TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[uçuyorum]

Until 2034 ( or 2-3 more years) , the chances of us buying approx 100 of each of those is not bad, and spain is buying 24 + 24? We have to sell 150-200 more and T7 is still problematic. Hurjet has luck in many markets surprisingly

 

[Radko]

Who is going to buy 500 Hurkus, Hurjet, KAAN combined by 2034? I don't know anything about Hurkus but Hurjet is up against T7-A, a formidable competitor. KAAN is up against ITAR/CAATSA, although a preference for Muslim countries to buy from Turkiye gives it a unique advantage over other 5G aircraft. And a further big advantage when TF35000 is fitted (having a non-US engine).

If a Eurofighter order is confirmed in 2025, I imagine that new EF could be supplied from 2028. The ex-RAF tranche 1 aircraft, presumably to be supplied to TuAF, should help to speed up training and induction of the new EF supplied, shouldn't they?

I see EF as a useful insurance against slippage in the KAAN program and, of course, against the now unstable US leadership creating problems with engine supply. Further political problems may be created by Erdogan moving further away from democratic values. Turning Turkiye further towards dictatorship may jeopardise the smooth progress of an EF deal.

I wonder how fast development of KAAN systems can progress and how long it will take for in service KAAN to reach a capability useful to TuAF.

Regarding TF35000, will orders for KAAN be reduced in anticipation of the TF35000 becoming available? Ideally Turkiye will receive as few KAAN as possible with a foreign engine. That is at odds with producing a very large number for TuAF by 2034.

More than 100 Hürjet orders come from Turkey and Spain

 

[Saithan]

Like I said a few pages back. Engine sale is not approved by Senate for Hürjet yet. So you got max 20 Hürjet or so from the prototype sale that could be done without Senate approval.

 

[Khagan1923]

Like I said a few pages back. Engine sale is not approved by Senate for Hürjet yet. So you got max 20 Hürjet or so from the prototype sale that could be done without Senate approval.

I expect most things to get approved after Erdogan visits Trump, which was supposed to happen this month but guess got delayed. We will see. The F-35 topic will most likely will be solved then too.

Also wasn't the roll-out for P1 to happen in May? Guess that one got delayed too, though we still have a week left.

 

[Spitfire9]

More than 100 Hürjet orders come from Turkey and Spain

Sure. Apart from the US, who else is likely to want a supersonic trainer in the next 10 years and how many? Boeing, KIA and TIA look like the possible suppliers.

Let us remember that Spain's desire to offload its excess A400M is an important factor in buying Hurjet.

Apart from the US, who else is likely to want a supersonic trainer/light attack aircraft in the next 10 years and how many? Boeing, KIA and TIA look like the possible suppliers.

I don't ask because I don't think there is a market. I ask because I don't have any idea how large the market is likely to be.

 

[Huelague]

Who is going to buy 500 Hurkus, Hurjet, KAAN combined by 2034? I don't know anything about Hurkus but Hurjet is up against T7-A, a formidable competitor. KAAN is up against ITAR/CAATSA, although a preference for Muslim countries to buy from Turkiye gives it a unique advantage over other 5G aircraft. And a further big advantage when TF35000 is fitted (having a non-US engine).

Most will be bought by Türkiye. The rest are just speculations. Defense Export means strategic foreign policy. “The Gaza issue” turn many countries apart from West, to Türkiye. Countries like Azerbaijan, Qatar, Indonesia in the first place and many other countries.

If a Eurofighter order is confirmed in 2025, I imagine that new EF could be supplied from 2028. The ex-RAF tranche 1 aircraft, presumably to be supplied to TuAF, should help to speed up training and induction of the new EF supplied, shouldn't they?

If we order EF this year, how many will we get, in which year? Until 2028/29 we will start with Kaan mass production. No need for more foreign jets.

I see EF as a useful insurance against slippage in the KAAN program and, of course, against the now unstable US leadership creating problems with engine supply. Further political problems may be created by Erdogan moving further away from democratic values. Turning Turkiye further towards dictatorship may jeopardise the smooth progress of an EF deal.

Kaan project goes well without big disruption. Erdogans ‚policy‘ will not change any fact. Right now, it’ will be some „Wests“ nations who will see themselves on an international court. And with Trump, I can’t see any disruption. About dictatorships, US government calls the German as a dictatorship. Not Türkiye.

I wonder how fast development of KAAN systems can progress and how long it will take for in service KAAN to reach a capability useful to TuAF.

2028/29.

Regarding TF35000, will orders for KAAN be reduced in anticipation of the TF35000 becoming available? Ideally Turkiye will receive as few KAAN as possible with a foreign engine. That is at odds with producing a very large number for TuAF by 2034.

It depends on the TF35000 process speed and maturation. But as the officials said, we have a plan A, B, C, D…

 

[Pokemonte13]

Most will be bought by Türkiye. The rest are just speculations. Defense Export means strategic foreign policy. “The Gaza issue” turn many countries apart from West, to Türkiye. Countries like Azerbaijan, Qatar, Indonesia in the first place and many other countries.

If we order EF this year, how many will we get, in which year? Until 2028/29 we will start with Kaan mass production. No need for more foreign jets.


Kaan project goes well without big disruption. Erdogans ‚policy‘ will not change any fact. Right now, it’ will be some „Wests“ nations who will see themselves on an international court. And with Trump, I can’t see any disruption. About dictatorships, US government calls the German as a dictatorship. Not Türkiye.


2028/29.


It depends on the TF35000 process speed and maturation. But as the officials said, we have a plan A, B, C, D…

Firstly even if most is bought by turkey some numbers still don’t ad up.
Hürkuş sales should be around 60 aircraft and most of them will be sold to TAF. Hürjet if it won’t be used as LCA by Turkish airforce should be about 150 max. Kaan delivery’s start 28 but those will not be fully operational until a couple of years later and serial production is supposed to star in 2032 with two aircraft a month. Eurofighter is wanted because it’s a good capable Aircraft which can be delivered faster than Kaan.

 

[alfonsvlora]

I see EF as a useful insurance against slippage in the KAAN program and, of course, against the now unstable US leadership creating problems with engine supply. Further political problems may be created by Erdogan moving further away from democratic values. Turning Turkiye further towards dictatorship may jeopardise the smooth progress of an EF deal.

Sorry my friend, but maybe you have unintentionally made a pure speculation...
I will be very brief:

1. The KAAN program will never fail! All of us here on the forum know nothing, apart from the limited information that is given to us by the media and on which we comment.
2. EF is something like "pull it and don't break it" ... they like to pretend, great, Turkiye pretends too...

 

[Spitfire9]

Most will be bought by Türkiye. The rest are just speculations. Defense Export means strategic foreign policy. “The Gaza issue” turn many countries apart from West, to Türkiye. Countries like Azerbaijan, Qatar, Indonesia in the first place and many other countries.

If we order EF this year, how many will we get, in which year? Until 2028/29 we will start with Kaan mass production. No need for more foreign jets.


About dictatorships, US government calls the German as a dictatorship. Not Türkiye.

Sorry my friend, but maybe you have unintentionally made a pure speculation...
I will be very brief:

1. The KAAN program will never fail! All of us here on the forum know nothing, apart from the limited information that is given to us by the media and on which we comment.
2. EF is something like "pull it and don't break it" ... they like to pretend, great, Turkiye pretends too...

Of course I am speculating. Realistically is my intention.

I don't think the KAAN programme will fail. Exactly how long it will take to supply TuAF with a decent number of viable fighters, I cannot know. In contrast, I think that EF reached FOC years ago.

If you don't want Eurofighter, stop trying to buy it. As a UK citizen, I would prefer UK not to supply it to a country heading for dictatorship.

You don't want Turkiye to buy Eurofighter from UK. I don't want UK to sell Eurofighter to Turkiye. We agree about something.

 

[Tabmachine]

Of course I am speculating. Realistically is my intention.

I don't think the KAAN programme will fail. Exactly how long it will take to supply TuAF with a decent number of viable fighters, I cannot know. In contrast, I think that EF reached FOC years ago.

If you don't want Eurofighter, stop trying to buy it. As a UK citizen, I would prefer UK not to supply it to a country heading for dictatorship.

In that case you would no doubt want to cease all arms sales to Israel as well correct? You would also want to cease all military-industrial cooperation with France which holds over 90% of the gold reserves of West African countries in the Banque de France, correct?

I think you overrate the importance of morals in these arms transactions, or in general in the governing psychology of your countries politics. If it is considered to be in the strategic interest of the involved stakeholders, a deal will be made. If you are but using democracy as a kind of whacking stick, for cynical purposes, then I would say you are using it correctly.

 

[Spitfire9]

In that case you would no doubt want to cease all arms sales to Israel as well correct?

Exactly right.

 

[Sanchez]

In that case you would no doubt want to cease all arms sales to Israel as well correct?

I think we can do a bit better than simple whataboutism in a forum of peers.

 

[Tabmachine]

I think we can do a bit better than simple whataboutism in a forum of peers.

whataboutism is tactic of deflection. I would contend my point is not to confirm or deny the political realities in Turkiye, just to invalidate the whole idea of morality being a factor in arms transactions (in this case the potential EF deal).

However Spitfire did demonstrate moral consistency, so kudos to him in that regard.

 

[Pete Mitchell Maverick]

Could there be any developments regarding the F-35 after the Trump-Erdogan meeting?

Germany can constantly cause problems for the EF, so it is much more logical to focus on a single country's project rather than a joint project of four countries. I think that if the F-35 is purchased, the EF will be completely shelved.

 

[Huelague]

Exactly how long it will take to supply TuAF with a decent number of viable fighters,

2 per month.

If you don't want Eurofighter, stop trying to buy it.

These decisions are made by governments not ordinary citizens.

I would prefer UK not to supply it to a country heading for dictatorship.

Than write a letter to British government not to supply mass murderers like Netanyahu, if you have morality problems. And if you don’t like dictators, stop supplying Zelensky.

 

[Huelague]

Exactly how long it will take to supply TuAF with a decent number of viable fighters,

2 per month.

If you don't want Eurofighter, stop trying to buy it.

These decisions are made by governments not ordinary citizens.

I would prefer UK not to supply it to a country heading for dictatorship.

Than write a letter to British government not to supply mass murderers like Netanyahu, if you have morality problems. And if you don’t like dictators, stop supplying Zelensky.

You don't want Turkiye to buy Eurofighter from UK. I don't want UK to sell Eurofighter to Turkiye. We agree about something.

Again, these decisions are not made by citizens.

 

[boredaf]

I would prefer UK not to supply it to a country heading for dictatorship.

There you go with your high horse again. Take a good look at what weapons UK have been selling to who throughout the years, Turkey, even with all its faults and problems right now, is no fucking worse than any of them. UK have been selling weapons to dictatorships for decades lad, weapons you sold have been used in ethnic cleansings and genocides. Stop trying to white wash UK and act like you're above us somehow, you're only coming off as supremacist doing that.

 

[Spitfire9]

Stop trying to white wash UK and act like you're above us somehow, you're only coming off as supremacist doing that.

I rate democracy above dictatorship. I live in a society that holds democracy including the many freedoms it incorporates - among which freedom of expression - above dictatorship. Do you find that to be 'supremacist'?

 

[Saithan]

Stay on topic please. Leave politics out. We can only cast our votes every 4th year.

 

[Hannibal]

Does anyone know if two seater Kaan will come?

Would be good to have a dedicated EW aircraft to escort other Kaan jets for SEAD missions.