Turkey expects to lay ground for Kanal Istanbul project in summer

[Nutuk]

It depends on what the investor want. If they are OK to hold the lease for a longer time and get the money from the Canal alone then no guaranties is an option. If there is a lack of investor interest in the project then the investors may want the return on investment in a shorter time in which case you need to take part of the risk and guaranties some revenue. At the end the profit will be commensurate with the risk they are taking.

Nope, unfortunately that is gullible thinking.

Back in the 80'ties, 90'ties Turgut Ozal came up with a "brilliant" investment plan (not so brilliant afterwards)

His idea was "yap islet devret", in this way he was hoping that investors would build invest in dams in South east Turkey, operate them for 20-25 years and hand over the dam to Turkey.

He was selling it as getting dams for "free". Sounds nice for the gullible, but it was not that way. Dams have the nasty habit of usefulness, in time sediment brought by stream / rain etc. etc. starts to fill that dam, until the dam is slipped full of sediment and becomes useless (this happens in about 25 years). To prevent this and to get rid of this sediment dams need to be build with a flush through (which is the expensive form of dam building), so all those investors started to build the cheaper form of dams without flush through.

So these companies came invested in dams got the government incentives etc. made their profit with electricity production and handed over the dead dams (unable to produce any energy anymore) to the state (ölü esegin posasi)


With the canal project we are heading towards a new dam issue, there is no well founded planning, no profit calculation, no useful life calculations for the canal. But we see all type of assumptions, will bring a lot of investments, will bring a lot of profit, captains will chose to pay instead of free passage.

Sorry but I want to see well cared, engineered plans that shows the usefulness of that canal, it is totally absent. And when empty promises sound to good to be true, it usually is!

 

[Zafer]

Nope, unfortunately that is gullible thinking.

Back in the 80'ties, 90'ties Turgut Ozal came up with a "brilliant" investment plan (not so brilliant afterwards)

His idea was "yap islet devret", in this way he was hoping that investors would build invest in dams in South east Turkey, operate them for 20-25 years and hand over the dam to Turkey.

He was selling it as getting dams for "free". Sounds nice for the gullible, but it was not that way. Dams have the nasty habit of usefulness, in time sediment brought by stream / rain etc. etc. starts to fill that dam, until the dam is slipped full of sediment and becomes useless (this happens in about 25 years). To prevent this and to get rid of this sediment dams need to be build with a flush through (which is the expensive form of dam building), so all those investors started to build the cheaper form of dams without flush through.

So these companies came invested in dams got the government incentives etc. made their profit with electricity production and handed over the dead dams (unable to produce any energy anymore) to the state (ölü esegin posasi)


With the canal project we are heading towards a new dam issue, there is no well founded planning, no profit calculation, no useful life calculations for the canal. But we see all type of assumptions, will bring a lot of investments, will bring a lot of profit, captains will chose to pay instead of free passage.

Sorry but I want to see well cared, engineered plans that shows the usefulness of that canal, it is totally absent. And when empty promises sound to good to be true, it usually is!

I see that you are not convinced, then, do you take bribes?

It is count down to the tenders, its happening this year.
If tenders don't turn up the required interest then a slow paced central budget funding could be applicable.

 

[Ryder]

History is being made

 

[Nutuk]

I see that you are not convinced, then, do you take bribes?

It is count down to the tenders, its happening this year.
If tenders don't turn up the required interest then a slow paced central budget funding could be applicable.

I truly hope I am the one wrong here, Turkey lost a lot with the "ben yaptim oldu" approach. Cos the gamble is with Turkey, and Turkey has not the luxury to dump her money in a bottomless pit.

 

[Zafer]

I truly hope I am the one wrong here, Turkey lost a lot with the "ben yaptim oldu" approach. Cos the gamble is with Turkey, and Turkey has not the luxury to dump her money in a bottomless pit.

No one will allow damage to Turkey.
There is always risk in every move we make but this is a very tolerable risk.

 

[Zafer]

Hulki Cevizoglu is talking.

Hulki Cevizoğlu'ndan muhalefeti çıldırtacak çıkış! "Kanal İstanbul’a evet diyen bir Atatürkçüyüm"

Bir televizyon kanalında canlı yayına katılan Hulki Cevizoğlu, “Ben Kanal İstanbul’a evet diyen bir Atatürkçüyüm.” ifadelerini kullanarak Kanal

video.haber7.com

 

[Nutuk]

Hulki Cevizoglu is talking.

Hulki Cevizoğlu'ndan muhalefeti çıldırtacak çıkış! "Kanal İstanbul’a evet diyen bir Atatürkçüyüm"

Bir televizyon kanalında canlı yayına katılan Hulki Cevizoğlu, “Ben Kanal İstanbul’a evet diyen bir Atatürkçüyüm.” ifadelerini kullanarak Kanal

video.haber7.com

I wish I could talk with Hulki Cevizoglu and tell him to his face all the BS he is talking about

- 1 He says nothing will happen when two sea waters meet eachother. Of course nothing will happen with the sea water but the canal will have salt water and that will mix and polute the sweet water in the area the canal is passing trough. One can only be a moron not to realize this.

- 2 His second BS, he is twisting the Montreux agreement arguing that the canal is not against Montreux. Nobody is claiming the canal is against Montreux, and that is the core of the problem because it means the Bosphorus will remain a free open gate and it makes no sense to make a canal where you ask transit fee.

- 3 Third BS: He claims that it is BS that Turkey doesn't get transit fee from the Bosphorus and Dardanelles (agree completely that is a BS), But why would you need a canal to ask transit fee, ask it now if you can.



He summons all kinds of BS arguments but does not tell have a paid canal next to a free passage will generate money

 

[Nutuk]

This is a very good writing explaining exactly why Canal Istanbul is an utopia, a money pit

'Boğazlar'dan geçiş için 3 bin 400 dolar veren gemilerden Kanal İstanbul’da 100 bin doları nasıl alacaksınız?'

Ulaştırma ve Altyapı Bakanı Cahit Turhan, Anadolu Ajansı'na Kanal İstanbul'la ilgili önemli açıklamalarda bulundu. Turhan, Kanal İstanbul’dan günde 185 gemi geçirilebileceğini ve Boğaz’dan şu anda ancak 118-125 gemi geçirilebildiğini iddia etti. Bakan Turhan açıklamasında yine Kanal İstanbul’un...

www.indyturk.com

 

[Saithan]

Don't waste your time on discussing this guys. AKP and RTE supporters will not change their minds because they've invested everything they had into RTE. When he goes down you'll see even more wealth being moved abroad.

For the Blind, the one-eyed is the king.

 

[Zafer]

Don't waste your time on discussing this guys. AKP and RTE supporters will not change their minds because they've invested everything they had into RTE. When he goes down you'll see even more wealth being moved abroad.

For the Blind, the one-eyed is the king.

Any proof of what you claim or just bullshit as usual?

 

[Zafer]

This is a very good writing explaining exactly why Canal Istanbul is an utopia, a money pit

'Boğazlar'dan geçiş için 3 bin 400 dolar veren gemilerden Kanal İstanbul’da 100 bin doları nasıl alacaksınız?'

Ulaştırma ve Altyapı Bakanı Cahit Turhan, Anadolu Ajansı'na Kanal İstanbul'la ilgili önemli açıklamalarda bulundu. Turhan, Kanal İstanbul’dan günde 185 gemi geçirilebileceğini ve Boğaz’dan şu anda ancak 118-125 gemi geçirilebildiğini iddia etti. Bakan Turhan açıklamasında yine Kanal İstanbul’un...

www.indyturk.com

I wonder how this dude came up with a yearly running cost of $1bn for the Canal Istanbul comparing with the Panama Canal. Panama Canal is a stepped canal with elevation difference between two ends and ships have to get in locks to be raised and pulled along by locomotives. This requires machinery and personnel costs. How will the Canal Istanbul generate such costs with free flowing waters and ships moving under their own power at all times?

And he never touched how long ships wait for the passage. Obviously he is just fooling the fools.

 

[Zafer]

Thailand is considering their own canal.

 

[Nutuk]

That canal is cutting off 1200km, what would Istanbul canal cut off?

+ it would be next to a free passage.

People come do not take the free door, come here pass through my canal and pay me $100k cos you are idiots and I am smart!

 

[Zafer]

That canal is cutting off 1200km, what would Istanbul canal cut off?

+ it would be next to a free passage.

People come do not take the free door, come here pass through my canal and pay me $100k cos you are idiots and I am smart!

Canal Istanbul is cutting waiting time.

 

[Nutuk]

Canal Istanbul is cutting waiting time.

Lol as if there are long queues on both sides of the Bosphorus.

Leave alone the 40,000 ships of now, even 10 years ago when it was 50,000 ships there were no queues.

Can you show any statistic for waiting times, any!

 

[Zafer]

Lol as if there are long queues on both sides of the Bosphorus.

Leave alone the 40,000 ships of now, even 10 years ago when it was 50,000 ships there were no queues.

Can you show any statistic for waiting times, any!

14-30 hours was cited depending on the size of ship.

 

[Ryder]

Don't waste your time on discussing this guys. AKP and RTE supporters will not change their minds because they've invested everything they had into RTE. When he goes down you'll see even more wealth being moved abroad.

For the Blind, the one-eyed is the king.

Opposition have not really given any proper arguments because the project is headed by Erdogan they oppose it.

Both sides cant even look at the factors of the canal from its pros and cons instead has become a party issue of Erdogan vs opposition. Akp vs party. Its a football team clash nothing more.

Canal Istanbul, Suez Canal and the Don Volga canal have been in talks for centuries but have not materialised due to various factors.

I mean even Ecevit flirted with the idea of Istanbul having a canal.

What Erdogan has proposed is nothing new its been talked for ages just has never materialised because it would get talked about then shelved only to come up again and again until somebody decided it should become a reality.

Ambitious project given todays Turkey economic problems the canal may not be viable. Canal projects usually end up in bankruptcy lets not forget other countries will participate or private companies.

We all know Turkey is not going to do it itself. You have rumours of China and Qatar willing to give funding for the canal project. I find that a red flag if a private company does it they can easily effectively own it.

 

[Zafer]

Opposition have not really given any proper arguments because the project is headed by Erdogan they oppose it.

Both sides cant even look at the factors of the canal from its pros and cons instead has become a party issue of Erdogan vs opposition. Akp vs party. Its a football team clash nothing more.

Canal Istanbul, Suez Canal and the Don Volga canal have been in talks for centuries but have not materialised due to various factors.

I mean even Ecevit flirted with the idea of Istanbul having a canal.

What Erdogan has proposed is nothing new its been talked for ages just has never materialised because it would get talked about then shelved only to come up again and again until somebody decided it should become a reality.

Ambitious project given todays Turkey economic problems the canal may not be viable. Canal projects usually end up in bankruptcy lets not forget other countries will participate or private companies.

We all know Turkey is not going to do it itself. You have rumours of China and Qatar willing to give funding for the canal project. I find that a red flag if a private company does it they can easily effectively own it.

No contractor is ever stronger than the Turkish government in Turkey. No one can have an upperhand about Canal Istanbul over the Turkish government and effectively own it.

Particularly under Erdoğan's rule the government actually rules. It is now or never can this project be started.
Even other canal projects can be started like a canal from İzmit Bay to the black Sea or one crossing from the Sea of Marmara to the Bay of Saros can be considered if found viable. I wouldn't leave any stone unturned under Erdoğan government as we can make things happen now.

 

[Nutuk]

14-30 hours was cited depending on the size of ship.

Source?

 

[Dante80]

For shipping, maritime and freight companies, speed is not of the essence for the vast majority of commodities hauled to and from the Black Sea. Cost is. This trend has been going on for a couple of decades now, to the point that freight ships today are traveling at a lot lower speeds than they did 20 years ago. Moreover, as time goes on Low carbon maritime transport and Slow Steaming is becoming more of the norm. In other words, I don't think anyone would be convinced in this particular situation to forgo the treaty enforced free passage route for a heavily paid alternative to save that miniscule amount of time. Time is money, but not nearly enough in this instance to make the endeavor bear fruit.

For this to work, you would have to restrict free passage via the straits, and frankly hell would freeze over before one of the signatories agrees to that, for obvious reasons (people might want to read how the Montreaux convention came to be, and what was the legal status of the straits after the Lausanne Treaty). Therefore, the public monies required for such a venture would be better spent - almost anywhere - else.