TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[TR_123456]

Security of Supply chain is much more important than marginally better product. No doubt. Eg: Altay

So,we didnt think of that ?
Basic principle of the Turkish Defence Industry.

 

[TR_123456]

So that we can have an engine of our own to improve even further on. Our goal shouldn't be to compete with the Western engines, or any other kind for that matter. Our sole aim should be to have an engine we can build on our own that can fly our own platforms to meet our needs. As @Afif said, we can upgrade it later on, we shouldn't just expect perfection or the best engine of its class right away.

No,we need an engine to make the KAAN a true 5th gen Fighter Jet,not an engine we can work on.
We can keep using the F-110 until then.
The minimum is a 35000lbf class engine in 2028 to have a production line ready in 2030.
TF6000/TF10000 all good but these engines are not the base for a 35k engine,am i wrong @Yasar_TR abi?

 

[Yasar_TR]

Why would be pathetic? Russian AL-41F1S also has 4k hours service life. GE F414 utilized in Hornet, Super hornet, KF21, Tejas, Gripen also has 4k hours lifespan.



For TF35000, 4K service hours would be quite reasonable to begin with. Later Improvements can be introduced in stages.

Why should GE claim:

quote:

Reduced life-cycle cost​

GE Aerospace’s F414 features the latest technologies to enhance engine performance, improve engine durability, and reduce life-cycle cost (LCC) for current and future operators of next-generation combat aircraft.

unquote

If the f414 has less life than f404.

F414 Engine | GE Aerospace

The U.S. Navy has used the F414 engine to power their forces for over 30 years. Discover more about the advanced and versatile F414 engine with GE Aerospace.

www.geaerospace.com

Let us not mix “overhaul lifecycle” with “engine lifespan”.

f414 is essentially the same engine as the f404 with a larger fan that increases thrust.

just a few numbers I found online:

F414 : overhaul used to be every 2000hrs now 4000hours,
Engine life: 6-8000hrs
RR's EJ200 : Overhaul every 2000hrs,
Engine life : 6000hrs
Klimov's RD-33 : Overhaul every 300 hours,
Engine max life : 1000hrs
AL-31: Overhaul every 1,000 hours,
Engine life : 4000hrs

Going back to Turkish engine situation; we know that TS1400 is not too far beyond its foreign equivalent. It is constantly being evolved too.
TEI manufactures T700 TEI 701D engine for the Blackhawk helicopters. Production involves additive technologies and hot sections including locally produced single crystals.
First of all if GE were not happy with TEI’s hot section parts, those parts wouldn’t be on that engine. Secondly Turkish armed forces wouldn’t accept a Blackhawk helicopter with an engine fitted with inferior life and performance parameters.

So any indigenous engine KAAN will have, will not be too far beyond western equivalents.

 

[Yasar_TR]

TF6000/TF10000 all good but these engines are not the base for a 35k engine,am i wrong @Yasar_TR abi?

In view of Dr Aksit’s statements, we need to know that TF6K/TF10K engines were going to be used as stepping stones to the bigger engine. It was supposed to physically prove to TEI what was being designed in the computer is now a fact in real life.
Logic says that the construction design of TF6K lends itself to a stealthy engine. If this is what we have achieved, then it is also logical to think that we carry on with this tech on to the bigger engine. But there is so much secrecy about the TF35K that if we are going to hit the 2028 deadline for first flight then we need parts being produced now. So what you say may be the case.

 

[Afif]

Why should GE claim:

quote:

Reduced life-cycle cost​

GE Aerospace’s F414 features the latest technologies to enhance engine performance, improve engine durability, and reduce life-cycle cost (LCC) for current and future operators of next-generation combat aircraft.

unquote

If the f414 has less life than f404.

F414 Engine | GE Aerospace

The U.S. Navy has used the F414 engine to power their forces for over 30 years. Discover more about the advanced and versatile F414 engine with GE Aerospace.

www.geaerospace.com

Let us not mix “overhaul lifecycle” with “engine lifespan”.

Oops you are right, I wrote it from my memory. It gotten mixed.

 

[Agha Sher]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1788959083229299085

Temel Kotil

• Kaan being delivered in 2028 will be 100% domestic including engine and ejection seat!

Sounds they are now even more confident about TF35K

 

[Rodeo]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1788959083229299085

Temel Kotil

• Kaan being delivered in 2028 will be 100% domestic including engine and ejection seat!

Sounds they are now even more confident about TF35K

This is absurd. There must be some misunderstanding.

 

[Strong AI]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1788959083229299085

Temel Kotil

• Kaan being delivered in 2028 will be 100% domestic including engine and ejection seat!

Sounds they are now even more confident about TF35K

If he really did say that: He did say only "yerli", not "milli". This could mean that F110 engines will be produced in Türkiye.

 

[CAN_TR]

Such statements just confuse the people, raise the expectations and put pressure on the engineers/technicians working on those projects.

Sometimes, speech is silver and silence gold.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

This is absurd. There must be some misunderstanding.

As long as the report doesn't come from Temel Kotil himself, I don't believe anyone, neither person A or B.
The truthfulness of this Tweet is absolutely and 100% worth nothing.
I can also make up a name as a nickname and put the Turkish flag in my profile picture and claim that Turkey will build the Death Star and Star Destroyer in Star Wars in 5 years. Don't fall for people like that....

 

[B_A]

Such statements just confuse the people, raise the expectations and put pressure on the engineers/technicians working on those projects.

Sometimes, speech is silver and silence gold.

In a democracy,sometimes need to do promotion in public and Parliament.

Delay is quite normal in any country.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

If he really did say that: He did say only "yerli", not "milli". This could mean that F110 engines will be produced in Türkiye.

F110 is not a Yerli, most of the components, including key components, come from overseas, and the final assembly, if any, is done here. I don't know if you can still call something like this a Yerli....
To me, it's nothing more than a lukewarm fart with a slightly wet finish.... if it this yerli.
But we have an engine to close the gap, the Americans could have said no. You can't forget that either.

 

[Strong AI]

F110 is not a Yerli, most of the components, including key components, come from overseas, and the final assembly, if any, is done here. I don't know if you can still call something like this a Yerli....
To me, it's nothing more than a lukewarm fart with a slightly wet finish.... if it this yerli.
But we have an engine to close the gap, the Americans could have said no. You can't forget that either.

Do you know what "if", "could" and "will be" do mean?
Who said that F110 is "yerli" right now?

 

[B_A]

In a democracy,sometimes need to do promotion in public and Parliament.

Delay is quite normal in any country.

For example the super japanese engine IHI Corporation XF9,which the members of here used to argued with me that i looked down japanese.

IHI Corporation XF9 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They didnt have any news since 2018

 

[2033]

If he really did say that: He did say only "yerli", not "milli". This could mean that F110 engines will be produced in Türkiye.

That's what I thought.

TF35K could fly in 10 years at best.

 

[Zafer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1788959083229299085

Temel Kotil

• Kaan being delivered in 2028 will be 100% domestic including engine and ejection seat!

Sounds they are now even more confident about TF35K

Naayır, nolamaz!
No way!

 

[boredaf]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1788959083229299085

Temel Kotil

• Kaan being delivered in 2028 will be 100% domestic including engine and ejection seat!

Sounds they are now even more confident about TF35K

I know some people are not going to like this, but I don't believe anything Temel Kotil says anymore. Over the last year or two, his salesman approach to crucial project (overpromising and overselling his product) is seriously irritating me.

And not just that, statements like this just paints a rosy picture for general public who are not that informed about how defence industry works (and let's be honest, for some who should know as well) and create unnecessary grumbling when any sort of delay or problem comes up.

 

[Spitfire9]

I know some people are not going to like this, but I don't believe anything Temel Kotil says anymore. Over the last year or two, his salesman approach to crucial project (overpromising and overselling his product) is seriously irritating me.

And not just that, statements like this just paints a rosy picture for general public who are not that informed about how defence industry works (and let's be honest, for some who should know as well) and create unnecessary grumbling when any sort of delay or problem comes up.

Any chance of the ejection seat being in production in 2028? How far has its development advanced? The engine in 2028... if today a prototype were built and ready to fire up, I would be inclined to give Mr Kotil's statement some credence.

 

[Rodeo]

I haven't seen any defense news account reporting this. It's most likely false news.

 

[blackjack]

Dear Jack, let it be known to you that generally accepted things do not require proof.
Russian aircraft engines have a short service life compared to their Western counterparts.
The so-called second stage engine (item 3, AL 51F1) is not mass-produced. The engine refinement process continues and will last until 2027-2028.
The new SU 57 is equipped with the same unfinished engines. They install one new engine and another old on
By the way, AL51F1 is not a new product at all, but a modification of AL41F1.

Since no one still wants to make any kind of engine comparisons for proofs, I will start

Казань 10.11.21 г.pdf

Посмотреть и скачать с Яндекс Диска

disk.yandex.ru

Specific weight
Izd. 30 = 100
F119-PW-100 = 116
M88-3 = 115
EJ200 = 131
Izd. 117 = 119

Specific Thrust
Izd. 30 = 100
F119-PW-100 = 100
M88-3 = 98
EJ200 = 94
Izd. 117 = 94

SFC (specific fuel consumption)
Izd. 30 = 100
F119-PW-100 = 125
M88-3 = 110
EJ200 = 112
Izd. 117 = 110

The 1st stage engine of the Su-57(izd 117) has a lower thrust than the F-22 but it consumes lesser fuel than the F-22. The 2nd stage has the same thrust as the F-22 but its fuel consumption is much less than the F-22 and 1st stage engine. Russia and the U.S. are the only countries bragging about 3 stream variable cycle engines but they have yet to put them on aircrafts and fly them. Your date on the 2nd stage engines is wrong to, they are getting them in 2024 for the next batch and onwards.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/19644585?ysclid=lw0x8ulmen241612881

But the US has an excuse on why they didn't further continue any new engines for the F-22 and just go with NGAD. The Service life of the AL-41F1 is 4000 hours which seems the same as the F-22

I know they are throwing around 8000 hours of life expectancy for the F-35.

But I cant find anything on the service life of the Su-57 send stage engine which is assumed to be better in-service life than the 1st stage.
Anyone got disagreements with these statements here? I saw the thrust capabilities of the proposed TEI 10000 https://www.tei.com.tr/uploads/docs/1692366676_tei-tf10000en.pdf?1693078623
Am I reading this right?

the dry and wet performance looks like is 1/2 of either Su-57 or F-22 engines? is this like the maximum or minimum thrust estimates they gave?

You are talking about the KAAN being a full-fledged 5th generation production aircraft because of its engines before the Russians make the Su-57 a full fledge 5th gen because of its engines. So did TEI gave like low estimates on what I see here to make the aircraft fly, or they are keeping the maximum a secret before I draw any comparisons on the 1st stage Su-57 towards it? If worse comes to worse on its confirmed performance than maybe some options of buying russian engines is always a great idea in case things go south with the US since Russia has a 2nd UEC building being built.