TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Oublious]

The British government didn’t do such a thing. It was a privat company Baykar was buying parts from. Private companies can decide who they sell and who they don’t sell to. The British government can’t dictate it. There are no sanctions or Embargos by the British government against Turkey. Quite the contrary, Britain has been one of Turkey’s biggest supporters behind closed doors for a long time now. As it is aware of Turkeys importance in NATO and for Europe’s security.

Please learn to differentiate between Governments and private companies.

As an example Germany’s government has embargoed products by vetoeing the sale of military products such as tank engines.

Britain on the other hand has not done such a thing but instead of private company based on Britain has decided on its own to suspend business with Baykal another private company.

That will not change a thing, if they manage to winn the public and they demand ther goverment. Every defence cooperation will be always on a thing ice. A Private company, doesn't that say much to you? What will happen when next Karabag war breaks out? Will the British show us ther other half?

Ther is no guarantee.

 

[Yasar_TR]

But they stopped delivering parts to TB2, ok the parts are not that important. Fact is you can not trust them.

I am writing this, everybody should accept the fact RR will not give the IP rights and we will go on our self. If we accep ther terms, they will use it against us.

You are talking about a small company in suburban England that produces small civilian aircraft fuel valves that decided on its own not to supply these to Bayraktar when Armenian embassy told them that their valves were being used in active warfare. Nothing to do with RR nor with UK government.
In fact UK government and their prime minister has given explicit Directives to UK based aerospace companies “Carte-Blanche” in the TFX project.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I don't believe in the idea that the British don't like Qatar. Because Qatar is the British strategic partner. Qatar has invested $ 400 billion in the UK. The fact that 2 countries with such close ties are contrasting with each other can only be a rumor.

The problem with Qatar in TFX engine project had nothing to do with Britain liking to disliking Qatar.
RR, simply did not want a third party to have access to the engine technology they were going to release to Kale and Turkey. Qatar having 49% share in TR Motor meant this could not be achieved. The technology could leak through to third parties.

 

[Oublious]

You are talking about a small company in suburban England that produces small civilian aircraft fuel valves that decided on its own not to supply these to Bayraktar when Armenian embassy told them that their valves were being used in active warfare. Nothing to do with RR nor with UK government.
In fact UK government and their prime minister has given explicit Directives to UK based aerospace companies “Carte-Blanche” in the TFX project.

I am just looking the whole picture, you saw a simple valve that was used in a war made public opinion in UK.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I am just looking the whole picture, you saw a simple valve that was used in a war made public opinion in UK.

As you are living in Netherlands you should know that in Western world governments do not have much say over how private companies conduct their affairs. Unless they contradict the national security.
War equipment manufacturers and “civilian” aviation parts manufacturers are governed by different rules too. Civilian parts, as the name suggest can not be used in war machines.
There is no picture here to look at in reality. No one apart from Turkish media and Armenians made news of this so-called “embargo”.

 

[Oublious]

As you are living in Netherlands you should know that in Western world governments do not have much say over how private companies conduct their affairs. Unless they contradict their national security.
War equipment manufacturers and “civilian” aviation parts manufacturers are governed by different rules too. Civilian parts, as the name suggest can not be used in war machines.
There is no picture here to look at in reality. No one apart from Turkish media and Armenians made news of this so-called “embargo”.

Well, that was a private company. Imagine the pressure get to high and that govermetn decide to stop the delivering. I will give you example of Dutch goverment.

Vraag 6 Bent u bereid er bij de bondgenoten op aan te dringen af te zien van deze importen uit Turkije vanwege de mensenrechtensituatie en de interventies in Syrië? Zo nee, waarom niet?


Directie Veiligheidsbeleid Onze Referentie BZDOC-1197281232-26 Antwoord Nee. Nederland ziet de controle op en de beperking van de uitvoer van militaire goederen naar Turkije als de meest effectieve manier om zorgen over inzet van militaire goederen bij schendingen van mensenrechten of de Turkse operatie in Syrië te adresseren. Daarnaast worden deze aspecten veelvuldig ter sprake gebracht in bilaterale contacten. Een EU-brede beperking van de invoer van militaire goederen uit Turkije is niet realistisch. Nederland heeft herhaaldelijk gepleit voor een embargo op de uitvoer van militaire goederen naar Turkije naar aanleiding van de Turkse interventie in Syrië. Hiervoor was geen draagvlak. Een pleidooi voor een importverbod – dat minder effectief is in het tegengaan van de Turkse activiteiten in Syrië – heeft daarmee geen realistische kans van slagen. De EU heeft met de maatregelen op de export van militaire goederen naar Turkije in oktober 2019 een duidelijk en effectief signaal afgegeven richting Turkije.


Member of parlement asks, are you ready to insist our allies for Ambargo against Turkey? And the goverment tells that they al ready tried but ther was no support. This was in 2020.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/binaries/rijksoverheid/documenten/kamerstukken/2020/04/20/beantwoording-kamervragen-over-wapenimport-uit-turkije/beantwoording-vragen-over-wapenimporten-uit-turkije.pdf

It depends how we as country will go, in the end when we hit British nerve they will do the same. Ther is no differences, for now 'kopruyu gecene kadar ayi'ya dayi diyelim'.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Well, that was a private company. Imagine the pressure get to high and that govermetn decide to stop the delivering. I will give you example of Dutch goverment.

Vraag 6 Bent u bereid er bij de bondgenoten op aan te dringen af te zien van deze importen uit Turkije vanwege de mensenrechtensituatie en de interventies in Syrië? Zo nee, waarom niet?


Directie Veiligheidsbeleid Onze Referentie BZDOC-1197281232-26 Antwoord Nee. Nederland ziet de controle op en de beperking van de uitvoer van militaire goederen naar Turkije als de meest effectieve manier om zorgen over inzet van militaire goederen bij schendingen van mensenrechten of de Turkse operatie in Syrië te adresseren. Daarnaast worden deze aspecten veelvuldig ter sprake gebracht in bilaterale contacten. Een EU-brede beperking van de invoer van militaire goederen uit Turkije is niet realistisch. Nederland heeft herhaaldelijk gepleit voor een embargo op de uitvoer van militaire goederen naar Turkije naar aanleiding van de Turkse interventie in Syrië. Hiervoor was geen draagvlak. Een pleidooi voor een importverbod – dat minder effectief is in het tegengaan van de Turkse activiteiten in Syrië – heeft daarmee geen realistische kans van slagen. De EU heeft met de maatregelen op de export van militaire goederen naar Turkije in oktober 2019 een duidelijk en effectief signaal afgegeven richting Turkije.


Member of parlement asks, are you ready to insist our allies for Ambargo against Turkey? And the goverment tells that they al ready tried but ther was no support. This was in 2020.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/binaries/rijksoverheid/documenten/kamerstukken/2020/04/20/beantwoording-kamervragen-over-wapenimport-uit-turkije/beantwoording-vragen-over-wapenimporten-uit-turkije.pdf

It depends how we as country will go, in the end when we hit British nerve they will do the same. Ther is no differences, for now 'kopruyu gecene kadar ayi'ya dayi diyelim'.

That is double Dutch to me. But I know that Netherlands is no friend of this Turkish administration. That is a known fact. In fact they sing from the same hymn sheet of the French.
But when it comes to UK; Irrespective of the current Turkish administration’s shortcomings, the British government has been a staunch supporter of Turkey in general. They see Turkey as a key ally, militarily and economically. Especially after Brexit. So they will not rock the boat unless we do it ourselves.
But it has to be remembered that there are no clear cut friends or enemies in international politics. But interests that either coincides or conflicts.

 

[Indos]

UK to help Japan develop engine for F-X fighter

Britain and Japan are teaming up to develop the engine for the new Japanese F-X stealth fighter.

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Rolls Royce helping Japan build a jet engine for their FX fighter, in collaboration with Japan’s giant IHI corporation.
If Japan, with all it’s advanced technology and technical know-how, can be humble enough to accept and take help from Rolls Royce, why can’t we?
We would have saved so much time and headache if we had gone along with RR route to start with. It still is not too late. I hope that for the good of the project our guys eat a bit of humble-pie and accept a collaboration like the Japanese have done for our TFX engine.

View attachment 25011

I think the reason of why Kale and RR proposal is rejected to build jet engine for TFX is because ambitious target by Erdogan to really manufacture the turbo jet.

RR and Kale partnership may not give Erdogan satisfaction since I suspect RR will not give critical technology and some critical parts will be produced in RR factory in Europe instead of in Turkey.

Japan also has already had good knowledge in developing jet engine compared to Turkey, so they may think if they dont help Japan, Japan will still be able develop the engine by themselves.

 

[Philips]

I think the reason of why Kale and RR proposal is rejected to build jet engine for TFX is because ambitious target by Erdogan to really manufacture the turbo jet.

First of all it is a turbofan they are trying to develop.

RR and Kale partnership may not give Erdogan satisfaction since I suspect RR will not give critical technology and some critical parts will be produced in RR factory in Europe instead of in Turkey.

That we don't know, as we don't know the details of the negotiations. But according to DefenceTurkey, RR intended to 'collaborate' with Kale to develop an indigenous turbofan engine of which the 'intellectual property rights will entirely be possessed by Turkey and which will not be subjected to export restrictions'.

 

[Indos]

First of all it is a turbofan they are trying to develop.


That we don't know, as we don't know the details of the negotiations. But according to DefenceTurkey, RR intended to 'collaborate' with Kale to develop an indigenous turbofan engine of which the 'intellectual property rights will entirely be possessed by Turkey and which will not be subjected to export restrictions'.

We should be very critical on this Defense Turkey report, no one will give you technology as easy as like that

 

[Philips]

We should be very critical on this Defense Turkey report, no one will give you technology as easy as like that

That we don't know, as we don't know the details of the negotiations...

 

[Combat-Master]

I think the reason of why Kale and RR proposal is rejected to build jet engine for TFX is because ambitious target by Erdogan to really manufacture the turbo jet.

RR and Kale partnership may not give Erdogan satisfaction since I suspect RR will not give critical technology and some critical parts will be produced in RR factory in Europe instead of in Turkey.

Japan also has already had good knowledge in developing jet engine compared to Turkey, so they may think if they dont help Japan, Japan will still be able develop the engine by themselves.

Yes indeed. Turkey would be cut off from the critical technology that is for certain, no one is willing to part with the production of the material technologies in the combustion chamber.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

 

[Stimpy75]

.....and another comparison

 

[Spook]

Is that a smoke generator on the top of the engine? They use it for flow visualization.

 

[Siper>MMU]

View attachment 26727

Is that a smoke generator on the top of the engine? They use it for flow visualization.

It's a spin recovery parachute. In case of a flat spin, parachute opens. The tail of the plane is lifted by friction. Thus, the nose of the aircraft points towards the ground and the pilot frees the aircraft from spin.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Nice view of a monster in the making from IDEF 2021

 

[azaher77]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428011499725934599

Our Air Force Commander Gen. Hasan Küçükakyüz received information about our Space Systems and unique products, especially our project #MMU.

 

[Lool]

Either you guys want your test pilot dead or you live in fantasy .

No country in world has ever produced a fighter jet in just 6 months .

Their is no steel cutting yet , no components testing with 1:1 model , neither you have started its software part for engine integration.

If hurjet rolls out by year end ,then either it's in your dreams or you have to fly it with balloon attached .

Tfx is highly optimistic too , you will get delayed by atleast 2-3 years .

Tfx will be rolled out in 2025 -2026 and induction in 2030's .


Chill down , manned system need time .

Dont forget that TAI is getting help from BAE systems
This will speed up the development of such projects
BAE Systems is one of the most prestigious aerospace companies in the world, even more than TAI for now
I believe TAI can fulfill its deadlines using BAE's help. I was so glad when BAE decided to help TAI as they are way better than Lockheed pricks
Just wishing that hurjet rolls out in december; cant wait anymore

 

[Spook]

Let me share with you what our official fantasies are, what timelines are aimed at. You can comment on their feasibility or optimism level, but at least I'm sharing it so you can see that our works also depends on a certain plan. For example, there is a delay of 1 year in Hürjet because of engine issues, but TfX is proceeding on the route.

Hürjet
View attachment 28822


TfX
View attachment 28823

National engine first serial production variant contradicts with Block-1, follow on blocks. 15+ years development for the first variant. We have been seriously investing in advanced material, manufacturing. Design capabilities are increasing. TEI is developing bigger engines and other projects prior to MMU engine which will further increase capabilities, national talent pool. TRMOTOR team will be increasing as engine development progresses. Tubitak MAM doing advanced material research.