TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[TR_123456]

Technologically, the West is, of course, superior to Russia. The Russians themselves admit this.
But I’m interested in keeping an eye on SU 57 and KAAN.
I won’t hide it – I keep thinking: will we be able to have a full-fledged 5th generation production aircraft before the Russians?

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Our only deficit is the engine.
F-110 is not good enough for a 5th gen fighter jet,all Russian engines are worse.
I still have hope for a RR solution.

 

[TR_123456]

I want to say hi first. I have been following this forum for a long time. I read a lot from what you have written but I just registered to the forum. Actually I was not going to register until summer but I couldn't hold myself back from the thing I'll tell you. AFAIK, an engine factory is currently being established for Kaan.

For what engine,building a factory is easy?
Welcome to the forum.

 

[Turkic]

For what engine

I meant TF-35000/40000

building a factory is easy?

Yes but a factory being established means we will not wait for a factory after design of the engine is ready. Also if factory is being established, we may be close to the date.

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks, nice to meet you all

 

[boredaf]

Individual part production expertise, is not a sign of capability of a complete turbofan engine manufacturing.
An accomplished engine manufacturer like SNECMA took years before M88-1 engine can be flown. In 1983 the engine project was started. In 1986 the plane was ready to house an engine; but no flyable engine. So GEF404 were used. Then it took a further 1600 hours of testing to improve it etc. Then only in 1990 could it be usable on Rafale planes as M88-2 version.

TEI has never manufactured a complete flying turbofan to date. It is worse than being presumptuous to say that we can manufacture a better engine than F110. F110 is not the same engine that was produced in early 1980s. It has evolved in to a much more modern engine today with Blisk Fans and use additive technologies in it’s parts and presumably 4th generation single crystal turbine blades. Let us get our feet solidly on the ground first. Let us fly TF6000. That however, doesn’t in itself prove that a day later we can make an engine of F110 caliber.
Proof of the pudding is in the eating. We need to manufacture the damn engine. Believing you can make it and literally making it are two different things.
TF6000 and TF35000 will have very different sized parts. They will need different engineering applications. Having built TF6000 doesn’t mean we will build TF35000 straight away. Every engine is a separate project in it’s own right.

Yes we can build a good enough engine that will power KAAN. But when is the operative word.

A comment as grounded as this one is seriously a breath of fresh air. And your example isn't the only one, just take a look at how long it took for P&W to develop F135 even though they used F119 as a starting point.

This type of cheat beating and exaggeration makes any setback look worse than it is, especially when it comes from people in charge. I would much rather we make conservative estimates and prepare contingency plans in case something goes wrong then be happy when something exceeds our estimations.

 

[Yasar_TR]

May I remind all our members that it is our number one duty not to make any unsubstantiated claims. This has nothing to do with just the forum rules. But more to do with where we stand apart from other forums; whereby what is discussed here is correct, relevant and substantiated. Especially on matters that are most relevant to the core of this forum. Namely “defence matters”. Of course all members are free to think in any way they want. But it is important to support claims with valid sources.

Over the last few years many members have made positive and negative claims about TFX/Now KAAN. Specifically with respect to it first being built and secondly it achieving flight. Everyone to the best of their ability have substantiated their claims, with one form or another, through providing sources.
Now that the KAAN has taken to the air, our next challenge is achieving serial production. First with US engines. Namely F110GE129D.
This engine, contrary to some beliefs, is a “modern” engine through and through. As explained above it uses many technologies that are found in most modern engines. Apart from the size, shape and some internal design aspects, the engine is nothing like the 1980’s engine.
The most modern workhorse of the US airforce, F15EX uses two of these very same engines.
F110 without afterburners with some redesigning of certain parts like vanes etc and airflow parameters, to make it stealthy, under the code of F118, is being used in the state of the art B2 Stealth Bomber. So by all means this is not an ancient engine as some may want to portray here.
It is just underpowered for our KAAN. Also it’s stealthy characteristics doesn’t match KAAN’s requirements.
That is why we want TF35K.
Can we make it? Logic dictates that we should be able to.
Can we make it in time? This is where anybody claiming it can be, needs to provide solid substantiated evidence.

 

[duveil]

Yes, but speak for yourself when saying not surprized.

Ok .you right. I am not suprised. So do you mind anwering my question?

 

[Zafer]

Ok .you right. I am not suprised. So do you mind anwering my question?

I already said "yes", meaning I do believe Kaan's engine will be flying on Kaan in 2028.

 

[Huelague]

Yeah, but it's not about hitting the temperature only, is it?

China Had all the computer simulations since 2010. After billions of dollars and decades of research they are only reach 4000 hours lifespan with their WS-15 in 2024 so far. While F119 delivered in 1997 has 8000+ hours lifespan.

And what China can not achieved Türkiye can never?

 

[Turkic]

May I remind all our members that it is our number one duty not to make any unsubstantiated claims.

I guess this reminding was for me considering I just made an unsubstantiated claim. All I can say is I'm Fulya Öztürk's liar. You may say journalists are unreliable but I think Fulya is pretty thrustworthy.

 

[Oublious]

Yeah, but it's not about hitting the temperature only, is it?

China Had all the computer simulations since 2010. After billions of dollars and decades of research they are only reach 4000 hours lifespan with their WS-15 in 2024 so far. While F119 delivered in 1997 has 8000+ hours lifespan.

thats not a argument but a comparision, so what is the reason why it wont work?

 

[YeşilVatan]

idk whay are you guys arguing so hard about it. What is the gain? It doesn't even contribute information. It just goes "it will happen" "no it will not". I hope it happens, I really, really do. And maybe it will. For now just be watchful for the news.

For what it's worth, I think we can achieve 2 fleets of somewhat stealthy 'F-15's in 2030, unless a serious problem occurs. And I also think the most problematic part is the political and talent management aspect, not the technical issues or even funding.

 

[Afif]

And what China can not achieved Türkiye can never?

What?

thats not a argument but a comparision, so what is the reason why it wont work?

Yes, it is a comparison to point out that this is not as easy as @Zafer saying. Advanced computers sims doesn't solve all the problems and difficulties.

 

[Heartbang]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember that it took a long time for TF6000 to have its first run after assembly was reported to be complete. Any idea why, should you have an idea?

The first run of the TF6K was delayed due to the fact that all the auxiliary equipment to be used in the prototype got sanctioned by the Western companies who were obligated to deliver them. All of those had to be indigenized.
Even with that hiccup, the delay was only a couple of months.

 

[Zafer]

idk whay are you guys arguing so hard about it. What is the gain? It doesn't even contribute information. It just goes "it will happen" "no it will not". I hope it happens, I really, really do. And maybe it will. For now just be watchful for the news.

For what it's worth, I think we can achieve 2 fleets of somewhat stealthy 'F-15's in 2030, unless a serious problem occurs. And I also think the most problematic part is the political and talent management aspect, not the technical issues or even funding.

If it wasn't for the fervent discussion we wouldn't have a new member among us today and we wouldn't hear what news he had to say, like the Kaan engine factory, right.

 

[Zafer]

Yes, it is a comparison to point out that this is not as easy as @Zafer saying. Advanced computers sims doesn't solve all the problems and difficulties.

I have to admit that some of the problems we need to solve as humans and not expect machines to solve them for us. We don't need so many flight hours on the initial incarnation of the TF35k engine, we just need it to be acceptably good like above 2000 hours and it will be a good start.

Some members here probably believe that Americans set foot on the Moon but they can't believe Turks are setting foot on the fighter engine space.

 

[Huelague]

What

The engine.

 

[dBSPL]

We have a handful of good journalists/editors, one or two print and digital magazines, a few online media, and of course a few forums like defencehub, trmilitary, etc. Maybe one or two youtube channels, maybe not... And that's all there is. News ethics, news responsibility and credibility are limited in this circle. Of course, for those who want to learn more deeply, expert comments are also within this area. Unfortunately, when you go beyond this scale, it is a garbage dump. The state of the defense industry media in Turkiye, both in the mainstream media and in the opposition media, is deplorable. There are defense channels with tens of thousands of subscribers on youtube, but there is nothing but imbecilic content and fairy tales. Or there are those who are outright FETÖ apparatuses. Separate parenthesis, there are also ex-soldiers and intelligence officers, mostly Eurasianists, who go around channel after channel with a stick in their hands... These are also a separate case...

For me, the most reliable source is the information that comes from people I know here, whose ethical values I believe in, whose researcher personality I trust, and who are familiar with the details of the phenomenon/project under discussion, sharing the information they have obtained through their efforts and filtering it through their own filters. Not someone who pontificates with a stick on X channel in the mainstream media.

 

[2033]

Our only deficit is the engine.
F-110 is not good enough for a 5th gen fighter jet,all Russian engines are worse.
I still have hope for a RR solution.

There is still no contract signed with the US for the F110 engine. Do you see a risk?

 

[TR_123456]

There is still no contract signed with the US for the F110 engine. Do you see a risk?

No,they know they can only delay so they wont take the risk of alienating our country.
Roles have changed.

 

[Nilgiri]

We have a handful of good journalists/editors, one or two print and digital magazines, a few online media, and of course a few forums like defencehub, trmilitary, etc. Maybe one or two youtube channels, maybe not... And that's all there is. News ethics, news responsibility and credibility are limited in this circle. Of course, for those who want to learn more deeply, expert comments are also within this area. Unfortunately, when you go beyond this scale, it is a garbage dump. The state of the defense industry media in Turkiye, both in the mainstream media and in the opposition media, is deplorable. There are defense channels with tens of thousands of subscribers on youtube, but there is nothing but imbecilic content and fairy tales. Or there are those who are outright FETÖ apparatuses. Separate parenthesis, there are also ex-soldiers and intelligence officers, mostly Eurasianists, who go around channel after channel with a stick in their hands... These are also a separate case...

For me, the most reliable source is the information that comes from people I know here, whose ethical values I believe in, whose researcher personality I trust, and who are familiar with the details of the phenomenon/project under discussion, sharing the information they have obtained through their efforts and filtering it through their own filters. Not someone who pontificates with a stick on X channel in the mainstream media.

Yup exactly.

There is unmatched qualitative distillation that occurs in this forum specifically in its way. I have not seen it anywhere else online as places easily go for quantity trolling and other such things to pump up volume with fluff and any good quality folks present cant really hear themselves think in end or get distracted/wasted in those things.

To get quality you need to have very specific well curated setting.....only then a good ladder of discussion and analysis can be setup and climbed over time.