TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Spitfire9]

Hopefully, by 2028-2029, we will fly with our own engine.

The crucial word in that sentence is the word 'hopefully'. It is not a schedule announcement. Almost certainly it will not happen.

I would like to hear sensible, informed estimates about TF35K from the people directly involved in its development:

1 target date for design freeze
2 time needed to build the engine to that design
3 time needed to test the engine

At the moment there appears to be no indication of when the engine's design will be finalised. If the design is contingent on the TF10000 demonstrating successful performance, when is that milestone likely to be reached?

 

[Zafer]

Temel Kotil also says "we are #11th exporter of defence products in the world and what becomes Türkiye is to be #5th" which means ; USA, France, Russia, China, Türkiye. I would say Russia and France keep their positions because of relations with their past customers. Otherwise Türkiye can even get to #2 position in the long run.

 

[fushkee]

I started to believe that there is “something” we do not know. Obviously!

 

[TR_123456]

Temel Kotil also says "we are #11th exporter of defence products in the world and what becomes Türkiye is to be #5th" which means ; USA, France, Russia, China, Türkiye. I would say Russia and France keep their positions because of relations with their past customers. Otherwise Türkiye can even get to #2 position in the long run.

Why so humble,why not first???

 

[Zafer]

Why so humble,why not first???

USA has 4 times the population and will not hesitate piling even more debt to be in #1 position while we will only care to grow in a natural and easy way.

 

[Spitfire9]

Temel Kotil also says "we are #11th exporter of defence products in the world and what becomes Türkiye is to be #5th" which means ; USA, France, Russia, China, Türkiye. I would say Russia and France keep their positions because of relations with their past customers. Otherwise Türkiye can even get to #2 position in the long run.

I can see Turkiye becoming a major player in the defence market in coming years.

There are a large number of fellow Muslim countries predisposed to consider buying arms from Turkiye. How much of an edge that gives I do not know but it certainly helps. Where KAAN is concerned, US denial of supply of F-35 to Muslim Middle East countries enhances its chance of capturing export sales, does it not?

I note that Turkiye is interested in including Malaysia in the project. While that may be prompted by Malaysia being a Muslim country, I read that Malaysia has capabilities in the domain of composites that could contribute to the programme. Would Malaysia actually buy any KAAN if it were involved in the programme, I wonder.

Any chance of Pakistan becoming involved or would China put a stop to that?

PS Azerbaijan 'joined' the project nearly a year ago. Has any concrete contribution come of that?

 

[Zafer]

I can see Turkiye becoming a major player in the defence market in coming years.

There are a large number of fellow Muslim countries predisposed to consider buying arms from Turkiye. How much of an edge that gives I do not know but it certainly helps. Where KAAN is concerned, US denial of supply of F-35 to Muslim Middle East countries enhances its chance of capturing export sales, does it not?

I note that Turkiye is interested in including Malaysia in the project. While that may be prompted by Malaysia being a Muslim country, I read that Malaysia has capabilities in the domain of composites that could contribute to the programme. Would Malaysia actually buy any KAAN if it were involved in the programme, I wonder.

Any chance of Pakistan becoming involved or would China put a stop to that?

Pakistan will only need Kaan should India have stealth fighters.
Malaysia can certainly buy some Kaan but in limited numbers.
I would expect gulf countries to join in at later stages.

 

[mehmed beg]

Pakistan will only need Kaan should India have stealth fighters.
Malaysia can certainly buy some Kaan but in limited numbers.
I would expect gulf countries to join in at later stages.

I think, Azerbaijan will buy a few and maybe some Central Asian country. Pakistan has no money and will probably get a few J31 relatively soon. The rest of so called Islamic countries? Forget about it.

 

[Spitfire9]

Pakistan will only need Kaan should India have stealth fighters.
Malaysia can certainly buy some Kaan but in limited numbers.
I would expect gulf countries to join in at later stages.

India may have a 5G fighter in about 10 years' time. In about 10 years' time Turkiye may have an all Turkish KAAN. Of course, Pakistan may have ordered J-20 before then.

 

[Zafer]

I think, Azerbaijan will buy a few and maybe some Central Asian country. Pakistan has no money and will probably get a few J31 relatively soon. The rest of so called Islamic countries? Forget about it.

I am not referring to early stage alone, in the long run more countries can be expected to join.

 

[Zafer]

A few years down the road there maybe other offerings on the table for a fighter, when you have engines you can make various planes.

 

[mehmed beg]

I am not referring to early stage alone, in the long run more countries can be expected to join.

No . Maybe if they get it for next to nothing and that projec is presented like it wouldn't exist without them. That's how it has always worked with them.

 

[Rodeo]

Looks like test flights with TF35k by 2028-2029

Kotil, providing information about the date when KAAN will enter service, said, "We will deliver 20 KAANs to the Turkish Air Force in the year 2028. There will be hundreds more in the 2030s and beyond. This is just one phase of the project. Over the course of a hundred years, more KAANs will come. KAAN is nearly 100% indigenous. Local companies have made everything except for the engine and ejection seat. Hopefully, by 2028-2029, we will fly with our own engine. We are compelled to do this. In such a defense system, you cannot be reliant on any other country."

Temel Kotil'den KAAN üzerinden Almanya göndermesi

Ekonomi - Türkiye'nin gururu KAAN'ı yerli ve milli genç mühendislerin yaptığını söyleyen Temel Kotil, Türkiye'nin bu alanda kıyaslandığı Almanya'nın yaşlandığını belirterek, "Almanlar Mercedes yapmaya devam etsin." dedi.

ekonomi.haber7.com

This means that the tweets about deliveries with indigenous engines in 2028 is false.

 

[Zafer]

This means that the tweets about deliveries with indigenous engines in 2028 is false.

Not really, "we will fly with our own engine in 2028" may mean the engine will have been qualified for mass production by then as well. Combine this with the statement of the SSB Chief Haluk Görgün "We intend to make the engine ready in time for mass production".

 

[Afif]

Not really, "we will fly with our own engine in 2028" may mean the engine will have been qualified for mass production by then as well. Combine this with the statement of the SSB Chief Haluk Görgün "We intend to make the engine ready in time for mass production".

It's 2024, we haven't seen a prototype yet. Let alone first ignition. You expected TF35000 to be ready for mass production by 2028?

 

[Rodeo]

Not really, "we will fly with our own engine in 2028" may mean the engine will have been qualified for mass production by then as well. Combine this with the statement of the SSB Chief Haluk Görgün "We intend to make the engine ready in time for mass production".

please read what you have written and reconsider.

 

[Yasar_TR]

In Turkish we have saying:
Çok konuşan çok yanılır.
Best explanation of it would be:
The half is better than the whole
or
A moderate approach often yields the best results

Having read Dr Temel Kotil’s latest interview about KAAN, it somehow brought this saying in to my mind.
Although it is nice to have someone like him in the driving seat that keeps the media and public aware of what is going on almost on a day to day basis, it is sometimes more prudent to say less.
It was unnecessary to bring other countries in to the discussion and comparing their capabilities with ours. It was illogically silly to say Turkey is ahead of Germany in aerospace and aircraft manufacturing.
Germany comes from nearly a century of aircraft and air engine manufacturing expertise background. Even though it was Sir Frank Whittle who commercially produced a jet engine first, it was the Germans who invented first Jet engine.
Due to restrictions brought by the allies their military and jet engine industry growth has been on slow step. But they have in Germany access to the eco system and expertise to manufacture fighter jets much more readily than we ever will be.
They currently manufacture Airbus planes in Germany. Their contribution to EF2000 can not be brushed aside. It was the Eurojet engineers who first utilised Blisk tech in EJ200. They have partnership of a 4.5 generation fighter jet that they help produce which has sold 680 units. And it is probably the most potent 4.5 generation fighter out there. MTU aeroengines is a very competent engine manufacturer definitely a notch or two ahead of TEI.
We have a shell in the form of KAAN, that managed to fly with US power plants. It won’t be a fighter plane until post 2028. What it actually will be, is predominantly still in digital domain or being produced.
It is a fantastic feat of engineering for a country like ours to have achieved what we have. We mustn’t belittle what our engineers have achieved. But we also need to learn to be more modest.
Yes, when it has twin TF35K engines and Burfis Radar system with our electronics and avionics, it will be ahead of anything that is presently being produced in Europe. It will be comparable to the likes of F22. But allow others to say that instead of boasting about it before it is realised.

 

[Zafer]

please read what you have written and reconsider.

Please speak openly, I had to check out if the SSB Chief's name is not Haluk Görgün but it was.

 

[Zafer]

It's 2024, we haven't seen a prototype yet. Let alone first ignition. You expected TF35000 to be ready for mass production by 2028?

Why not, please substantiate your claims. Is there a prerequisite by law to have spent a certain amount of time developing an engine or what? You can do anything in that time when you make the best use of time.

 

[Spitfire9]

Why not, please substantiate your claims. Is there a prerequisite by law to have spent a certain amount of time developing an engine or what? You can do anything in that time when you make the best use of time.

It takes the most experienced fast jet engine developers many years to develop a new engine. I think the example of the M-88 timeline was given earlier in the thread.

I don't think it is a matter of substantiating why the TF35K will take many years to develop but more a matter of substantiating how it could be developed and tested in less than 5 years, given its current status. Has it even been designed yet? I have not heard that so I presume it has not.

Yes. there could be great urgency given to the TF35K development programme but there will be problems to overcome, problems that I guess will be more difficult to remedy for an inexperienced developer than for an experienced one.