TR Air-Force TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Sanchez]

AFAIK that israeli news mentioned in the news from star is based on these

KAAN, la “Pasión Turca” o el nuevo “Caballo Negro” del tablero aeronáutico (1ª parte) - Defensa y Seguridad

Entre el colapso del FCAS y el “efecto KAAN”: soberanía industrial, riesgos políticos y el hueco que se abre para España

defensayseguridad.es

KAAN, la “Pasión Turca” o el nuevo “Caballo Negro” del tablero aeronáutico (2ª parte): el MOTOR - Defensa y Seguridad

Hablemos del motor. Análisis de un acuerdo que podría resultar muy beneficioso para las fuerzas aéreas española y turca

defensayseguridad.es

And here is the news about it from Tolga Özbek

TF35000 motoru için İspanyol ITP ve TEI neler yapabilir? - Tolga Özbek

Öbür tarafta TUSAŞ ve MMU KAAN var. Uçağın motorunu ise TEI ve TRMotor yapıyor. Bu konuda örneğin İspanyol motor imalatçısı ve teknoloji geliştiricisi ITP ile

tolgaozbek.com

Yup, Star just stole the news without giving a source.

It's an article about what is Kaan for Spanish readers with a part about how one large Spanish company can directly contribute to it. There's no deal with ITP(yet.)

 

[TR_123456]

İsrail'i korkutan KAAN gelişmesi | STAR

Haberin detayları için tıklayınız

www.star.com.tr

This news content seems too far fetched. But then again so had the Hurjet deal, when it was first mentioned that Spain may buy “Turkish” jets.

According to the information given, there are lots of logical thought processes that one can not dismiss outright.

“According to a report in the Israeli newspaper Maariv, citing Spanish defense sources, the Madrid government has completely abandoned the F-35 project and has begun serious preparations for the Turkish-made KAAN National Combat Aircraft.”

STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP: ITP AERO AND TEI ALLIANCE
Spain's interest in the KAAN is not limited to a simple aircraft purchase. At the heart of the project lies the goal of complete independence in engine technology. Spanish ITP Aero and Türkiye's engine giant TEI are preparing to establish a "technical survival alliance" for the KAAN's domestically produced engine.

Goal: To end dependence on American General Electric F110 engines.

Focus: Türkiye's developed TF35000 engine.

Division of Labor:
According to the division of labor, TEI will provide the production infrastructure, while ITP Aero will offer technical expertise, particularly in the "hot section" and low-pressure turbine areas. The first ground tests are planned to begin in 2026, with the first flight with the new engine scheduled for 2029. The ultimate goal is stated to be making KAAN independent of American vetoes.”

ITP Aero was a RR subsidiary company until recently. They were instrumental in designing and building a TVC version of the EJ200 engine aimed at getting Indian engine business.

Israeli sources are worried that Spanish see the Kaan superior to F35, according to this news.

Saudi, Pakistani, Indonesian and Egyptian do not bring anything technical that is substantially important to the table. But a Spanish involvement would be invaluable.

We will wait and see how much of this news is credible.

The way P1 and P2 look it could be a reality in the future,even i am impressed by their look.

 

[Fuzuli NL]

 

[Spitfire9]

If foreign engine not arrive by mid 2028 then replace foreign engine with local engine by mid 2029, end wait.

The problem with that idea is that there will not be a local engine by mid-2029.

 

[Zafer]

The problem with that idea is that there will not be a local engine by mid-2029.

It depends, if foreign engine does not arrive local engine can be fast tracked, I don't see a roadblock on this path.

 

[hugh]

It depends, if foreign engine does not arrive local engine can be fast tracked, I don't see a roadblock on this path.

the engine prototype will be fired first time in 2028, earliest. this comes from TAI CEO. we have just entered the CDR phase. so there is no TF35k to run, yet. we haven't started building the first prototype. so what you say is literally impossible.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2022605649335497064

 

[Zafer]

the engine prototype will be fired first time in 2028, earliest. this comes from TAI CEO. we have just entered the CDR phase. so there is no TF35k to run, yet. we haven't started building the first prototype. so what you say is literally impossible.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2022605649335497064

Fast tract is when you contract time, it is not like you have to let the project age naturally, you take faster steps to maturation. Also the engine might be slated for a later date for maturation but once you reach a point in the process where your engine has already past the performance levels of the foreign engine it becomes your best option even before it has reached the high power levels you are targeting. From 29k lbf to 35k+ lbf thrust levels there is quite a bit of efforts and if you get past 29k lbf by mid 2028 you can possibly use that engine on the plane by mid 2029 if it is your only option.

 

[boredaf]

It depends, if foreign engine does not arrive local engine can be fast tracked, I don't see a roadblock on this path.

Other than reality that we live in and physical and engineering constraint that exist in that reality. But sure, other than that, it can be fast tracked. Sort of like clicking on the left mouse button really fast when Windows XP used to freeze, it definitely helps if you're not constraint to objective facts.

 

[Merzifonlu]

With one exception, I agree with @Zafer. As soon as the TF35000's thrust level catches up to the GE F110 engine, we should immediately start using it on the Kaan fighter jet. There's no need to wait for it to reach the 24000/35000 lbf level. The exception is: Until the engine matures, the Kaans should fly unmanned.

 

[Sanchez]

Until the engine matures, the Kaans should fly unmanned

That won't happen.

 

[boredaf]

Until the engine matures, the Kaans should fly unmanned.

There is a reason nobody is actually talking about making 6th gen planes unmanned but instead talking about manned unmanned teaming concepts mate. Even if it were possible, nobody in their right mind would trust a plane that is worth over 100 million to an automated system, that creates ungodly amounts of problems.

 

[Huelague]

FCAS program starts in 2017. Now, look where they are. We are fast and on track. 2-3 years of delay will not be the end of everything.

 

[uçuyorum]

With one exception, I agree with @Zafer. As soon as the TF35000's thrust level catches up to the GE F110 engine, we should immediately start using it on the Kaan fighter jet. There's no need to wait for it to reach the 24000/35000 lbf level. The exception is: Until the engine matures, the Kaans should fly unmanned.

This entire thing is a misconception. Engine thrust level not reaching 35000 is not what's holding the engine back. If we could make a slightly less strong engine much faster we would, but that's not the point. The first iteration of TF35000 may not even match that number but for any engine to reach maturity to fly its gonna be 2032-3, not 2028

 

[Yasar_TR]

This entire thing is a misconception. Engine thrust level not reaching 35000 is not what's holding the engine back. If we could make a slightly less strong engine much faster we would, but that's not the point. The first iteration of TF35000 may not even match that number but for any engine to reach maturity to fly its gonna be 2032-3, not 2028

Bro you’ve mis understood @Merzifonlu ‘s comments. Look at TF6000. 3-4 months ago it had already developed more thrust than the engine that was being used on Anka-3. Dr Aksit then said that if needed this engine can now be used. But if we are to wait for the engine to mature, then we are looking at another 18 months to 2 years.

When an engine like TF3500 is being developed, within a few months it may give us 18000lbf dry 29-30000lbf wet thrust. Instead of begging for foreign engines, these can be slapped on to those planes to allow them to be used even with diminished capacity.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

Yes, but probably only with +-1000 operating hours, which is the problem. An engine stands or falls with series production if it has to be completely overhauled after 500-600+ operating hours and is completely worn out after 1000+ hours, then it becomes really expensive in Twin Engine FIGHTER.
Therefore, long-term testing and trial and error with the engine are mandatory.

Ideally, of course, the first series of TEI TF-35000 Engines would have at least 2000-3000 operating hours, which would then be increased to 5000-6000 operating hours by 2035+ through new series and improvements.

 

[Merzifonlu]

I’d like to thank @Yasar_TR for helping clarify my intention. And @IC3M@N FX, you’re absolutely right — the first TF35000s will indeed be that expensive. However, the most costly engines remain the GE F110-129s, which unfortunately were never sold to us.

 

[hugh]

@Nilgiri

what is the minimum requirement an engine needs to satisfy before it's integrated with a platform? is hitting certain thrust targets enough to give the go?

 

[Huelague]

Other than reality that we live in and physical and engineering constraint that exist in that reality. But sure, other than that, it can be fast tracked. Sort of like clicking on the left mouse button really fast when Windows XP used to freeze, it definitely helps if you're not constraint to objective facts.

Any idea how fast jets are matured from prototype to serial production?

 

[Pokemonte13]

Any idea how fast jets are matured from prototype to serial production?

The YF22 made its first flight in 1990, was put in to service in 2003 and reached full operational readiness in 2007.
The (X)F35 made its first flight in 2000, was put in to service in 2015 and reached (full) operational readiness in 2019-2020.
The Eurofighter made its first flight in 1994, was put in to service in 2006 and reached operational readiness around the 2010 but still lagged air to ground capability.

 

[Ahlatshah]

The YF22 made its first flight in 1990, was put in to service in 2003 and reached full operational readiness in 2007.
The (X)F35 made its first flight in 2000, was put in to service in 2015 and reached (full) operational readiness in 2019-2020.
The Eurofighter made its first flight in 1994, was put in to service in 2006 and reached operational readiness around the 2010 but still lagged air to ground capability.

All of the above are true. But today's technology simply much more advanced. Digital twins, ai, computing power etc. all sort of things have made it much shorter.

Besides, we have a sense of urgency because of the F35 situation, other's did not. First flight of Kaan was 2023, but it will not wait 15 years to become operational