TR TF-X KAAN Fighter Jet

[Yasar_TR]

Burak Ege Bokdil

"Turkey’s indigenous fighter program, dubbed TF-X (or MMU in its Turkish acronym), has been crawling over the past years due to technological failures and issues with know-how transfers. Turkish engineers must first select an engine for the planned aircraft before finalizing the design phase."

Turkey launches F-16 life-extension program amid lack of replacement aircraft

Turkey’s procurement and defense authorities have launched a program designed to increase the structural life of the country’s existing fleet of F-16 Block 30 jets from 8,000 flight hours to 12,000.

www.defensenews.com

Has this guy been on meths or drugs ??
what is he talking about?
The surname suits him

 

[azaher77]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1357720624991531011

 

[what]

On a related note maybe, for those interested what is happening in other projects in other countries.

One advantage of developing without partners is you're save from all the (un)necessary haggling and fighting.

FCAS is already having a cost explosion according to German media. Germany fought to have Spain in the consortium, France didnt want to but agreed. Now France is demanding a majority of the workshare and IP. Spain demands 1/3 of production of certain parts and is not even contributing 20% on the financing and France is not so sure if Spain can finance it to begin with.

Of course FCAS has the advantage that the costs will be divided by three countries and it will receive three times the orders but it starts like a typical German project. Price explosion and delays are expected.

And then the thing about actually being a democracy is that France fears that the next German government will have the Green party, that is usually very pacifistic and against military spending, in it so they want to get the project going before the next elections in November so they will find some messy deal that will make everbody and nobody happy.

 

[dBSPL]

The auxiliary power unit(APU) for MMU/TFX will be developed by TrMotor. It was announced by Dr Osman Dur.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1358492015701458946

 

[the]

Some interesting models on display.

 

[Cabatli_TR]

TrMotor workshare in TfX MMU

• Turbofan engine design/development
• APU (Auxiliary Power Unit)
• ATSS (Air Turbine Start System)

 

[Huelague]

View attachment 14186




View attachment 14187

Some interesting models on display.

I know, its not the final design. Inlet should closer to fuselage (F-35) and engine enbeded in that like in the F22.

 

[Yasar_TR]

quote:
Akşit ayrıca Milli Muharip Uçak (MMU) hakkında da açıklamalar yaparak, motorun geliştirilmesinin TEI’ye verilmediğini belirtti ve “MMU motorunun geliştirilmesi yıllar alacak, TRMotor geliştirse bile imalatı bize gelecek büyük ihtimalle. 2023’te hangardan çıkacak ilk uçak F-16 motorlarıyla, F110 ile çıkacak. F-16 motorlarının bütün bileşenleri TEI’de bir araya getiriliyor. F110 konusunda bizde çok ciddi bir know-how tecrübesi var. İlk üretilecek 5-10 prototip motor imalatı TEI’de yapılacak. Biz onun görüşmelerini yürütüyoruz şimdi.” ifadelerini kullandı.
unquote.
TEI MD Prof.M. Aksit says that they haven’t got the job of developing the TFX engine. He says this process will take years. Even if TR Motor develops it TEI will most likely get the job of manufacturing it. He says the first prototypes will be powered by f110 engines. TEI puts this engine together and has extensive expertise on the know-how. First 5-10 prototype engine production will be made in TEI. At this moment in time we are discussing this procedure.
It is a bit confusing. Even though he says TEI has not been given the job of developing the TFX engine, he says the first 5-10 prototype engines (probably f110 engines) will be produced by TEI.

TEI yeni motor geliştiriyor

TEI Yönetim Kurulu Başkanı ve Genel Müdürü Prof. Dr. Mahmut Faruk Akşit, "Yeni bir PD180 motoru geliştiriyoruz" dedi

www.savunmasanayiidergilik.com

 

[Nilgiri]

He says this process will take years. Even if TR Motor develops it TEI will most likely get the job of manufacturing it. He says the first prototypes will be powered by f110 engines. TEI puts this engine together and has extensive expertise on the know-how. First 5-10 prototype engine production will be made in TEI. At this moment in time we are discussing this procedure.
It is a bit confusing. Even though he says TEI has not been given the job of developing the TFX engine, he says the first 5-10 prototype engines (probably f110 engines) will be produced by TEI.

It makes sense. In India case, if we make final advancement....it will not be GTRE (design agency) that makes the engine....but likely HAL (which makes turboshafts already for helicopters w.r.t ToT etc from Safran)...or something like HAL.

Very often RnD phase and production phase is delineated like this in number of countries that just entered arena.

 

[Bogeyman]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362636711709331456

 

[Yasar_TR]

Message from Russia to Turkey: "We Are Ready to Negotiate for Su-35 and Su-57" - C4 Defence

Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation of Russia answered reporters' questions about talks on the sale of Su-35s and Su-57s to Turkey.

www.c4defence.com

Not the Su35 but Su57 should be discussed on the table if they are prepared to supply quickly together with their own airforce’s order, say 30-40 planes with source codes to enable us to fit our weapons. (Mind you, R77 and R37ME wouldn’t go amiss.)
Also supply of their new engine for the TFX with a view to build it in Turkey could be discussed.
Even if we are not really intending to purchase them, to keep these avenues open is good. These discussions also give insight in to knowing more about their planes. Today they want to sell us these planes. Tomorrow when we need them it could be dearer and more difficult to buy. So discussion doesn’t hurt!

 

[Turko]

Message from Russia to Turkey: "We Are Ready to Negotiate for Su-35 and Su-57" - C4 Defence

Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation of Russia answered reporters' questions about talks on the sale of Su-35s and Su-57s to Turkey.

www.c4defence.com

Not the Su35 but Su57 should be discussed on the table if they are prepared to supply quickly together with their own airforce’s order, say 30-40 planes with source codes to enable us to fit our weapons. (Mind you, R77 and R37ME wouldn’t go amiss.)
Also supply of their new engine for the TFX with a view to build it in Turkey could be discussed.
Even if we are not really intending to purchase them, to keep these avenues open is good. These discussions also give insight in to knowing more about their planes. Today they want to sell us these planes. Tomorrow when we need them it could be dearer and more difficult to buy. So discussion doesn’t hurt!

There isn't any operational SU-57, so what would you say about chinese J-20? The Chinese have always been eager to share technology of SAM. With ToT long range chinese stealth fighter seems not too bad, however we will bid farewell to NATO after j20.

 

[Foulgrim]

Message from Russia to Turkey: "We Are Ready to Negotiate for Su-35 and Su-57" - C4 Defence

Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation of Russia answered reporters' questions about talks on the sale of Su-35s and Su-57s to Turkey.

www.c4defence.com

Not the Su35 but Su57 should be discussed on the table if they are prepared to supply quickly together with their own airforce’s order, say 30-40 planes with source codes to enable us to fit our weapons. (Mind you, R77 and R37ME wouldn’t go amiss.)
Also supply of their new engine for the TFX with a view to build it in Turkey could be discussed.
Even if we are not really intending to purchase them, to keep these avenues open is good. These discussions also give insight in to knowing more about their planes. Today they want to sell us these planes. Tomorrow when we need them it could be dearer and more difficult to buy. So discussion doesn’t hurt!

Why are you talking in Turkey about the supply of Russian-made fighter jets? NATO (mainly the US) is not going to accept a fighter that is not in line with its architecture, especially when you have been a member of this alliance since 1952. Turkey's weapons systems cannot be synchronized with a Russian or Chinese fighter jet. The same thing happened with the S-400 Triumf. The main problem is the TADIL-A / Link 11 communication system which does not exist in Chinese and Russian weapons systems. Unless you purchase weapons systems that operate autonomously beyond NATO architecture. Know that NATO is not going to be happy at all if it finds out. As for the engine of the fifth generation TAI TF-X fighter, TR Motor recently signed a contract for its development.

 

[Foulgrim]

There isn't any operational SU-57, so what would you say about chinese J-20? The Chinese have always been eager to share technology of SAM. With ToT long range chinese stealth fighter seems not too bad, however we will bid farewell to NATO after j20.

There is no clause in the NATO accession treaty that says you can be somehow expelled by other NATO member states from the Euro-Atlantic Alliance. The only way to leave NATO is for the member state to ask for it. The purchase of Chinese or Russian weapons systems will definitely implement CAATSA law from the USA. The S-400 Triumf has not been subject to heavy financial sanctions (so far) but if you get a fighter jet from Russia or China you will not escape them.

 

[Blank1]

There isn't any operational SU-57, so what would you say about chinese J-20? The Chinese have always been eager to share technology of SAM. With ToT long range chinese stealth fighter seems not too bad, however we will bid farewell to NATO after j20.

Fortunately or unfortunately J 20's are not for sale.

 

[Yasar_TR]

There isn't any operational SU-57, so what would you say about chinese J-20? The Chinese have always been eager to share technology of SAM. With ToT long range chinese stealth fighter seems not too bad, however we will bid farewell to NATO after j20.

I am very much against using eastern block technology and equipment. All our defence set up is geared for western tech. But having said that I think it would not hurt to discuss and leave doors open.
Chinese planes are still very much dependent on Russian engines. Their main point of reference is Saturn AI31 engines that they extensively use. Russian jet engine technology is ahead of the Chinese. So if there is going to be any discussions to be had , it has to be with the Russians.
I don’t think we will have any problem in making the TFX body and avionics. Especially with help of BAE Systems in the loop we will get this plane’s body built to a good standard. The engine is the problem And stumbling block at the moment. I have no confidence in TR Motor. There are two addresses for this engine ; Kale/RR and TEI.

There are over 10 SU57’s in prototype guise With at least 2 of them flying using the new izdeliye 30 engine. First serial production SU57, last year, fell off the sky a few days before it was delivered.
But since then another one has been delivered to the Russian airforce. At least 2 of these so called prototype planes have been tried in Syria under warfare conditions.
So these planes are not as “green” as some say they are!
This all means that there are grounds for carrying on “discussions”!

 

[Yasar_TR]

I

Why are you talking in Turkey about the supply of Russian-made fighter jets? NATO (mainly the US) is not going to accept a fighter that is not in line with its architecture, especially when you have been a member of this alliance since 1952. Turkey's weapons systems cannot be synchronized with a Russian or Chinese fighter jet. The same thing happened with the S-400 Triumf. The main problem is the TADIL-A / Link 11 communication system which does not exist in Chinese and Russian weapons systems. Unless you purchase weapons systems that operate autonomously beyond NATO architecture. Know that NATO is not going to be happy at all if it finds out. As for the engine of the fifth generation TAI TF-X fighter, TR Motor recently signed a contract for its development.

Please read my posts in detail and more carefully!

 

[Blank1]

Meanwhile!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364566474975764483

 

[Foulgrim]

I

Please read my posts in detail and more carefully!

I read your comment, but there is no logic in discussing the purchase of Russian fighter jets without being willing to buy them. You will not have a transfer of know-how from Russia if you do not buy the specific fighter jets. Also, no country that produces a weapons system opens a production plant in a third country when it is not interested in acquiring it! This has never happened anywhere. If something like this happens it will be a global originality.

 

[Yasar_TR]

I read your comment, but there is no logic in discussing the purchase of Russian fighter jets without being willing to buy them. You will not have a transfer of know-how from Russia if you do not buy the specific fighter jets. Also, no country that produces a weapons system opens a production plant in a third country when it is not interested in acquiring it! This has never happened anywhere. If something like this happens it will be a global originality.

Then you do not get what I am saying! You are thinking too simple!
Russians are the ones that want to sell them. It doesn’t hurt to hear them.
It also leaves doors open. Because they are not going to agree to our conditions 100%, the discussions mat be prolonged until we know where we stand with the west and USA!
Everything has a price. Even TOT! This need not be pure cash! Do not have presumptions. Where do I say that we will tell them we are not buying your planes but we are expecting TOT? Again please read my posts properly!