TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Zafer]

So,we cant yet.
Dont do that,we are not others claiming to be or have when they are not and dont have.
Claim it in a ''few'' years when we have the engine.

We have accomplished the power turbine blade metallurgy, what else do you need to know to believe that we are very close to making capable turbine blades. It is easy to believe what you see but it will be too late to make plans based on it.

 

[Iskander]

How do you know the TF6000 will perform successfully in the near future? Ditto TF10000. Ditto a much more powerful indigenous design.

PS I think that TF6000 will be successful. When? No idea.

If calculations show that the project will be successful, what are the reasons for its failure? Just because it was implemented by inexperienced Turkish engineers?
Jet engines began to be produced about 100 years ago. It should also be taken into account that they were made by inexperienced engineers. Well, what could be the problem?
TEI PD 170 is said to be not only successful, but also a "champion" in its class. What does it mean?!

 

[TR_123456]

close

Yes close,thats all for now.

 

[Spitfire9]

If calculations show that the project will be successful, what are the reasons for its failure? Just because it was implemented by inexperienced Turkish engineers?
Jet engines began to be produced about 100 years ago. It should also be taken into account that they were made by inexperienced engineers. Well, what could be the problem?
TEI PD 170 is said to be not only successful, but also a "champion" in its class. What does it mean?!

I did not say the TF6000 would fail. I asked how it was certain it would be successful in the near future.

If jet engines were so easy to design, they would be designed, be built and work satisfactorily with only tests for confirmation of performance and reliability being required before being put into production. Has that ever happened with a GE, P&W, RR or SAFRAN engine?

 

[Zafer]

Yes close,thats all for now.

We made the TS1400 blades and the engine is ripe for mass production
We did the first run with the TF6000/TF10000 blades
We started making test parts for the upcoming TF350000 Kaan engine

What comes next in this sequence of milestones is the completion of making the parts required for the TF35000 engine to run which includes high end turbine blades. We are probably no further away than just one year before we complete building the engine.

While there is no insider information in this prediction it is the natural flow of events one can expect.

 

[I_Love_F16]

Türkiye can already make way better engines than what F110 can offer, it is just a matter of a few years of time.

What makes you think that ? Proof of the pudding is in the eating. When we will successfully complete all the required testing of the TF-35000, and deliver it, then we will be able to claim that.

 

[Iskander]

I did not say the TF6000 would fail. I asked how it was certain it would be successful in the near future.

If jet engines were so easy to design, they would be designed, be built and work satisfactorily with only tests for confirmation of performance and reliability being required before being put into production. Has that ever happened with a GE, P&W, RR or SAFRAN engine?

I don't know.
I am mainly interested in Russian engines. They have been working on two aircraft engines for a long time.
Russian engineers have enormous experience, but they have not yet achieved success. And they work on them for 10-15 years.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Individual part production expertise, is not a sign of capability of a complete turbofan engine manufacturing.
An accomplished engine manufacturer like SNECMA took years before M88-1 engine can be flown. In 1983 the engine project was started. In 1986 the plane was ready to house an engine; but no flyable engine. So GEF404 were used. Then it took a further 1600 hours of testing to improve it etc. Then only in 1990 could it be usable on Rafale planes as M88-2 version.

TEI has never manufactured a complete flying turbofan to date. It is worse than being presumptuous to say that we can manufacture a better engine than F110. F110 is not the same engine that was produced in early 1980s. It has evolved in to a much more modern engine today with Blisk Fans and use additive technologies in it’s parts and presumably 4th generation single crystal turbine blades. Let us get our feet solidly on the ground first. Let us fly TF6000. That however, doesn’t in itself prove that a day later we can make an engine of F110 caliber.
Proof of the pudding is in the eating. We need to manufacture the damn engine. Believing you can make it and literally making it are two different things.
TF6000 and TF35000 will have very different sized parts. They will need different engineering applications. Having built TF6000 doesn’t mean we will build TF35000 straight away. Every engine is a separate project in it’s own right.

Yes we can build a good enough engine that will power KAAN. But when is the operative word.

 

[Zafer]

What makes you think that ? Proof of the pudding is in the eating. When we will successfully complete all the required testing of the TF-35000, and deliver it, then we will be able to claim that.

F110 engine is an older design while TF35000 is a modern design made up to today's requirements. Even if we achieve 85-90% of the design performance level it is better than the F110 engine.

 

[Zafer]

Computer simulation was reinvented after 2010, things evolve faster than ever before. it is blindness not to see that things made in the last couple of decades are far superior to ones made in the decades before. Just as an example.

F110 > TIT of 1510 °C delivered 1980s
F119 > TIT of 1649 °C delivered 1997
F135 > TIT of 1980 °C delivered 2009

It is safe to assume we can pull off 1600 °C easy, in time for when you want to start building your engine. There are those who do not believe 2028 is when TF35000 makes the skies a home and those who don't. I think it will happen even earlier.

 

[Afif]

Computer simulation was reinvented after 2010, things evolve faster than ever before. it is blindness not to see that things made in the last couple of decades are far superior to ones made in the decades before. Just as an example.

F110 > TIT of 1510 °C delivered 1980s
F119 > TIT of 1649 °C delivered 1997
F135 > TIT of 1980 °C delivered 2009

Yeah, but it's not about hitting the temperature only, is it?

China Had all the computer simulations since 2010. After billions of dollars and decades of research they are only reach 4000 hours lifespan with their WS-15 in 2024 so far. While F119 delivered in 1997 has 8000+ hours lifespan.

 

[Spitfire9]

Computer simulation was reinvented after 2010, things evolve faster than ever before. it is blindness not to see that things made in the last couple of decades are far superior to ones made in the decades before. Just as an example.

F110 > TIT of 1510 °C delivered 1980s
F119 > TIT of 1649 °C delivered 1997
F135 > TIT of 1980 °C delivered 2009

It is safe to assume we can pull off 1600 °C easy, in time for when you want to start building your engine. There are those who do not believe 2028 is when TF35000 makes the skies a home and those who don't. I think it will happen even earlier.

While it is good to be positive, I would be very surprised if the TF35000 were built, ground-tested and tested in a flying testbed KAAN in 2028.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember that it took a long time for TF6000 to have its first run after assembly was reported to be complete. Any idea why, should you have an idea?

 

[TR_123456]

We made the TS1400 blades and the engine is ripe for mass production
We did the first run with the TF6000/TF10000 blades
We started making test parts for the upcoming TF350000 Kaan engine

What comes next in this sequence of milestones is the completion of making the parts required for the TF35000 engine to run which includes high end turbine blades. We are probably no further away than just one year before we complete building the engine.

While there is no insider information in this prediction it is the natural flow of events one can expect.

Tövbe tövbe.

 

[TR_123456]

I am mainly interested in Russian engines.

Time to change it to Western,no?
Ever done a comparison?
See the difference first.

 

[Rodeo]

We made the TS1400 blades and the engine is ripe for mass production
We did the first run with the TF6000/TF10000 blades
We started making test parts for the upcoming TF350000 Kaan engine

What comes next in this sequence of milestones is the completion of making the parts required for the TF35000 engine to run which includes high end turbine blades. We are probably no further away than just one year before we complete building the engine.

While there is no insider information in this prediction it is the natural flow of events one can expect.

So much professed superiority and presumptions but we don't even have a single turbine engine in operation today.

Let's get this straight. We all yearn for the same thing. The fate of KAAN and the nation's independence is contingent on this engine. Any dose of optimism or pessimism does not call into question of someone's loyalty or his enthusiasm.

The ability of producing blisks or single-crystal superalloys do not automatically translate to design and production capability of a complete large 5th gen turbofan engine. Unlike some other countries, to solve a single problem we need to solve 100 other problems due to our lack of infrastructure and know-how.

All these problems and the ones we haven't faced yet will be solved if the money and the will is there. However, the crux of the matter is the timeframe.

Just one last note, a prototype and a deliverable product are two vastly different things. This is especially true for the non-legacy players like us.

We started making test parts for the upcoming TF350000 Kaan engine

You have claimed this before and have failed to show a source. May I ask again? Can you please provide a source for it unless you happen to be in the inner circles and came by this information through your own connections?

https://motor.ssb.gov.tr/motor/Documents/GazTurbinliMotorYolHaritasi.pdf

 

[No Name]

Has anyone heard anything new about the TF6000/TF10000 after its first ignition? With out know anything about how the TF6000/TF10000 engine is coming along we can't say anything about the future KAAN engine.

I don't know.
I am mainly interested in Russian engines. They have been working on two aircraft engines for a long time.
Russian engineers have enormous experience, but they have not yet achieved success. And they work on them for 10-15 years.

The problem with Russia is that after the fall of the soviet union, the skilled workforce was not only divided but also the skills of the said workforce were left to decay over the next 20 years. First, it was the economic trouble of the 90s; then it was the corruption of Putin's regime that slowly rotted away the enormous experience that the Russian aerospace industry had.

Now, Russia is in a difficult situation with the oligarchs stealing money from the state but not actually providing anything in return while more, and more experience Russian engineers either retire or die out.

 

[Zafer]

While it is good to be positive, I would be very surprised if the TF35000 were built, ground-tested and tested in a flying testbed KAAN in 2028.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember that it took a long time for TF6000 to have its first run after assembly was reported to be complete. Any idea why, should you have an idea?

You probably were surprised with Kaan flying too.
It is okay to take your time with a first engine, the platforms the engine is meant to power are already flying with another engine after all, why bother rushing it. It is okay to make the TF10000 stay in the pipeline for as much as you want as the planes it will power are not the backbones of the air force for some time to come.

However with the waters boiling in the world you don't want to be sloppy with making your main fighter come to life, also considering the market opportunities for such a fighter. The components that would presumably be last to be ready for deployment are the power turbine blades. All other parts and processes are relatively easier to achieve. It may take a few tries before the engine learns to fly but the sooner you try the sooner you get there.

 

[Zafer]

So much professed superiority and presumptions but we don't even have a single turbine engine in operation today.

Let's get this straight. We all yearn for the same thing. The fate of KAAN and the nation's independence is contingent on this engine. Any dose of optimism or pessimism does not call into question of someone's loyalty or his enthusiasm.

The ability of producing blisks or single-crystal superalloys do not automatically translate to design and production capability of a complete large 5th gen turbofan engine. Unlike some other countries, to solve a single problem we need to solve 100 other problems due to our lack of infrastructure and know-how.

All these problems and the ones we haven't faced yet will be solved if the money and the will is there. However, the crux of the matter is the timeframe.

Just one last note, a prototype and deliverable product are two vastly different things. This is especially true for the non-legacy players like us.


You have claimed this before and have failed to show a source. May I ask again? Can you please provide a source for it unless you happen to be in the inner circles and came by this information through your own connections.

https://motor.ssb.gov.tr/motor/Documents/GazTurbinliMotorYolHaritasi.pdf

There was news again recently about the materials to be also used in the making of the Kaan engine being trialed. I said test parts. Even there is no news pointers it is safe to think there must be parts making trials if not making the actual parts to be used. It is not much different making the actual part or testing the processes on trial parts. When the design of the engine is frozen they would start making the actual parts of which we are in the dark yet. There must be lots and lots of partial assembly trials before the running of the engine as a whole.

 

[duveil]

You probably were surprised with Kaan flying too.
It is okay to take your time with a first engine, the platforms the engine is meant to power are already flying with another engine after all, why bother rushing it. It is okay to make the TF10000 stay in the pipeline for as much as you want as the planes it will power are not the backbones of the air force for some time to come.

However with the waters boiling in the world you don't want to be sloppy with making your main fighter come to life, also considering the market opportunities for such a fighter. The components that would presumably be last to be ready for deployment are the power turbine blades. All other parts and processes are relatively easier to achieve. It may take a few tries before the engine learns to fly but the sooner you try the sooner you get there.

Nobody is suprised by Kaan's flying. Do you think TF35000 will be built, ground-tested and tested in a flying testbed KAAN in 2028 ?

 

[Zafer]

Nobody is suprised by Kaan's flying. Do you think TF35000 will be built, ground-tested and tested in a flying testbed KAAN in 2028 ?

Yes, but speak for yourself when saying not surprized.