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Which proxies do the Indians use,cant think of any?Interesting discussion on the use of proxies, deciet, killing and deception by Indian RAW and Pakistan's ISI.
None,we used only LTTE&mukti back In old days rest are speculation of Pakistan without proof.Which proxies do the Indians use,cant think of any?
He meant IkhwanisWhich proxies do the Indians use,cant think of any?
They weren't proxies ,our people in our soil aren't proxies .He meant Ikhwanis
Pakistan has faced more blowback because what it has indulged in isn't just spycraft ; it has crossed the line multiple times to directly be a state sponsor of terrorism in India. That's why it finds itself on the FATF grey list.Clearly non of you bothered to listen to the link. India is kneed deep in use of proxies, exactly in equal measure as Pakistan so don't play that "we don't do" card.
When I get time I will list the contents of the link. The only essential differance is India has managed to build a narrative of innocence. The facts are both countries use proxies.
Sure, Pakistan has faced more blowback because of the geography and Afghanistan.
You people really live in a altered reality. First you even deny India ever engages indulges in proxy wars. Then when that position becomes untenable you jump on to the next branch.Pakistan has faced more blowback because what it has indulged in isn't just spycraft ; it has crossed the line multiple times to directly be a state sponsor of terrorism in India. That's why it finds itself on the FATF grey list.
That's world of spycraft my boy , their is nothing dirty or pure in it , it's mere buisness .The take away from the OP is India and Pakistan equally indulged in proxy wars, yes equally. However India was more succesful in masking this effort and built up a benign narrative. Other that both are as dirty.
When did I deny it? Don't lie.You people really live in a altered reality. First you even deny India ever engages indulges in proxy wars. Then when that position becomes untenable you jump on to the next branch.
India has actually been involved in more, yes more proxy driven terrorism then Pakistan. Just off my head, in Bangla 1971, Sri Lanka 1980s and inside Pakistan.
The only real blowback Pakistan has faced is from the Afghan imroglio and even that is because of the convergence of western interests which brought global limelight. In the west most of the time they don't give a flying frigg if 3rd worlders are being blown away. However if it begins to effect western people then it turns into global issue.
Because of geography and the Islamism which mutated from the Middle Eastern conflicts in Palestine - which the west is deeply involved Pakistan got sucked into it. Had it been Hindu Tamils wasting people with suicide squads or Mukhto Bangla terrorists both financed, supplied by India nobody in the west would give a toss.
You are right but he actually mean Ikhwanis and coupta dint even counterd thatThey weren't proxies ,our people in our soil aren't proxies .
Pakistan play this dirty game as this is last resort for them and it burns them bad too .
We haven't done anything like that yet
The difference between use of proxies by India and Pakistan , Pakistan becoem epicentre of global proxies from PLO to Al-Queda all found support and solace inside Pakistan , on the other hand in India they are pretty controlled in what they do . I love the Psych games . Let me put one example.None,we used only LTTE&mukti back In old days rest are speculation of Pakistan without proof.
R&AW then was one of most competent intelligence agency until a stupid PM came and told about all the operations to pak PM,and numerous other measures were took to destroy the agency.
I literally agree with you , R&AW might have hit teams in 80's and they run some low grade insurgency in Pakistani Punjab in 80's but thats it . Their way to achieve things is very different from ISI's .ISI concentrates its operations more on kinetic actions through religious fundamentalists. ISI hardly has any industrial and political espionage footprint on the world stage. We are only limited to rag tag organizations. It is also the reason why its activities are more public. They did do a commendable job in the bosniyan war but that was the end of their political arm, since the early 90s they moved their focus to sabotaging Kashmir rather than increasing Pakistans political & economic footprint.
RAW on the other hand has been designed to perform industrial espionage and political sabotages. Political de-throwning in srilanka, Maldives, Nepal & certain back channel deals with assad gov are few of the recent operations. If you go back in time the industrial espionage on a British supplier of PA to buy winter clothing before the Siachen glacier was done by RAW. Some of the more interesting operations was disappearing a Norwegian ship carrying heavy water, assisting Americans in Chili coup d'état and extracting compromised Pakistan general from islamabad for the americas in 2009.
Those who know the the real capabilities of either organizations have a clear choice of whom to approach in time of need.
Probably ask @Paro for more operations if he is around. He spent a lot of time skimming archives back in the day.
I am still wondering if to believe him or not as per the author :
1) Kulbhushan Jadhav was noy an Intelligence Officer , how may Pakistanis will agree to that .
2) Fat bureaucratic Organization like R&AW can move from Afghanistan to Peshawar and Quetta.
3) I am not able to decide whether to laugh or cry when he said Indian officers went and settled in POK
4) He claimed R&AW has infiltrated in the LET and other grps.
Biggest joke is R&AW can use proxies LoL
The fact is ISI is far superior then R&AW and R&AW sucks in very very basic things major failures KArgil infiltration , Chinese infiltration in Bhutan and list is long , while ISI has bled India from 2002 to 2014 , Indian Mujahiddin was the best thought creation , Indian agencies sucked even to figure out who they were .......
I still believe IB is doing far better job then R&AW
@Nilgiri check this out
J.N: Ever put your life in another man's hands, ask him to put his life in yours?
T.C: No, sir.
J.N: We follow orders, son. We follow orders or people die. It's that simple. Are we clear?