TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

Yasar_TR

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During Soviet and subsequent Russian era, the jet engine technology development regarding turbine section, has been concentrated on directionally solidified turbine blade production. They have in house perfected the directionally solidified crystals to their own needs by attaining equiaxed crystals (these are crystals that have mostly axes of equal lengths.) .
By perfecting air cooling channel geometry and ceramic coatings they have managed to keep the boundary grain defects to a minimum and achieved acceptable high performance from these blades.
Directionally solidified blades are in essence layers of crystals. But due to their layered construction, under extreme heat and centrifugal forces the layers move unevenly away from each other, giving boundary grain imperfections and causing the Crystal lattices to deteriorate. Hence shorter lifecycles on engines especially if they are pushed hard too often.
Russians, according to western sources, have dabbled in Single Crystal blade manufacturing in some of their AL31 series engines. But did not get too far. AL41/AL51 series engines, according to unofficial sources may contain single crystals. But the fact remains that the Russian engines predominantly are produced with directionally solidified turbine blades.
It is also a known fact that the Russian jet engines’ combustion chambers are designed as shorter than western ones. Although this may give certain advantages, it also increases the chance of throwing out unspent fuel hence a smoke when pushed hard. (This however is less prominent in later engines). When you have a school of thought and design set on a specific way to produce your engine, it is not always feasible and workable to add new tech that works in the West. Hence may be their struggle with single crystals?
@Nilgiri may shed more light on this issue.
 

TR_123456

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For TF35000, 4K service hours would be quite reasonable to begin with. Later Improvements can be introduced in stages.
No,either perfect or not.
Then why go for indigenous when it is inferior to the competitors(western engines)?
 

boredaf

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No,either perfect or not.
Then why go for indigenous when it is inferior to the competitors(western engines)?
So that we can have an engine of our own to improve even further on. Our goal shouldn't be to compete with the Western engines, or any other kind for that matter. Our sole aim should be to have an engine we can build on our own that can fly our own platforms to meet our needs. As @Afif said, we can upgrade it later on, we shouldn't just expect perfection or the best engine of its class right away.
 

TR_123456

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Security of Supply chain is much more important than marginally better product. No doubt. Eg: Altay
So,we didnt think of that ?
Basic principle of the Turkish Defence Industry.
 

TR_123456

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So that we can have an engine of our own to improve even further on. Our goal shouldn't be to compete with the Western engines, or any other kind for that matter. Our sole aim should be to have an engine we can build on our own that can fly our own platforms to meet our needs. As @Afif said, we can upgrade it later on, we shouldn't just expect perfection or the best engine of its class right away.
No,we need an engine to make the KAAN a true 5th gen Fighter Jet,not an engine we can work on.
We can keep using the F-110 until then.
The minimum is a 35000lbf class engine in 2028 to have a production line ready in 2030.
TF6000/TF10000 all good but these engines are not the base for a 35k engine,am i wrong @Yasar_TR abi?
 

Yasar_TR

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Why would be pathetic? Russian AL-41F1S also has 4k hours service life. GE F414 utilized in Hornet, Super hornet, KF21, Tejas, Gripen also has 4k hours lifespan.



For TF35000, 4K service hours would be quite reasonable to begin with. Later Improvements can be introduced in stages.
Why should GE claim:

quote:

Reduced life-cycle cost​

GE Aerospace’s F414 features the latest technologies to enhance engine performance, improve engine durability, and reduce life-cycle cost (LCC) for current and future operators of next-generation combat aircraft.

unquote

If the f414 has less life than f404.


Let us not mix “overhaul lifecycle” with “engine lifespan”.

f414 is essentially the same engine as the f404 with a larger fan that increases thrust.

just a few numbers I found online:

F414 : overhaul used to be every 2000hrs now 4000hours,
Engine life: 6-8000hrs
RR's EJ200 : Overhaul every 2000hrs,
Engine life : 6000hrs
Klimov's RD-33 : Overhaul every 300 hours,
Engine max life : 1000hrs
AL-31: Overhaul every 1,000 hours,
Engine life : 4000hrs

Going back to Turkish engine situation; we know that TS1400 is not too far beyond its foreign equivalent. It is constantly being evolved too.
TEI manufactures T700 TEI 701D engine for the Blackhawk helicopters. Production involves additive technologies and hot sections including locally produced single crystals.
First of all if GE were not happy with TEI’s hot section parts, those parts wouldn’t be on that engine. Secondly Turkish armed forces wouldn’t accept a Blackhawk helicopter with an engine fitted with inferior life and performance parameters.

So any indigenous engine KAAN will have, will not be too far beyond western equivalents.
 

Yasar_TR

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TF6000/TF10000 all good but these engines are not the base for a 35k engine,am i wrong @Yasar_TR abi?
In view of Dr Aksit’s statements, we need to know that TF6K/TF10K engines were going to be used as stepping stones to the bigger engine. It was supposed to physically prove to TEI what was being designed in the computer is now a fact in real life.
Logic says that the construction design of TF6K lends itself to a stealthy engine. If this is what we have achieved, then it is also logical to think that we carry on with this tech on to the bigger engine. But there is so much secrecy about the TF35K that if we are going to hit the 2028 deadline for first flight then we need parts being produced now. So what you say may be the case.
 

Afif

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Why should GE claim:

quote:

Reduced life-cycle cost​

GE Aerospace’s F414 features the latest technologies to enhance engine performance, improve engine durability, and reduce life-cycle cost (LCC) for current and future operators of next-generation combat aircraft.

unquote

If the f414 has less life than f404.


Let us not mix “overhaul lifecycle” with “engine lifespan”.

Oops you are right, I wrote it from my memory. It gotten mixed.
 

CAN_TR

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Such statements just confuse the people, raise the expectations and put pressure on the engineers/technicians working on those projects.

Sometimes, speech is silver and silence gold.
 

IC3M@N FX

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This is absurd. There must be some misunderstanding.
As long as the report doesn't come from Temel Kotil himself, I don't believe anyone, neither person A or B.
The truthfulness of this Tweet is absolutely and 100% worth nothing.
I can also make up a name as a nickname and put the Turkish flag in my profile picture and claim that Turkey will build the Death Star and Star Destroyer in Star Wars in 5 years. Don't fall for people like that....
 
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B_A

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Such statements just confuse the people, raise the expectations and put pressure on the engineers/technicians working on those projects.

Sometimes, speech is silver and silence gold.
In a democracy,sometimes need to do promotion in public and Parliament.

Delay is quite normal in any country.
 

IC3M@N FX

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If he really did say that: He did say only "yerli", not "milli". This could mean that F110 engines will be produced in Türkiye.
F110 is not a Yerli, most of the components, including key components, come from overseas, and the final assembly, if any, is done here. I don't know if you can still call something like this a Yerli....
To me, it's nothing more than a lukewarm fart with a slightly wet finish.... if it this yerli.
But we have an engine to close the gap, the Americans could have said no. You can't forget that either.
 

Strong AI

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F110 is not a Yerli, most of the components, including key components, come from overseas, and the final assembly, if any, is done here. I don't know if you can still call something like this a Yerli....
To me, it's nothing more than a lukewarm fart with a slightly wet finish.... if it this yerli.
But we have an engine to close the gap, the Americans could have said no. You can't forget that either.

Do you know what "if", "could" and "will be" do mean?
Who said that F110 is "yerli" right now?
 

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