Three stabbed to death in Nice "terror" attack.

[Sinan]

The president of "Barakacity" which was dissolved,asks Erdogan for political asylum,citing his safety (and his team) is at risk in France.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321452792373018627

As far as i understood, he is leader of a charity group which have been closed down and receiving death threats.

 

[Ryder]

If you want to know how ridiculous takfiris are they just declared Khabib Numandegov as a murtad because he fight in UFC and takes ruling from them

 

[Nilgiri]

they wont France is hypocrite the claim to support secularism but supply Saudi and Gulf States with advanced weaponry

Every country is a hypocrite in foreign relations in the end...especially when it has the sizeable weapons industrial capability.

But there are different levels to hypocrisy in general.

For argument sake and going to foreign affairs first, let us say France does not sell any kind of weapon to Saudi Arabia....on account of its actions in Yemen just as one example.

Is the objective to stop say Yemeni civilians from dieing?

If so what stops Saudi Arabia from importing say half-the-quality weapons in double the volume from China (to get the same power level to exert)?

Will that route lead to fewer Yemenis dieing? Every other example is like this one in the end.

France having not sold weapons for it, would still see the same results...that too by not coming in and intervening to stop the Yemenis from dieing....blood is spilled by inaction right?

So should there be neo-con style intervention and govt-overthrowing for any humans right abuse in foreign countries? You see this is a can of worms argument in the end.

But we can look at domestic policy/system for finding the key differences in the root setup.

France actually has due process and a constitution that is implemented well.

Rule of law with respect to ensuring individual citizen rights is sacrosanct.

Now compare this to a country that has provably (satellite intel that any muslim country can request to verify..to show the sizeable facilities that didnt exist just a few years before) imprisoned 1 million muslims (own citizens) and doing whos knows what with them in the end.

How many muslims in the world are calling for boycott of that country with such an evil totalitarian govt? How many are burning effigies of its leader?

How many more times angered should a Muslim be at it in first place? 1 million (action taken upon) compared to 1 Macron (words).

Surely there must be consistency in approach here? Or do you meet some stated hypocrisy with far greater hypocrisy from your own side?

France has due process for rule of law and individual rights enshrined at the individual level.

Will it ever incarcerate the whole community for actions of a few (that PRC has done so using its stabbing incidents it claimed happened to spur it among other things).

Anyone here knows what happens in PRC when you go to one of its court with a copy of PRC constitution in hand and point out the individual rights charter and say where it is being violated? Anyone know what happened to the PRC lawyer group that last studied into it some 15 years back (even before Xi appeared on the scene)?

This is all part of the reason I find this targetting of France here and elsewhere quite unfair and grossly hypocritical than anything people can level towards Macron (and French constitutional basis)

 

[Costin84]

Every country is a hypocrite in foreign relations in the end...especially when it has the sizeable weapons industrial capability.

But there are different levels to hypocrisy in general.

For argument sake and going to foreign affairs first, let us say France does not sell any kind of weapon to Saudi Arabia....on account of its actions in Yemen just as one example.

Is the objective to stop say Yemeni civilians from dieing?

If so what stops Saudi Arabia from importing say half-the-quality weapons in double the volume from China (to get the same power level to exert)?

Will that route lead to fewer Yemenis dieing? Every other example is like this one in the end.

France having not sold weapons for it, would still see the same results...that too by not coming in and intervening to stop the Yemenis from dieing....blood is spilled by inaction right?

So should there be neo-con style intervention and govt-overthrowing for any humans right abuse in foreign countries? You see this is a can of worms argument in the end.

But we can look at domestic policy/system for finding the key differences in the root setup.

France actually has due process and a constitution that is implemented well.

Rule of law with respect to ensuring individual citizen rights is sacrosanct.

Now compare this to a country that has provably (satellite intel that any muslim country can request to verify..to show the sizeable facilities that didnt exist just a few years before) imprisoned 1 million muslims (own citizens) and doing whos knows what with them in the end.

How many muslims in the world are calling for boycott of that country with such an evil totalitarian govt? How many are burning effigies of its leader?

How many more times angered should a Muslim be at it in first place? 1 million (action taken upon) compared to 1 Macron (words).

Surely there must be consistency in approach here? Or do you meet some stated hypocrisy with far greater hypocrisy from your own side?

France has due process for rule of law and individual rights enshrined at the individual level.

Will it ever incarcerate the whole community for actions of a few (that PRC has done so using its stabbing incidents it claimed happened to spur it among other things).

Anyone here knows what happens in PRC when you go to one of its court with a copy of PRC constitution in hand and point out the individual rights charter and say where it is being violated? Anyone know what happened to the PRC lawyer group that last studied into it some 15 years back (even before Xi appeared on the scene)?

This is all part of the reason I find this targetting of France here and elsewhere quite unfair and grossly hypocritical than anything people can level towards Macron (and French constitutional basis)

Turkey markets its own defence products as sanction free hardware...pointing fingers at Western suppliers is hypocrisy of the highest order.

Why Erdogan and Imran Khan are knowing accomplices of the terror attacks in France....very good article

....

 

[Costin84]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ha...critical-war-on-anti-muslim-offense-1.9268714

 

[rainmaker]

Turkey markets its own defence products as sanction free hardware...pointing fingers at Western suppliers is hypocrisy of the highest order.

Leave aside the "hypocrisy" angle.

I think the world must understand a basic fact that the Wahhabi KSA is totally UNLIKE any other country. Every single country that allows Arab influence to flow inside it in the form of mosques, madrasas, preaching groups and scholarships for clerics training - will undoubtedly get repaid in the form of bombings, vehicle attacks, stabbings and beheadings. It happened in Pakistan. It happened in Afghanistan. It happened in Bangladesh, in Indonesia, and most recently, in Sri Lanka.

Relations with KSA is totally unlike relations with, say, China or Venezuela or Cuba, in that relations with those non-liberal countries might be "hypocrisy" but won't result in your citizens being randomly stabbed, bombed and run over every few weeks.

This is why France (and the rest of the world) should make a special exception for Wahhabi Gulf Kingdoms - and cut off every single type of influence from these pernicious countries and societies. Look at any Gulf-linked organization or person with the deepest suspicion.

 

[Costin84]

Leave aside the "hypocrisy" angle.

I think the world must understand a basic fact that the Wahhabi KSA is totally UNLIKE any other country. Every single country that allows Arab influence to flow inside it in the form of mosques, madrasas, preaching groups and scholarships for clerics training - will undoubtedly get repaid in the form of bombings, vehicle attacks, stabbings and beheadings. It happened in Pakistan. It happened in Afghanistan. It happened in Bangladesh, in Indonesia, and most recently, in Sri Lanka.

Relations with KSA is totally unlike relations with, say, China or Venezuela or Cuba, in that relations with those non-liberal countries might be "hypocrisy" but won't result in your citizens being randomly stabbed, bombed and run over every few weeks.

This is why France (and the rest of the world) should make a special exception for Wahhabi Gulf Kingdoms - and cut off every single type of influence from these pernicious countries and societies. Look at any Gulf-linked organization or person with the deepest suspicion.

Agreed on denying their influence on religious teaching outside of Saudi Arabia but not on the export of weapons as they would readily be supplied by China or Russia

 

[Nilgiri]

Turkey markets its own defence products as sanction free hardware...pointing fingers at Western suppliers is hypocrisy of the highest order.

Honestly I think every major country fingers are bloodied and have hypocrisy in the end when it comes to foreign affairs and weapons trade and such things.

Selling weapons to another, knowing it is to be used on yet another....has millenia of precedent now. Maybe it has become more visceral because of industrial proportions of slaughter that can be done....but then again human population has exploded too....so the hypocrisy has always been the same % intensity all things considered overall...especially when nearly any country is in powerful position to make such export offer decisions.

I would not single out Turkey, France, US, USSR, China, UK etc etc on that stuff too much....just their raw volumes are different given their population sizes and potential. What would a billion population France or US look like compared to a 60 million population China thats highly developed? etc...all combos and hypitheticals like that end up looking fairly similar....humans are pretty transactional creatures once matters are outside the local tribe/herd/setup.

But its how things are run inside that local setup that I do compare and reference a lot w.r.t these topics. A country-at-large must hold itself highly responsible towards its people, its citizens...at the smallest unit (individual) that makes up the country in first place.

This is where certain countries fall very short (collectivized actions and punishments)....and all those that are in favour of fairness and consistency must prioritise on calling those out when such abuse runs well past all semblance of a civilised red line....compared to countries with full faith in due process.

I do not agree with Macron on one thing though when he asserts Islam is in crisis everywhere in world.

TBH, that is something for Islamic world to figure out in their countries.

Some places are doing well on it, others are not doing well...that is for them to reference as they see fit and address as they see fit.

What is in crisis is the domestic issues for Macron....France must introspect its liberal setup that got itself into a number of problems now....economic, political and societal. Hyper-liberalism and neo-liberalism is the major crisis in western world. This can be done at same time while not compromising on your fundamental setup and identity. Lot of people conflate everything as black and white zero sum matter.

 

[Test7]

Acording to the script,

After this attack, the terrorists fled to Turkey in a way... France has requested are to be delivered to France of these terrorists, but Turkey refused. These terrorists held demonstrations in important squares, displayed banners and chanted slogans in Turkey. The French, who lost their mother, wife or child in terrorist attacks, saw these terrorists on TV (Becasue this scenario is very familiar to me).

In this scenario;

If you were a French, After seeing that these terrorists live freely in Turkey, what would you think about Turkey?

As we always say. Terrorist is terrorist. It has no race, religion or color,etc...

 

[guest12]

Acording to the script,

After this attack, the terrorists fled to Turkey in a way... France has requested are to be delivered to France of these terrorists, but Turkey refused. These terrorists held demonstrations in important squares, displayed banners and chanted slogans in Turkey. The French, who lost their mother, wife or child in terrorist attacks, saw these terrorists on TV (Becasue this scenario is very familiar to me).

In this scenario;

If you were a French, After seeing that these terrorists live freely in Turkey, what would you think about Turkey?

As we always say. Terrorist is terrorist. It has no race, religion or color,etc...

You really shouldnt use terrorist term for these poor young men.Things escalated to this point because amount of state sponsored white supremachist discrimination policies these young men gone throughout their life and all for their black and muslim lineage.Turning a blind eye to this reality and simply calling them terrorists would be falling for the trap of white supremashist politicians like Macron.If we allow populist politicians like Macron to plant seeds of hatred in our hearts things will only grew darker , before its too late white elephant in the room needs to be adressed.Today there is a very big white supremacy problem wihtin many Western Europen countries.In the past those groups were simply lone wolves but under the leadership populist politicians like Macron who use white supremacy as a tool they start to became maimstream and accepted openly.Hence the results:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/jkno88

But all hope is not lost we know majority of enlightened French society know very well importance of respecting differences and allowing Macron to plant seeds of hatred into them as they witnessed horrors of Nazi Germany firsthand.With hand to hand with progressive part of French society we can stop Macron's neo-nazi policies before its too late.

 

[rainmaker]

You really shouldnt use terrorist term for these poor young man.Things escalated to this point because amount of state sponsored white supremachist discrimination policies these young man gone through and all for their black and muslim lineage

So why don't non-Salafis who are victims of discrimination blow up random civilians and cut off heads of random innocent civilians all the time?

Why do Salafis kill and behead and bomb others in the Arab world? In Pakistan? In Africa? Are they suffering from discrimination too?

 

[Xenon54]

There are currently demonstrations in Nice with people shouting « islam out of Europe ».

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1321933451927425024

Its a shame how Macron is using the situation to his own benefit and opening a can of worms thats all too familiar in various places throught the history.
His populist narrative is taking a dangerous path yet ironically he would be the first one to open his mouth if Erdogan did the same remarks about Christians living in Turkey.
Honestly, im so glad to live in a country where the politicians are sane and actually care about the population.

 

[Null/Void]

Its a shame how Macron is using the situation to his own benefit and opening a can of worms thats all too familiar in various places throught the history.
His populist narrative is taking a dangerous path yet ironically he would be the first one to open his mouth if Erdogan did the same remarks about Christians living in Turkey.
Honestly, im so glad to live in a country where the politicians are sane and actually care about the population.

Its part of the reason I am "disillusioned" with liberal democracy whats use of it when you have to pander to different groups to get elected and cant satisfy them

 

[Xenon54]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ha...critical-war-on-anti-muslim-offense-1.9268714

Lol, French president fuels a conflict in his own country, cant guarantee security for its population but its somehow Turkish and Pakistani presidents who are to be blamed...
You guys are good at pointing fingers gotta give you that.

 

[Costin84]

Lol, French president fuels a conflict in his own country, cant guarantee security for its population but its somehow Turkish and Pakistani presidents who are to be blamed...
You guys are good at pointing fingers gotta give you that.

Erdogan has fueled the fire in his desire to assume the mantle of Caliph. Macron has only stated known facts, these things are well knowned but European political elites were to coward to call a spade a spade. I see nothing wrong in Macron s statement, in fact he is 100 % right.

 

[Xenon54]

Its part of the reason I am "disillusioned" with liberal democracy whats use of it when you have to pander to different groups to get elected and cant satisfy them

Switzerland is also a democracy but one that actually works, you know Switzerland has not a President in traditional sense but its 7 people ruling the country with 2:2:2:1 concordance between the strongest parties, this system makes sure that no populist/extremist/one man can rule the country and every fraction has equal power.
We once had someone in office who was like a moderate Macron but he got voted out pretty quick by the parliament.

 

[Null/Void]

Switzerland is also a democracy but one that actually works, you know Switzerland has not a President in traditional sense but its 7 people ruling the country with 2:2:2:1 concordance between the strongest parties, this system makes sure that no populist/extremist/one man can rule the country and every fraction has equal power.
We once had someone in office who was like a moderate Macron but he got voted out pretty quick by the parliament.

I guess the Swiss are the most level headed of Western Europeans I am critical of both left wing and right wing populists in general

 

[Azbaroj]

Can we all as Sunnis agree that Wahabis are scumbags??

Worst sect in our religion alongside the Ismaili Hashashins. Sometimes wish the Ottomans did not collapse they literally contained the Wahabi threat.

I dont believe wahabis are Sunnis they more like the Khawarij of the past except this time the Khawarij came with Oil money.

This extrime version of Islam is the root of all kinds of terrorism, ruthless beheading and darkisom.

 

[Xenon54]

Erdogan has fueled the fire in his desire to assume the mantle of Caliph. Macron has only stated known facts, these things are well knowned but European political elites were to coward to call a spade a spade. I see nothing wrong in Macron s statement, in fact he is 100 % right.

Is that the first terrorist attack triggered by some stupid cartoons in France? No.
Were the previous attacks also Erdogans fault? No.
Is he responsible for the youth in France? No.
Did Turkey fail to solve the extremist problem in France? Again no.

What happens in France is primarily French presidents responsibility, if he makes remarks that might trigger extremists for which his goverment failed to respond to, for decades now, then its 100% his own fault, it doesnt matter whether he says the truth or not but whether he did the right thing.
If you say you want to speak fact at any cost you are welcome to do it but then embrace the consequences instead of blaming others for it.

Besides if Erdogans words would have such a power then you would have Turks doing those attacks after the caricatures about him but strangely almost all of them are Arabs from ex French colonies, now ask yourself who is at fault here really.
Those extremists would have done what they did even if Erdogan didnt say anything.
As said you are good at pointing fingers but you point it towards the wrong direction but i dont blame you, knowing you for years now i can definitely tell you are among the target audience of Macron after all.

 

[rainmaker]

This terrorist attack and every other terrorist attack carried out by Salafis is the sole fault of the backward, intolerant, violent Salafi ideology.

Not Erdogan.
Not Macron.
Not cartoons.
Not colonialism.
Not discrimination.
Not invasions.

And one party - Saudi Arabia - has been pushing Salafism hard with its petrodollars all around the world.