TR Turkish Air Forces|News & Discussion

Rooxbar

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Getting along with US means bending over for YPG and Israel for their needs, are you okay with that for f110 engine?

What is your source for Chinese engines creating chaos? Are you aware of how good WS Variants of Chinese engines are? especially the WS-15 which is considered a better engine than F22 engine.

None is denying on how good the American engines are in terms of reliability and longevity but something "better" that comes with a lot of headache sometimes is not better.
We didn't have any inherent problems with Israel. If it wasn't for the quarter-century long rule of an Islamist party and the mass of propaganda that goes with it, which has turned a good portion of our population into having this delusions of grandeur and seeing themselves as saviours of every down-trodden people around the world or something (incl. Palestinians), a different admin could promise a new era and a new outlook regarding Israel (which due to the aforementioned popular zeal will not be politically astute now) and strike a deal with Israelis to get a concession out of them regarding YPG, but that kind of deal you can make if you have a good hand, which I'm not sure we do. Iran, for instance, can make that kind of deal with a change of regime if the new ones are not the current alternatives because they're merely servants (a la Juan Guaido) and will give up all their aces, in the form of Hezbollah and other proxies and influences, without getting anything for it.
 

Rooxbar

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If you think that the reason for us being getting sanctioned and getting kicked out of f35 program is due to S-400, you are so wrong. Look when exactly we got sanctioned and since when Israel was lobbying to kick us out of F35 program, it dates back to 2008. S-400 was only an excuse, the real deal comes from operations in Syria, they don't want the Turkish presence in Syria.
This myth which "experts" with sticks in their hands on t.v. have propagated for some time, has been debunked several times in these forums.
 

Zoth

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@Zoth We can’t go with Chinese engines because our jets were designed around American ones. You build an aircraft around an engine, not the other way around. And do you understand how difficult, laborious and costly it will be to change our maintenance infrastructure (skills of the maintenance staff, spares, tools, …) to accommodate Chinese engines ?
I'm well aware of this but the topic is not this, you guys are taking my point out of topic, if that was any problem we wouldn't even consider buying Eurofighters in the first place.

I'm repeating my point again, incase of Americans not giving us engines, what are we going to do? Best case scenario for TF35K entering into serial production is around 2028-2030 which we still don't know yet, are we going to delay all our flights of Kaan until then?

I don't even want to talk about Hurjet, officially we don't even have any plan for domestic engine for it.

Again, i want to point out that i'm also in favor of American engines but if those are going to come to us with "buts" and "ifs" and with multiple headaches, or not at all, what is our alternative?
 

Zoth

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We didn't have any inherent problems with Israel. If it wasn't for the quarter-century long rule of an Islamist party and the mass of propaganda that goes with it, which has turned a good portion of our population into having this delusions of grandeur and seeing themselves as saviours of every down-trodden people around the world or something (incl. Palestinians), a different admin could promise a new era and a new outlook regarding Israel (which due to the aforementioned popular zeal will not be politically astute now) and strike a deal with Israelis to get a concession out of them regarding YPG, but that kind of deal you can make if you have a good hand, which I'm not sure we do. Iran, for instance, can make that kind of deal with a change of regime if the new ones are not the current alternatives because they're merely servants (a la Juan Guaido) and will give up all their aces, in the form of Hezbollah and other proxies and influences, without getting anything for it.
Again, while you are right about how we came to this situation, it dosn't really matter, we have a reality in front of us that won't change in close future, and we have to act according to it. Even if we change our minds, will Israel back out from supporting YPG after this long?
 

Zoth

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This myth which "experts" with sticks in their hands on t.v. have propagated for some time, has been debunked several times in these forums.
I don't know, i also thought the same but in a recent video of Kaner Kurt, mr. Özgür Ekşi(founder of TurDef) talked about this issue with a very detailed infrormation, which explains a lot of stuff of what happened in the background. I personally value his views on these topics, if you are interested i'm leaving a timestamped link of where he mentions this issue.

 

Rooxbar

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I don't know, i also thought the same but in a recent video of Kaner Kurt, mr. Özgür Ekşi(founder of TurDef) talked about this issue with a very detailed infrormation, which explains a lot of stuff of what happened in the background. I personally value his views on these topics, if you are interested i'm leaving a timestamped link of where he mentions this issue.

I have listened to that; what I remember from it was just generic speculation of the sort I alluded to. He's also just a journalist. The first batch of 6 F-35s were effectively and legally delivered to us, 13 pilots and 325 maintenance personnel went to U.S. and were in training for about 1 year before the S-400 crisis broke out and they flew the planes many times. Now let the oklavalı dumbasses square that circle.



 

Zoth

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I have listened to that; what I remember from it was just generic speculation of the sort I alluded to. He's also just a journalist. The first batch of 6 F-35s were effectively and legally delivered to us, 13 pilots and 325 maintenance personnel went to U.S. and were in training for about 1 year before the S-400 crisis broke out and they flew the planes many times. Now let the oklavalı dumbasses square that circle.



Well as i said before too S-400 has became the excuse to kick us out, i'm not denying that it was our mistake to do such thing, all i'm trying to say is that if the only problem were S-400, we could've already solved it by now.

He mentions something very important too, "despite the lobbies pressure, the American MIC didin't want to remove Turkey from the program" which is kind of true. Despite all the issues, GE and LM still wants to do business with us.
 

dBSPL

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Does the EF with TAF roundel look great on you too, or is it purely psychological?

effm1.JPG

fmm2.JPG

(Şu anlaşmayı sağ salim tamamlasak da biraz rahatlasak)
 

Khagan1923

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I have listened to that; what I remember from it was just generic speculation of the sort I alluded to. He's also just a journalist. The first batch of 6 F-35s were effectively and legally delivered to us, 13 pilots and 325 maintenance personnel went to U.S. and were in training for about 1 year before the S-400 crisis broke out and they flew the planes many times. Now let the oklavalı dumbasses square that circle.




In the same video he also gets pushback from Kozan Erkan and then he goes on to say that he "knows" because an US Military official or bureaucrat told him. Yeah no. The whole reason we never got our F-35s were because of the purchase of S-400. I don't like how people are trying to disort the past to fit their narratives.

The US has repeatedly stated that if Türkiye gets rid of the S-400 it will be welcomed back to the F-35 program. If they had no interest in Türkiye having those planes they would say under no circumstances will it happen. Not like the S-400 is being used or is even useful to us. It is rotting away in an warehouse on an Air Force base.

Pretty sure our pilots and maintance personnel were in the US right up until the S-400 touched Turkish soil.

Also funnily enough he states towards the end if Türkiye can they should get at least 20 F-35s because they will be an immense boon to the Air Force in getting used to how to operate an 5th gen fighter and plan your operations around it.


Let's see how things evolve under Trump but I still expect our Air Force to return to the F-35 program of course depending on how things go with the new administration.
 

Khagan1923

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Does the EF with TAF roundel look great on you too, or is it purely psychological?

View attachment 72104
View attachment 72105
(Şu anlaşmayı sağ salim tamamlasak da biraz rahatlasak)

Sadly with snap elections happening in February here this deal will be delayed until then and then depending on the outcome it could fall apart. I do not think that the SPD and Scholz want to have "sold Türkiye Eurofighters" hanging around their neck during the election.
 

Zoth

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In the same video he also gets pushback from Kozan Erkan and then he goes on to say that he "knows" because an US Military official or bureaucrat told him. Yeah no. The whole reason we never got our F-35s were because of the purchase of S-400. I don't like how people are trying to disort the past to fit their narratives.

The US has repeatedly stated that if Türkiye gets rid of the S-400 it will be welcomed back to the F-35 program. If they had no interest in Türkiye having those planes they would say under no circumstances will it happen. Not like the S-400 is being used or is even useful to us. It is rotting away in an warehouse on an Air Force base.

Pretty sure our pilots and maintance personnel were in the US right up until the S-400 touched Turkish soil.

Also funnily enough he states towards the end if Türkiye can they should get at least 20 F-35s because they will be an immense boon to the Air Force in getting used to how to operate an 5th gen fighter and plan your operations around it.


Let's see how things evolve under Trump but I still expect our Air Force to return to the F-35 program of course depending on how things go with the new administration.
I mean, i also support of us getting f35s but let's assume that the issue is indeed only S-400, why are we so stubborn on holding on these systems then? That's the part that i can't find any answer, is it purely political?
 

Khagan1923

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I mean, i also support of us getting f35s but let's assume that the issue is indeed only S-400, why are we so stubborn on holding on these systems then? That's the part that i can't find any answer, is it purely political?
Yes. There you have your answer. The purchase of the S-400 system in 2018 was made by the political "elite" without any input by the Military.

No Air Force in this world would choose and standalone Air Defence System it can't connect to its own Radar and AD network. Especially not 1 Regiment which doesn't even cover 20% of its demands.

Especially not against losing the most cutting edge fighter in the world, of which you have been a partner for the last 20 years. For which your firms were producing parts, for which you were integrating your missiles and bombs, for which your Cruise Missiles was gonna be advertised as the main CM to buy. You guys understand how much money our Firms lost? Türkiye was gonna be the MRO Hub for every single F-35 in the region.

Not only did we lose money, we lost knowledge the Air Force could have gained by operating an 5th gen aircraft for the last 6 years. We could have used our F-35 to patrol over Northern Syria deterring Russians, Iranians and Syrians from making a single move.
Our firms lost knowledge they could have gained by working on parts for an 5th gen aircraft.
Roketsan and Tübitak lost millions they could have made by having LM advertise SOM-J to dozens of countries, now all of those countries are buying NSM instead because there is no alternative.

And still people wanna make you believe the Air Force loves the S-400, the same S-400 that has been rotting away for years now in a warehouse on an Airbase. Same S-400 they saw get decimated and perform like crap in the use of the Russian Military. And we have the export version in standalone mode, you imagine you poorly our S-400 would perform :).

If the decision was up to the Military they would have dealt with this years ago.

No one in their right mind chooses that crap over the F-35.

And now they are afraid of looking like idiots and are afraid of pushback by the Russians if they try to get rid of the S-400. You better believe the Kremlin was laughing its ass off with how easy they tricked Türkiye into getting kicked off the program. No F-35 on its southern flank? And all they had to do was hand over a export S-400 AND they got paid 1,25 Billion dollars?
 

Sanchez

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India is not a member of NATO.
And Turkey isn't as important as India for US' future plans regarding Pacific. Neither is it the second biggest country on the planet.
S-400 steals F-35 data only when a member is in NATO?
Until the day India gets F-35s, this doesn't track.
 

Khagan1923

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S-400 steals F-35 data only when a member is in NATO?
US has never offered India the F-35 and probably will never offer it due to how close India is to Russia even now during the Ukraine War. Still US needs India to counter balance China in the region. So they play a delicate game with them.

LM had to offer India an costumized F-16 (F-21). Why no F-35? Also as others have mentioned India is not part of NATO.
 
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