TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550128530641432577

 

[Cabatli_TR]

From side angle, it seems the TFX will have a large body structure unlike the mock-up that is constantly on display.

 

[MADDOG]

From side angle, it seems the TFX will have a large body structure unlike the mock-up that is constantly on display.

View attachment 46550

But she is going to be a long bird. Look at it from that way. The body should taper in eventually.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

Most modern cockpits of aircrafts

 

[TheInsider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550128530641432577

IRST in front of the cockpit and EOTS at the bottom. Both are designed with stealth radomes.

 

[Tsenal]

I hope this will have a system like DAS and not just an EOTS.

 

[MADDOG]

I hope this will have a system like DAS and not just an EOTS.

There probably will be

 

[Oublious]

I hope this will have a system like DAS and not just an EOTS.

Ther will be a sensor covering 360 degrees, in a interview with Ismail Demir told that Tubitak is working on that.

 

[Bogeyman]

TF-X's cockpit from Güntay Şimşek's instagram

View attachment 46548

It is missing the cockpit. The architecture is still not finalized. Many things will change until the critical design review.

 

[Windchime]

Here source eat this and shut up. He literally says 1500-1800 degrees kelvin. Tubitak's director mentioned 1400 degrees Celcius but Tubitak gives that value for the blades they produced and delivered before TEI treated the blades with their own processes.

By the way, STG 1 means stage 1 power turbine, and STG 2 means stage 2
Stage 1 is where those little dent cooling channels are needed because stage 2 has a lower temperature so those are not needed. And he mentions ceramic thermal barrier coating and new more advanced coatings are being studied. There is enough evidence that current SX blades will be enough up to 1600 degrees Celcius.

Just like how @Nilgiri or @Yasar and others have pointed out, things are not that simple. Also, context is important when you quote or cite external sources. In the video you've linked, Mahmut Akşit says that the (single crystal turbine blades) could potentially withstand temperatures of 1500K, even up to 1800K if you apply all the necessary measures (I'm not native Turkish so I've understood that wrongly, but that's what I've found by translating it). That is the important context here. As he states, those "necessary measures" range from more advanced ceramic coatings to more advanced cooling channels. You keep insisting :

current single crystal blades will (not) have any problems up to ~1600 degrees celsius when used in a turbofan engine.

but it's not simple to just scale things up and hope for it to work. You mention "better cooling channels" just like what Akşit mentions, but when a turbine blade has a different cooling channel design, that makes it a fundamentally different turbine blade in the first place. It's not something casual as just get an existing design and drill some holes on it, no. For instance, depending on who you ask, it took the leading edge industries a decade or two to get to film cooling designs from simple internal cooling designs. Now I'm not saying that it's gonna take that long for Türkiye since you guys are playing a catch up, but that draws an understandable picture that it's not a simple matter.

Also you insist that both STG 1 and STG 2 blades don't have internal cooling channels and I tend to agree with you about STG 2 blades but with publicly revealed images of STG 1, it's hard to know if STG 1 blade has one or not. For instance, a simple radial or double pass cooling channel without film cooling could look exactly the same from the outside compared to a turbine blade without any internal cooling channel(s). Even a more advanced distributed convection cooling design or leading edge impingement cooling design could have a low-profile opening on the turbine blade trailing-edge, making it hard to spot. Moreover, turbine blade cooling has been used in the past for turbines operating in far lower temperatures compared to TS1400, albeit with less advanced materials. It is hard to think that a gas turbine running as hot as TS1400 to not have any active cooling.

Re what @Nilgiri said,

Maybe you can tell me just for the drilling process, how many failures happened at pratt for it (when we establish innovate something here)....how many engineers have had to revisit it in the RnD tiers.

The crack initiation points and achieving quality control with that.

If its so easily scaled, the Russian (And Chinese) engines (simply going upon single crystal + temperature soundbite) would have same TBO and MRO reliability/assurance as West by now surely? What is the stage of their capital machinery research? What are the costs and efficiencies?

to sum it up, it's not as simple as you make it out to be.

 

[Yasar_TR]

Here source eat this and shut up. He literally says 1500-1800 degrees kelvin. Tubitak's director mentioned 1400 degrees Celcius but Tubitak gives that value for the blades they produced and delivered before TEI treated the blades with their own processes.

By the way, STG 1 means stage 1 power turbine, and STG 2 means stage 2
Stage 1 is where those little dent cooling channels are needed because stage 2 has a lower temperature so those are not needed. And he mentions ceramic thermal barrier coating and new more advanced coatings are being studied. There is enough evidence that current SX blades will be enough up to 1600 degrees Celcius.

First of al you need to learn to be polite when you post. Offensive language has no place in our forum. For that I am afraid you have earned yourself a warning.
Secondly you need to listen to Dr Aksit’s words carefully. He doesn’t say anything contrary to what I have been saying. He clearly says the high pressure blades are going to have special air channels to be cut in to them and air blown to cool them. Also he clearly says that these are blades that have not yet been covered with heat resistant finish. They will be covered with that finish before being used. Not as you claimed they would be used as they were. But in this post you seem to have changed your views a little. Which means you are learning.
1400Kelvin = 1124 degrees Celsius
1800Kelvin = 1527 degrees Celsius.
He says they have an operational range between these two temperatures. You never operate at your top limit.
So from engineers’ point of view we are looking at 1327 degrees Celsius operational temperatures. So previous comments about turbine entry temperatures of 1400Celsius still stands.
But to have blades that can withstand up to 1500degrees Celsius are very encouraging. However as the size of blades increase there will be more difficulties.

Turbine section of TS1400 is made out of 2 stages:
1 x High pressure turbine stage (Stg1) : air cooling and heat resistant ceramic finish
1 x Low pressure turbine stage (Stg2) must have special surface finish to stop corrosion.
In engineering we call them turbine stages. Now you know them too.

 

[Windchime]

Ther will be a sensor covering 360 degrees, in a interview with Ismail Demir told that Tubitak is working on that.

I know there's a program called BEOS which will have M/LWIR MCT imaging sensors, but is BEOS a DAS-like system(ie. MAWS) or EOTS-like system(ie. conformal targeting pod)?

 

[Siper>MMU]

I know there's a program called BEOS which will have M/LWIR MCT imaging sensors, but is BEOS a DAS-like system(ie. MAWS) or EOTS-like system(ie. conformal targeting pod)?

BEOS is EOTS like. M/LWIR sensors are for DAS like system AFAIK.

 

[Bogeyman]

It is missing the cockpit. The architecture is still not finalized. Many things will change until the critical design review.

A warning! Right now, I think you're over-expecting. But inside there is chaos. I recommend that you do not expect too much.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550152837224595456

View attachment 46557

Most likely Pakistan and Azerbaijan will be the first customers of TFX as well. It seems they are interested in Kizilelma too. There will be a twin seat and export variant developments in TFX and since the priority is in Turkish Air Forces, it will take the 2035s to be able to sell to TFX-Int for markets. There are many countries that are looking forward to the aviation projects that Turkey is developing.

 

[Rodeo]

Most likely Pakistan and Azerbaijan will be the first customers of TFX as well. It seems they are interested in Kizilelma too. There will be a twin seat and export variant developments in TFX and since the priority is in Turkish Air Forces, it will take the 2035s to be able to sell to TFX-Int for markets. There are many countries that are looking forward to the aviation projects that Turkey is developing.

I think we should tread lightly about exporting TFX. There are so many variables to consider before we hand the most strategic weapon we have to other countries(excluding Azerbaijan).

 

[Zafer]

First of al you need to learn to be polite when you post. Offensive language has no place in our forum. For that I am afraid you have earned yourself a warning.
Secondly you need to listen to Dr Aksit’s words carefully. He doesn’t say anything contrary to what I have been saying. He clearly says the high pressure blades are going to have special air channels to be cut in to them and air blown to cool them. Also he clearly says that these are blades that have not yet been covered with heat resistant finish. They will be covered with that finish before being used. Not as you claimed they would be used as they were. But in this post you seem to have changed your views a little. Which means you are learning.
1400Kelvin = 1124 degrees Celsius
1800Kelvin = 1527 degrees Celsius.
He says they have an operational range between these two temperatures. You never operate at your top limit.
So from engineers’ point of view we are looking at 1327 degrees Celsius operational temperatures. So previous comments about turbine entry temperatures of 1400Celsius still stands.
But to have blades that can withstand up to 1500degrees Celsius are very encouraging. However as the size of blades increase there will be more difficulties.

Turbine section of TS1400 is made out of 2 stages:
1 x High pressure turbine stage (Stg1) : air cooling and heat resistant ceramic finish
1 x Low pressure turbine stage (Stg2) must have special surface finish to stop corrosion.
In engineering we call them turbine stages. Now you know them too.

Mr. Akşit does not say the technology they are using only enables that much. He only says with the cooling measures they took they operating the blades at up to 1800°K. You can not the make inference from his statement that a working temperature of only 1327°C is achieved. You can very well use the blades closer to their upper limits at the cost of reduced operational life. Without knowing their service life an educated guess can not be made. A whole range of new technologies including additive manufacturing is being trialed and possibly outstanding outcomes can be expected when they are done experimenting. When there is a will there is a way, what others have achieved we can very well match. There are still years that we can take trying.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

I think we should tread lightly about exporting TFX. There are so many variables to consider before we hand the most strategic weapon we have to other countries(excluding Azerbaijan).

You know Turkiye has offered partnerships to many countries on TFx. The scope of the partnership included engineering participation and co-funding of the project but due to the high risks and cost of the project, the mentioned countries were hesitant in the Stage-1 PDR phase but Turkiye has always provided incentives for participation of its friends for the development of a highbudget project like TFX within framework of partnership like Korea, UK, France do. When the project goes to the stage-2 for critical design next year and the prototypes begin to emerge, the names of the countries that are interested in TFx will be able to be spoken more clearly because when the project goes to this stage, the authorities will conduct their negotiations over the materialized high tech prestige engineering product but no country will have the TurAF variant of TFX, so an export configuration will have to be developed.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

To feed above discussion about Turkish SCB with additional information;

High Pressure Turbine Module SCBs

• Cooled single crystal blades
• Uncooled single crystal blades

are developed and produced. Tübital HP turbine SCBs can withstand 1400° C and above

Source: Tübitak

 

[GoatsMilk]

View attachment 46560

Sore losers are at it again!

Honestly if I were Greek, I would genuinely feel ashamed...

I remember when they used to make jokes and laugh about Turkish drone programs. We got footage of our drones striking targets in libya, syria, iraq, azerbaijan and now ukraine, maybe tomorrow it will be greece.