TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Zafer]

2023 time-frame for major milestones of several large military projects has little to do with internal politics but more to do with taking this opportunity to push the Turkish national industry towards greater self reliance. It is a good anchor to push the industry forward. For the people the state of the economy has a lot more effect.

Be it 2023 or a few years later Turkish people already have confidence that national projects will bear fruit from what they see with what has already been achieved.

 

[Lonewolf]

Tbh you have no right to criticize a company regarding release dates. If the project doesn't make it on time then you can come here and critizise. Turkey has enough of ("know it alls") just like you so don't "bark" about the release dates. Just because India failed the Tejas doesn't mean Turkey will.

Actually tai didn't had any program for fighter jet before hurjet , did they ?

Criticism would be i making comments on industrial capability of tai on hurjet and tfx , and how they are different projects from all unmanned system .

And genius , give me ten project and their timeline to say anything about 'barking' , otherwise keep your fanboy slang to yourself

 

[Lonewolf]

Let me share with you what our official timelines are aimed at. You can comment on their feasibility or optimism level, but at least I'm sharing it so you can see that our works also depends on a certain plan. For example, there is a delay of 1 year in Hürjet because of engine issues, but TfX is proceeding on the route.

Hürjet
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TfX
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Exactly ,you support my point , look at tfx timeline , why there is a gap of 3 years from roll out to ff , it means that ff is scheduled based on some other reasons , maybe power projection , etc (that's not my concern ) .

Similar for hurjet , if roll out means a aircraft without capability to fly is not actually a proper rollout as jet will continue its manufacturing phase after that .

 

[Zafer]

Actually tai didn't had any program for fighter jet before hurjet , did they ?

Criticism would be i making comments on industrial capability of tai on hurjet and tfx , and how they are different projects from all unmanned system .

And genius , give me ten project and their timeline to say anything about 'barking' , otherwise keep your fanboy slang to yourself

TAI assembled F16 Fighting Falcons for Turkey and Egypt.
TAI also have the capability to upgrade F16s.

 

[Indos]

Exactly ,you support my point , look at tfx timeline , why there is a gap of 3 years from roll out to ff , it means that ff is scheduled based on some other reasons , maybe power projection , etc (that's not my concern ) .

Similar for hurjet , if roll out means a aircraft without capability to fly is not actually a proper rollout as jet will continue its manufacturing phase after that .

Nope, the real prototype is Block 0. The roll out is basically a Mock Up (final mock up). How come roll out comes first before CDR is reached.

CDR is in 2024 and Block 0 (Real prototype) roll out is in 2025. Then first flight will be conducted in the next year.

If we see KF21/IFX time frame so it has CDR in 2019 September and first prototype roll out in 2021 April, then first flight is planned to be conducted in 2022 July.

 

[Lonewolf]

Nope, the real prototype is Block 0. The roll out is basically a Mock Up (final mock up). How come roll out comes first before CDR is reached.

CDR is in 2024 and Block 0 (Real prototype) roll out is in 2025. Then first flight will be conducted in the next year.

If we see KF21/IFX time frame so it has CDR in 2019 September and first prototype roll out in 2021 April, then first flight is planned to be conducted in 2022 July.

I said the same thing , roll out in while world means roll out of prototype , not roll out of mock up , but in case of turkey it is a mock up for tfx , and maybe same for hurjet ,as manufacturing has not begin yet

 

[Zafer]

I said the same thing , roll out in while world means roll out of prototype , not roll out of mock up , but in case of turkey it is a mock up for tfx , and maybe same for hurjet ,as manufacturing has not begin yet

The plane will roll out with the power of its installed engines.

 

[Lonewolf]

TAI assembled F16 Fighting Falcons for Turkey and Egypt.
TAI also have the capability to upgrade F16s.

Assembly is basically a screw driver job , as we say in india .

We manufacture almost whole of su 30 mki in india from raw material and most components are manufactured in india , yet ut won't prepare us for amca ,as doing something indigenous is totally different .

Assembly can give you experience to manufacture those jet in good number but can't help you to create a rnd base .

You need new gen actuator , mission computer , radar based on GaN , wide band jammers , and all these systems should be based on GaN , then eots , das are a big hurdle .

Let me give you a example , in india , we have our amca program .

Ff was planned for 2023 but was delayed due to project complexity .

As we have seen , you will pass through same phases of development like any other country .

You will see basic tech first like ram coatings , then their advanced variant .

Ew module will be tough job as not only you have to create jammer ,you need to integrate them with digital rwr , decoys , maws ,lwr .
Then you need a huge database and high speed processing power to access and classify threats .

Radar need to have wide band capability so that it can perform shared aperture role somewhat .

We have our basic uttam radar , it's good system , compete well on some tested parameters with elta elm 2052 , but for amca we need a new gen radar with GaN module ,work is being done on that but still it need 3-4 years .


Then comes some tech like body axis cone vivaldi etc , which can't be achieved in this limited time , india took years to develop these building blocks .

We developed a titanium superalloys , some peizeoelectric self healing material , etc for application in amca , these systems make fighter more maintenance friendly ,but research money expenditure is humongous , nobody have any idea except drdo and gov that how much have been spent .

Next come testbed aircraft ,which is generally a passenger plane modified for testing , we acquired it this year only and integration has started ,but i don't think turkey hace been on that stage yet .

So you need lot of time ,money and patience in these projects and delay are quite possible , so over optimistic views need to be calmed down

 

[Lonewolf]

The plane will roll out with the power of its installed engines.

What about avionics , ground certification of engine .

It us not just adding engine ,but it should be capable of running all system onboard so that after roll out testing can be done ,and jet don't go for manufacturing phase again

 

[Zafer]

What about avionics , ground certification of engine .

It us not just adding engine ,but it should be capable of running all system onboard so that after roll out testing can be done ,and jet don't go for manufacturing phase again

It will be a GE engine, not a domestic one.

We have advancements and results in all fields related to the TFX development.
The only loose end is the domestic engine which can take longer to develop than we think as the technology for it need to be developed in house. However we do have agreements with Ukraine and possibly other countries for help for the development of the engine. Our TEI has experience developing all parts of an engine but the turbine blades. We can go for a lesser engine with an older tech turbine blades producing lesser power and upgrade to a better tech as we go. It is not easy to add up all the development effort timelines and come up with a precise completion date for the end product but the end product specification is not set on stone. We will get 4++ plane first before we get a 5 gen so intermediate state products are acceptable. It all depends on how much effort you put into working towards it and we are sparing no efforts as the time is ripe for the Turkish industry to undertake such an endeavor and our leadership has no mercy to failures.

 

[Raptor]

So Turkey plans to roll out tfx by 2023 and it would be exactly 5th gen aircraft with IWB?

 

[Wanasepi]

Assembly is basically a screw driver job , as we say in india .

We manufacture almost whole of su 30 mki in india from raw material and most components are manufactured in india , yet ut won't prepare us for amca ,as doing something indigenous is totally different .

Assembly can give you experience to manufacture those jet in good number but can't help you to create a rnd base .

You need new gen actuator , mission computer , radar based on GaN , wide band jammers , and all these systems should be based on GaN , then eots , das are a big hurdle .

Let me give you a example , in india , we have our amca program .

Ff was planned for 2023 but was delayed due to project complexity .

As we have seen , you will pass through same phases of development like any other country .

You will see basic tech first like ram coatings , then their advanced variant .

Ew module will be tough job as not only you have to create jammer ,you need to integrate them with digital rwr , decoys , maws ,lwr .
Then you need a huge database and high speed processing power to access and classify threats .

Radar need to have wide band capability so that it can perform shared aperture role somewhat .

We have our basic uttam radar , it's good system , compete well on some tested parameters with elta elm 2052 , but for amca we need a new gen radar with GaN module ,work is being done on that but still it need 3-4 years .


Then comes some tech like body axis cone vivaldi etc , which can't be achieved in this limited time , india took years to develop these building blocks .

We developed a titanium superalloys , some peizeoelectric self healing material , etc for application in amca , these systems make fighter more maintenance friendly ,but research money expenditure is humongous , nobody have any idea except drdo and gov that how much have been spent .

Next come testbed aircraft ,which is generally a passenger plane modified for testing , we acquired it this year only and integration has started ,but i don't think turkey hace been on that stage yet .

So you need lot of time ,money and patience in these projects and delay are quite possible , so over optimistic views need to be calmed down

Maybe you need to read all thread on the turkish section from page 1 to the last, then come back here....

 

[Lonewolf]

Maybe you need to read all thread on the turkish section from page 1 to the last, then come back here....

Okay , as you wish , but i don't have time , can you show me turkish airborne aesa and it's capability like it's operating frequency band , it's trm module , and materials used in trm , GaN or GaAs .

What's status of your eots and DAS

 

[kenny]

Okay , as you wish , but i don't have time , can you show me turkish airborne aesa and it's capability like it's operating frequency band , it's trm module , and materials used in trm , GaN or GaAs .

What's status of your eots and DAS

Why don't you learn it yourself? Quickly read and learn about this topic from cover to cover!

 

[Kilic93]

Assembly is basically a screw driver job , as we say in india .

We manufacture almost whole of su 30 mki in india from raw material and most components are manufactured in india , yet ut won't prepare us for amca ,as doing something indigenous is totally different .

Assembly can give you experience to manufacture those jet in good number but can't help you to create a rnd base .

You need new gen actuator , mission computer , radar based on GaN , wide band jammers , and all these systems should be based on GaN , then eots , das are a big hurdle .

Let me give you a example , in india , we have our amca program .

Ff was planned for 2023 but was delayed due to project complexity .

As we have seen , you will pass through same phases of development like any other country .

You will see basic tech first like ram coatings , then their advanced variant .

Ew module will be tough job as not only you have to create jammer ,you need to integrate them with digital rwr , decoys , maws ,lwr .
Then you need a huge database and high speed processing power to access and classify threats .

Radar need to have wide band capability so that it can perform shared aperture role somewhat .

We have our basic uttam radar , it's good system , compete well on some tested parameters with elta elm 2052 , but for amca we need a new gen radar with GaN module ,work is being done on that but still it need 3-4 years .


Then comes some tech like body axis cone vivaldi etc , which can't be achieved in this limited time , india took years to develop these building blocks .

We developed a titanium superalloys , some peizeoelectric self healing material , etc for application in amca , these systems make fighter more maintenance friendly ,but research money expenditure is humongous , nobody have any idea except drdo and gov that how much have been spent .

Next come testbed aircraft ,which is generally a passenger plane modified for testing , we acquired it this year only and integration has started ,but i don't think turkey hace been on that stage yet .

So you need lot of time ,money and patience in these projects and delay are quite possible , so over optimistic views need to be calmed down

Stop bringing up India. Turkey is not India. Its true India went through hard stages with its aviation tech but that's India, we're talking about Turkey here.

 

[Tornadoss]

So Turkey plans to roll out tfx by 2023 and it would be exactly 5th gen aircraft with IWB?

It's not TFX but Hurjet that will be rolled out in 2023.

 

[Lonewolf]

Stop bringing up India. Turkey is not India. Its true India went through hard stages with its aviation tech but that's India, we're talking about Turkey here.

And turkey is vulcan planet right ?

Engine tech is one the system ,no one wants to share engine tech with any other nation ,so easily , maybe Ukraine might help in co development but they aren't best in game .

And looking at tfx design ,that burd is quite sleek imo (plus point ) , so it can't afford a bulky engine like something russian type (like Ukrainian ) , so you need top notch products in likes of m88 ,ej200 etc .

It will take time , as happened with very nation who tried the feat , i am not criticizing , but sometimes honest opinions looks like criticism

 

[Profchaos]

And turkey is vulcan planet right ?

Engine tech is one the system ,no one wants to share engine tech with any other nation ,so easily , maybe Ukraine might help in co development but they aren't best in game .

And looking at tfx design ,that burd is quite sleek imo (plus point ) , so it can't afford a bulky engine like something russian type (like Ukrainian ) , so you need top notch products in likes of m88 ,ej200 etc .

It will take time , as happened with very nation who tried the feat , i am not criticizing , but sometimes honest opinions looks like criticism

The problem is you dont know sh*t about the development phases of the tf-x and people recommended to you that you should read the tread first than you can talk about it.
Countless companies are currently working on this project and they did a lot of stuff.even though i personally think that there will be some small delays i can guarantee you except the engine problem everything will be solved easily. So before making any further baseless claims just take your time and read the thread or please just ignore it.

 

[TheInsider]

So Turkey plans to roll out tfx by 2023 and it would be exactly 5th gen aircraft with IWB?

Yes. Other than the initial engine, especially stealth and sensor-wise it will be a fully 5th gen fighter. We will use 29000 lbf F110 engines for prototypes and switch to Turkish engines around 2030. Up to now, Turkish turbine engine efforts go on schedule but there is a long time ahead.

m88 is not a top product. French are behind Anglo-Saxons in turbine engines.

 

[Kilic93]

And turkey is vulcan planet right ?

Engine tech is one the system ,no one wants to share engine tech with any other nation ,so easily , maybe Ukraine might help in co development but they aren't best in game .

And looking at tfx design ,that burd is quite sleek imo (plus point ) , so it can't afford a bulky engine like something russian type (like Ukrainian ) , so you need top notch products in likes of m88 ,ej200 etc .

It will take time , as happened with very nation who tried the feat , i am not criticizing , but sometimes honest opinions looks like criticism

Turkeys getting help from BAE systems, so you're saying BAE technicians are clueless?