Turkish Military Stance in Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean

[IC3M@N FX]

So, this?

Their range is 150 km though.

Yes i think this is the way to overhelm a Country with a modern Airdefence System . You Push the Airdefence System in Maximum Stress. But with a little bit bigger Booster you can reach much more Speed, altitude and Range.

How the Americans start their war with cruise missiles.
We should get something that is simply much more efficient in terms of the cost-benefit factor.
If we literally bombard a country with these bombs in key positions during the first strike and I mean in this case send hundreds of them, we can win air supremacy in the shortest possible time, the MALE drones would do the rest.
All the time only mass drone air strikes with laser guided bombs for 24 hours I guarantee you the enemy will be demolarized to the maximum he can do nothing without intact air defense.
See Armenia/Mountain Karabakh where we won air supremacy, they had absolutely not a second of a chance and literally ran away from Mount Karabakh because the drone strikes were so extreme.
The advantage would be even greater and more noticeable - we didn't even come close to breaking our ammunition reserves.

 

[Heartbang]

Yes i think this is the way to overhelm a Country with a modern Airdefence System . You Push the Airdefence System in Maximum Stress. But with a little bit bigger Booster you can reach much more Speed, altitude and Range.

How the Americans start their war with cruise missiles.
We should get something that is simply much more efficient in terms of the cost-benefit factor.
If we literally bombard a country with these bombs in key positions during the first strike and I mean in this case send hundreds of them, we can win air supremacy in the shortest possible time, the MALE drones would do the rest.
All the time only mass drone air strikes with laser guided bombs for 24 hours I guarantee you the enemy will be demolarized to the maximum he can do nothing without intact air defense.
See Armenia/Mountain Karabakh where we won air supremacy, they had absolutely not a second of a chance and literally ran away from Mount Karabakh because the drone strikes were so extreme.
The advantage would be even greater and more noticeable - we didn't even come close to breaking our ammunition reserves.

You can't achieve air supremacy with just GLSDB's. You have to know where all those air defences are.
Azerbaijan used AN-2 cropdusters as decoys to unveil Armenian S-300's. Then they used Israeli Harops on them. THEN they used TB2's.
Americans deploy a MASSIVE amount of ISR assets to know where to yeet those cruise missiles to. They even get help from CIA's OSINT and HUMINT efforts. All that before a single shot is even fired.
And even with those, in the end, it all comes to the airplanes you have.

 

[IC3M@N FX]

You can't achieve air supremacy with just GLSDB's. You have to know where all those air defences are.
Azerbaijan used AN-2 cropdusters as decoys to unveil Armenian S-300's. Then they used Israeli Harops on them. THEN they used TB2's.
Americans deploy a MASSIVE amount of ISR assets to know where to yeet those cruise missiles to. They even get help from CIA's OSINT and HUMINT efforts. All that before a single shot is even fired.
And even with those, in the end, it all comes to the airplanes you have.

How would you know that if it has never been used in a first strike?

That's a hypothetical question about how you could take out a modern air defense with completely new means, like in this case the glide bomb with a solid booster, by the sheer number of these bombs. It's not as if Turkey doesn't know where Greece has placed its fighter fleet to get a valuable target.

Turkey also has an intelligence service and, more importantly, spy satellites to identify these targets.

It is not a question of what conditions must be met in order to obtain a potential target.

We are assuming that this has already happened, and my mind game is simply what would happen if Turkey were to equip several vehicles with these launchers, these glide bombs, to fire them in the middle of the night from the Turkish coast to Greece.

And I'm talking here about hundreds, perhaps thousands of these bombs being fired simultaneously.

The number can be calculated to the extent that modern air defense systems can detect and disable them simultaneously, so let's just double or triple it.

It's not that the air defense systems can reload their missiles within seconds, they can only fire a certain number of missiles per station and that's it for some time.

They are forced to fire them or they will be caught one way or another.

Unlike modern cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and the like, these glide bombs would be just totally cheap to produce, and so you could send out a whole swarm of these bombs.

Remember, this is about the opening strike or first strike, what has to happen after that to keep up the pressure is not the subject of my hypothesis.

 

[Heartbang]

How would you know that if it has never been used in a first strike?

I never claimed that you can't use these to make the 1st strike. They are indeed an excellent weapon to use in such strikes.

Your mind and heart is in the right place. But you're looking at it a bit too shallow. Those glide bombs

1. Need up-to-date GPS coordinates to score a hit, since the target systems can be packed up and moved within mere minutes.
2. Need to also hit runways, aircraft hangars, fuel depots, and such similar targets.
3. Have to be actually enticing for those radars to lock and yeet a missile to. SDB's are quite stealthy.

In short, SDB spam good, but not enough.

I recommend you watch this simulated attack to an integrated air defense system, and study what it takes to dismantle such a system.

 

[BaburKhan]

There is no need for extra precautions,our missiles and subs are enough to cover the Mediterranean.

This Year the first Reis Class Submarine will enter in Service, others will join the coming Years. So far so good. Also Anka-3 will join next Year, inshallah.

What I really miss are sophisticatet ISR Capabillities like SAR Satelittes and high Altitude ISR UAV, similar like the MQ-4 Triton with ASELSAN SAR Pod. SAR Satelittes are very important and Göktürk- III is a have SAR Radar, but this Programm faced Delays. I read from Different Sources, some write it will be launched 2025 other from 2028.

On the example from a simluted Scenario were China use DF-21 against the USS Ronald Reagan, it will be clear how important SAR Satelittes are.

The other Scenario show how an high Altitude ISR UAV, the MQ-4 Triton provide Intelligence for the B-1 Bomber to track the chinese CSG.

Similar Scenarios can happen in the eastern Mediterran, exact locating and tracking decide if any attempt to strike an enemy CSG will be Successfull. No Matter if the Weapon of Choice will be a Submarine or a Tayfun ASBM.

 

[BaburKhan]

This news are from 2020, but still show the Threat of CSG in eastern Mediterran to Turkey. With Barbaros Coastal Defence Complex in Service and Tayfun ASBM with an likely Range up to 800 km, the Waters arround Cyprus are not safe like the Years before.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1224043543490154498

 

[Kartal1]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1778412505569919399

 

[BaburKhan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1778412505569919399

This Video looks like a Joke to me, through MTCR Brahmos export Variant Greece will aquire will have a limited Range up to 290 km, I doubt they can hit Ships in Mediterran from Limnos, like in this Video.

 

[Angry Turk !!!]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1778412505569919399

Delusional Indians, nothing new.

 

[DBdev]

A hypothetical question: let's say we were planning a first strike against Greece.

How could we do that by surprising them and taking out their air defense system

A single routine missile test or a disguised trade ship based EMP weapon could temporarily blind all radars, unprotected electronics to make way and improve the chances of our surprise attack. The fastest ballistic missiles we have will go first. A massive barrage will take out most critical targets like air defenses, F-35s, ships etc. Only then our subsonic assets will have some chance. Also, since they will have F-35s, we will not have air superiority to do what America does in these situations; DEAD. So trying to use anti radiation missiles, Kizilelma, TB2, KAAN etc. wouldn't work against F-35s and Patriots. This best case scenario of course still wouldn't stop, the rest of the world attacking us.

Without openly testing our hydrogen bomb beforehand, we will not be able to deter a devastating direct western reprisal. If we prove we have enough hydrogen bombs and a true nuclear triad, then we will be as safe against the west as the Russians are. Meaning crushing embargoes and a long war of attrition, with Greece getting unlimited conventional support without the west directly attacking us. But since we lack allies and oil resources or trillions unlike Russians, we will eventually lose despite doing everything else right militarily.

So it is best to stay friends with Greece if they allow us, by not being confrontational against us.

 

[Zafer]

A single routine missile test or a disguised trade ship based EMP weapon could temporarily blind all radars, unprotected electronics to make way and improve the chances of our surprise attack. The fastest ballistic missiles we have will go first. A massive barrage will take out most critical targets like air defenses, F-35s, ships etc. Only then our subsonic assets will have some chance. Also, since they will have F-35s, we will not have air superiority to do what America does in these situations; DEAD. So trying to use anti radiation missiles, Kizilelma, TB2, KAAN etc. wouldn't work against F-35s and Patriots. This best case scenario of course still wouldn't stop, the rest of the world attacking us.

Without openly testing our hydrogen bomb beforehand, we will not be able to deter a devastating direct western reprisal. If we prove we have enough hydrogen bombs and a true nuclear triad, then we will be as safe against the west as the Russians are. Meaning crushing embargoes and a long war of attrition, with Greece getting unlimited conventional support without the west directly attacking us. But since we lack allies and oil resources or trillions like Russians do, we will eventually lose despite doing everything else right militarily.

So it is best to stay friends with Greece if they allow us, by not being confrontational against us.

How is that we have no allies.

 

[DBdev]

How is that we have no allies.

Who will stand against entire world on our side if we attack Greece first? We may have allies now but they wouldn't be with us if we do a surprise attack as the OP suggests.

 

[Zafer]

Who will stand against entire world on our side if we attack Greece first? We may have allies now but they wouldn't be with us if we do a surprise attack as the OP suggests.

We don't attack without a pretext, we wait until Greece does madness. We start drilling our sees, Greece freaks out.

 

[Huelague]

How could we do that by surprising them and taking out their air defense system, that's just the first step, without firing the really good stuff first, e.g. cruise/ballistic missiles. In my plan, I want to force the Greeks to fire their air defense missiles and not be able to reload and aim them, even if they can take out multiple targets at once.

ADS are not active permanently. In a war scenario, we would “bling” them first. Before hitting them. Of course, blinding their ADS would give them the sign, we are coming.

 

[BaburKhan]

Post in thread 'Mavi Vatan (Blue Homeland)' https://defencehub.live/threads/mavi-vatan-blue-homeland.61/post-324276

I saw there was a Discussions in the "Propulsion System" Thread about a possible aatack on Greece. In the Maiv Vatan Thread I explained the Impotance for SAR Capabillity, for the further Development of the BM by a further stage for HGV, similar like DF-17.

 

[BaburKhan]

European countries grapple with internal politics over nuclear energy

Emmanuel Macron has championed the revival of France's nuclear program as a central focus of his second presidential term. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

France Talk about nuclaer Detterent for EU. I ask me, what would happen if a EU Country is in Progress to lose a conventional War ? Could the share nuclear Weapons, like NATO is doing with US B-61 Bombs in Europe ? There is also mutual Defence Pact between Greece and France !

If that what Macron say becomes reality, Turkey could need it's own Nukes !

 

[GoatsMilk]

European countries grapple with internal politics over nuclear energy

Emmanuel Macron has championed the revival of France's nuclear program as a central focus of his second presidential term. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

France Talk about nuclaer Detterent for EU. I ask me, what would happen if a EU Country is in Progress to lose a conventional War ? Could the share nuclear Weapons, like NATO is doing with US B-61 Bombs in Europe ? There is also mutual Defence Pact between Greece and France !

If that what Macron say becomes reality, Turkey could need it's own Nukes !

Turkiye has needed her own nukes for a very long time.

The Americans i think back in 64 when Turkey wanted to intervene in Cyprus to stop the genocide/illegal annexation of the island wrote a letter to Turkey basically saying, that if we intervene in cyprus and should the soviets attack us then NATO membership will not be upheld. Basically saying you get attacked by Russia, your on your own. Since then we have seen many instances where big powerful nations have threatened us with nukes, the most recent one being Russia when even Putin talked about using tactical nukes against us. Not to mention the europeans attitude when we downed a Russian jet.

If any nation needs nuclear weapons its Turkiye. No other nation has been and is threatened by as many nuclear armed nations at once then Turkiye. We need them not because we ever intend to use such things, but just to keep our enemies honest.

And a problem Turkiye is going to face, that as our domestic industry keeps rising our conventional might especially in the regions we are near to, will massively tip the scale in our favour, the last threat they have is nuclear threats.

 

[BaburKhan]

Turkiye has needed her own nukes for a very long time.

The Americans i think back in 64 when Turkey wanted to intervene in Cyprus to stop the genocide/illegal annexation of the island wrote a letter to Turkey basically saying, that if we intervene in cyprus and should the soviets attack us then NATO membership will not be upheld. Basically saying you get attacked by Russia, your on your own. Since then we have seen many instances where big powerful nations have threatened us with nukes, the most recent one being Russia when even Putin talked about using tactical nukes against us. Not to mention the europeans attitude when we downed a Russian jet.

If any nation needs nuclear weapons its Turkiye. No other nation has been and is threatened by as many nuclear armed nations at once then Turkiye. We need them not because we ever intend to use such things, but just to keep our enemies honest.

And a problem Turkiye is going to face, that as our domestic industry keeps rising our conventional might especially in the regions we are near to, will massively tip the scale in our favour, the last threat they have is nuclear threats.

Another Example, what would happen when Turkey would sink in an likely Conflict the Carrier Charles de Gaulle with Tayfun ASBM or with Subs ?

It's likely possible that France could answer with a nuclear tipped ASMP.

 

[Zafer]

Another Example, what would happen when Turkey would sink in an likely Conflict the Carrier Charles de Gaulle with Tayfun ASBM or with Subs ?

It's likely possible that France could answer with a nuclear tipped ASMP.

The conflict ends with Türkiye's victory, France continues shrinking.

 

[GoatsMilk]

Another Example, what would happen when Turkey would sink in an likely Conflict the Carrier Charles de Gaulle with Tayfun ASBM or with Subs ?

It's likely possible that France could answer with a nuclear tipped ASMP.

The way it looks to me, its inevitable that most nations on earth will get nuclear weapons at some point. It may take 50 years, it may take 200 years. But the idea that nukes will remain in a few hands indefinitely is unrealistic.

The real question is, will a nation like Turkiye lose first before getting them. A good example is Ukraine, she gave her nukes up and as a result she ended up facing a full on Russian invasion, that may one day completely annex the nation.

Another example of losing first was Russia threatening us over our interventions in Syria with things like nuclear strikes. They first had the crazy one whose clearly an agent of the Russian government threatened to nuke istanbul. Then once it looked like it wasnt going to deter us, Putin started actively talking about using tactical nukes against us. Have we been losing in the sense that we didn't pursue our interests fully because of fear of nuclear strike. Those threats would have been meaningless to us had we had our arsenal.

Had we had a nuclear arsenal with ballistic strike capability, would we have pursued our regional interests more aggressively and successfully. If the answer is yes, then we are losing already by not having them.