TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Spitfire9]

Pakistan will only need Kaan should India have stealth fighters.
Malaysia can certainly buy some Kaan but in limited numbers.
I would expect gulf countries to join in at later stages.

India may have a 5G fighter in about 10 years' time. In about 10 years' time Turkiye may have an all Turkish KAAN. Of course, Pakistan may have ordered J-20 before then.

 

[Zafer]

I think, Azerbaijan will buy a few and maybe some Central Asian country. Pakistan has no money and will probably get a few J31 relatively soon. The rest of so called Islamic countries? Forget about it.

I am not referring to early stage alone, in the long run more countries can be expected to join.

 

[Zafer]

A few years down the road there maybe other offerings on the table for a fighter, when you have engines you can make various planes.

 

[mehmed beg]

I am not referring to early stage alone, in the long run more countries can be expected to join.

No . Maybe if they get it for next to nothing and that projec is presented like it wouldn't exist without them. That's how it has always worked with them.

 

[Rodeo]

Looks like test flights with TF35k by 2028-2029

Kotil, providing information about the date when KAAN will enter service, said, "We will deliver 20 KAANs to the Turkish Air Force in the year 2028. There will be hundreds more in the 2030s and beyond. This is just one phase of the project. Over the course of a hundred years, more KAANs will come. KAAN is nearly 100% indigenous. Local companies have made everything except for the engine and ejection seat. Hopefully, by 2028-2029, we will fly with our own engine. We are compelled to do this. In such a defense system, you cannot be reliant on any other country."

Temel Kotil'den KAAN üzerinden Almanya göndermesi

Ekonomi - Türkiye'nin gururu KAAN'ı yerli ve milli genç mühendislerin yaptığını söyleyen Temel Kotil, Türkiye'nin bu alanda kıyaslandığı Almanya'nın yaşlandığını belirterek, "Almanlar Mercedes yapmaya devam etsin." dedi.

ekonomi.haber7.com

This means that the tweets about deliveries with indigenous engines in 2028 is false.

 

[Zafer]

This means that the tweets about deliveries with indigenous engines in 2028 is false.

Not really, "we will fly with our own engine in 2028" may mean the engine will have been qualified for mass production by then as well. Combine this with the statement of the SSB Chief Haluk Görgün "We intend to make the engine ready in time for mass production".

 

[Afif]

Not really, "we will fly with our own engine in 2028" may mean the engine will have been qualified for mass production by then as well. Combine this with the statement of the SSB Chief Haluk Görgün "We intend to make the engine ready in time for mass production".

It's 2024, we haven't seen a prototype yet. Let alone first ignition. You expected TF35000 to be ready for mass production by 2028?

 

[Rodeo]

Not really, "we will fly with our own engine in 2028" may mean the engine will have been qualified for mass production by then as well. Combine this with the statement of the SSB Chief Haluk Görgün "We intend to make the engine ready in time for mass production".

please read what you have written and reconsider.

 

[Yasar_TR]

In Turkish we have saying:
Çok konuşan çok yanılır.
Best explanation of it would be:
The half is better than the whole
or
A moderate approach often yields the best results

Having read Dr Temel Kotil’s latest interview about KAAN, it somehow brought this saying in to my mind.
Although it is nice to have someone like him in the driving seat that keeps the media and public aware of what is going on almost on a day to day basis, it is sometimes more prudent to say less.
It was unnecessary to bring other countries in to the discussion and comparing their capabilities with ours. It was illogically silly to say Turkey is ahead of Germany in aerospace and aircraft manufacturing.
Germany comes from nearly a century of aircraft and air engine manufacturing expertise background. Even though it was Sir Frank Whittle who commercially produced a jet engine first, it was the Germans who invented first Jet engine.
Due to restrictions brought by the allies their military and jet engine industry growth has been on slow step. But they have in Germany access to the eco system and expertise to manufacture fighter jets much more readily than we ever will be.
They currently manufacture Airbus planes in Germany. Their contribution to EF2000 can not be brushed aside. It was the Eurojet engineers who first utilised Blisk tech in EJ200. They have partnership of a 4.5 generation fighter jet that they help produce which has sold 680 units. And it is probably the most potent 4.5 generation fighter out there. MTU aeroengines is a very competent engine manufacturer definitely a notch or two ahead of TEI.
We have a shell in the form of KAAN, that managed to fly with US power plants. It won’t be a fighter plane until post 2028. What it actually will be, is predominantly still in digital domain or being produced.
It is a fantastic feat of engineering for a country like ours to have achieved what we have. We mustn’t belittle what our engineers have achieved. But we also need to learn to be more modest.
Yes, when it has twin TF35K engines and Burfis Radar system with our electronics and avionics, it will be ahead of anything that is presently being produced in Europe. It will be comparable to the likes of F22. But allow others to say that instead of boasting about it before it is realised.

 

[Zafer]

please read what you have written and reconsider.

Please speak openly, I had to check out if the SSB Chief's name is not Haluk Görgün but it was.

 

[Zafer]

It's 2024, we haven't seen a prototype yet. Let alone first ignition. You expected TF35000 to be ready for mass production by 2028?

Why not, please substantiate your claims. Is there a prerequisite by law to have spent a certain amount of time developing an engine or what? You can do anything in that time when you make the best use of time.

 

[Spitfire9]

Why not, please substantiate your claims. Is there a prerequisite by law to have spent a certain amount of time developing an engine or what? You can do anything in that time when you make the best use of time.

It takes the most experienced fast jet engine developers many years to develop a new engine. I think the example of the M-88 timeline was given earlier in the thread.

I don't think it is a matter of substantiating why the TF35K will take many years to develop but more a matter of substantiating how it could be developed and tested in less than 5 years, given its current status. Has it even been designed yet? I have not heard that so I presume it has not.

Yes. there could be great urgency given to the TF35K development programme but there will be problems to overcome, problems that I guess will be more difficult to remedy for an inexperienced developer than for an experienced one.

 

[DBdev]

I agree near total silence about project technical details is concerning to me also. But that is how it should be in defense projects. Secrecy in these projects is the rule. We were spoiled rotten during 100th year celebrations. Now we are having withdrawal symptoms: Nervousness, agitation, feelings of doom and gloom...

 

[Rodeo]

Please speak openly, I had to check out if the SSB Chief's name is not Haluk Görgün but it was.

I normally get triggered by your "overly-enthusiastic" takes and write some sentences to bring it down to earth but at the end I delete what I type, thinking "he means well, why discourage it". But this is a new level even for you.

Here, Temel Kotil, who is a disney level optimist, who believes baklava makes all these achievements possible, says he is hopeful that the engine will fly for the first time in 2028-2029. And you are claiming that this engine, which does not exist yet, will/can be mass manufactured in 2028? I'm sorry but this is pure delusion. It has no basis in reality. It just reflects that your limbic system has full authority over your prefrontal cortex.

 

[Yasar_TR]

It takes the most experienced fast jet engine developers many years to develop a new engine. I think the example of the M-88 timeline was given earlier in the thread.

I don't think it is a matter of substantiating why the TF35K will take many years to develop but more a matter of substantiating how it could be developed and tested in less than 5 years, given its current status. Has it even been designed yet? I have not heard that so I presume it has not.

Yes. there could be great urgency given to the TF35K development programme but there will be problems to overcome, problems that I guess will be more difficult to remedy for an inexperienced developer than for an experienced one.

I suggest you read below page re @Cabatli_TR posts on the matter.

Propulsion Systems

I know nothing of jet engine design but I am aware that it is mighty challenging. Has there ever been a case of an engine being designed, built and run for a thousand or so hours to check it works without any problems surfacing that required fixing? It looks like the prototype TF-6000 is taking...

defencehub.live

The engine for the TFX has been on the drawing board for many years. Even before 2018. (TR Motor was formed in April 2017)

There is a consortium that is responsible for the design, and a consortium that is responsible for production.
Where they are with the project is anybody’s guess at the moment. But with Kale who are partners with RR, being in the fold for both design and production and TEI being the integral part of the project gives us the confidence we seek. Especially as RR are involved in the design stage too makes it more viable
The timeline for this engine was given as 2025-26 first ignition and 2028 as first flight and serial production to follow.
There are rumours flying around that even the outside casing of the engine has been manufactured.
But as you have rightfully pointed out if the design/development stage is not behind us today and the engine is not physically being manufactured, then the timeline is going to be extended.
Below is TEI MD Prof Aksit’s take, on the job they have signed up for. Even he doesn’t believe the timescale is achievable.

KAAN uçak motorunun maliyeti belli oldu

TEI Genel Müdürü açıkladı

www.mildefin.com

 

[Zafer]

It takes the most experienced fast jet engine developers many years to develop a new engine. I think the example of the M-88 timeline was given earlier in the thread.

I don't think it is a matter of substantiating why the TF35K will take many years to develop but more a matter of substantiating how it could be developed and tested in less than 5 years, given its current status. Has it even been designed yet? I have not heard that so I presume it has not.

Yes. there could be great urgency given to the TF35K development programme but there will be problems to overcome, problems that I guess will be more difficult to remedy for an inexperienced developer than for an experienced one.

An engine with some problems is still an engine that can fly in a good capacity and preferable to foreign sourced engines.

 

[Huelague]

I normally get triggered by your "overly-enthusiastic" takes and write some sentences to bring it down to earth but at the end I delete what I type, thinking "he means well, why discourage it". But this is a new level even for you.

Here, Temel Kotil, who is a disney level optimist, who believes baklava makes all these achievements possible, says he is hopeful that the engine will fly for the first time in 2028-2029. And you are claiming that this engine, which does not exist yet, will/can be mass manufactured in 2028? I'm sorry but this is pure delusion. It has no basis in reality. It just reflects that your limbic system has full authority over your prefrontal cortex.

I agree with you. But we was surprised with Kaan in the same way. Out of nowhere, they presented a 5.gen fighter jet.

 

[Kartal1]

@Zafer

The discussion can get heated up. I understand this, but it is unacceptable to rely on personal insults like "dumbass" and especially to a moderator. I know you and you are respectful the most of the time so we will deescalate, count it as a mistake and leave it here, but I will not accept such a behavior, targeting guys from the team and in the future we may consider harsher response.

For discussion, suggestions or trouble with moderators please use the feature below. We will have a civilized discussion and can talk about whatever troubles you.

https://defencehub.live/forums/mod-mail-all-feedback-welcome.243/

Warning was given and message deleted. Be respectful!

 

[DBdev]

As you know, even 4.5th gen F-16s are getting weaker laser weapons via pods. Next generation F-35s are almost certainly going to have destructive, longer range laser weapons. Without ignoring these developments, what do you think about having a 3rd generator on a future 6th gen. KAAN for directed energy weapons. TAI CEO keeps talking about man-unmanned 6th gen plans, ANKA-3+KAAN co-operation. But we have never heard anything about DEWs, which is the most important feature of a 6th gen fighter after hypersonic engines.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1790062134161813868

 

[godel44]

This conversation always goes round in circles. The authorities don’t specify if the Kaans will be using TF35k in serial production or in testing in 2028. TF35k seems like it will be one of those secretive projects like Gezgin or Akbaba. It might exist only on paper or it might already be a prototype undergoing tests for all we know. With the lack of public information on this issue I wouldn’t make any hard predictions.