airforce works with realistic schedule.

Meanwhile, India's AMCA team has concluded CDR and is about to enter production of AMCA prototypes and expects to conduct a maiden flight of AMCA in 2027~2028.

In terms of real prototypes that are manufactured after the initial product baseline is set, TF-X is probably like a year or a year and a half ahead over AMCA, but practically both projects are more or less are in the same position.

It will be interesting to watch both projects evolve over time.

That is an Air Force requirement. It is not an official timetable. Airforce says I want this milestone to be achieved by this date at worst. I want this level of performance at worst so that I can accept and use this fighter. According to the current TAI timetable, KAAN will conduct its first flight with its mission systems (like radar, IRST etc) by 2026.

 

[TheInsider]

I don't think India's problem is imperative population & economic growth to sustain any national aircraft project, but a copious amount of delay due to external & internal factors including the budget allocation issue as Indian military needs a lot of modernisation right now to properly protect herself.

However, I believe the most damning issue is, like TF-X, schism & disagreement between Indian Airforce and DRDO & HAL. For instance, Girish S Deodhare, Programme Director of Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) claimed back in 2021 that AMCA would roll out in 2024 and conduct a maiden flight in 2025 even though IAF (Indian Airforce) reportedly said that the schedule is very 'tight'.

Fast foward to 2024, yes CDR of AMCA is completed in 2023, but only recently in March, 2024 AMCA was approved to proceed to the prototpye stage. Now it is generally expected AMCA to make a maiden flight in 2027~2028. Who knows AMCA would suffer more delay.

At least, TF-X is on schedule that was presented by Turkish Airforce back in 2021...so far.

Turkish Aerospace has its unique approach to product development it is similar to Western product development processes at some points but different at some other points. That is why Baykar is so fast in product development.