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Fighter_35

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There is no problem with the budgets. After the decisions taken in line with the Requirements and Needs, a conclusion was reached. No need to be silly here! Our diplomats are more knowledgeable on this subject than anyone else. I didn't want to say it, but there are 2 id**ts here, I won't tell their names, don't mix politics here anymore! They've been doing the same thing all along. They know themselves.
😂😂
Yes they know better !! That is why we are in this situation economically , politically .
There is no real diplomat maybe so few in current 'sahsim' state!!
Even an enemy of Türkiye would not put Turkey in this situation.
And with out budget ,you can do shit!
 

Rodeo

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There is no problem with the budgets. After the decisions taken in line with the Requirements and Needs, a conclusion was reached. No need to be silly here! Our diplomats are more knowledgeable on this subject than anyone else. I didn't want to say it, but there are 2 id**ts here, I won't tell their names, don't mix politics here anymore! They've been doing the same thing all along. They know themselves.
The budgets(not just defence) are highly problematic when the inflation is sky-rocketing. Those numbers, when posted in TL, means nothing. Because the value of Turkish Lira and the purchasing power of TL is not the same with a future date. The budget of 80 Billions Turkish Lira was worth $9.61 billions 3 months ago. Now it's worth $5.76 billions. That's %40 value loss. You have to make up for it somehow. It's impossible to do long-term(even mid-term) planning when TL is so volatile.
 
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T

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@Anmdt Is it navy's shipyard?
Today I took the photos
IMG_20211211_133018.jpg

IMG_20211211_133305.jpg

IMG_20211211_133133.jpg

IMG_20211211_133018.jpg
 

Trakya_forever

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Guys calm down. There is no need to argue. Its a simple mathematics. With this USDTRY rates it is sure that our defence budget is being devastated. I am so angry so I havent written anything for days.
 

Nilgiri

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With the devaluation, state earns more from the taxes, they have also updated stamp etc services fee by 31%.
So the costs will definitely increase for services and items origination from Turkey. Number 1 will be the salaries, companies will need to keep up salaries in a competitive level to not loose further employees.
And it is not absurd to expect the MSB / SSB will definitely get what they have planned to receive with the first budget too.

Yes as far as I know, a budget it planned expenditure for year, taking snapshot of TL "value" at time it is presented to be approved by parliament etc.

Things (inflation) can then occur in the year that can change the revenue and expenditures quite drastically.....but they will both be indexed (essentially) since the whole GDP is essentially inflating.

So 80 billion TL (in january 2021 lets say) alloted for defence will not stay as 80 billion TL...rather it will inflate....and like you say will be backed by the inflating receipts/revenues too.

The actual executed spending is generally presented (AFAIK by most countries) at budget time for the following year (I guess january 2022?).

Still this sudden inflation (in latter half of fiscal year - I believe turkey aligns it to calendar year) is very non-ideal for number of reasons both fiscally and more broadly.
 

Yasar_TR

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This reminds me of TCG Anadolu incident. We almost had a disaster in our hands. Fires on any ship is most alarming. There is so much explosives, fuel and valuable equipment that can be affected.
1639898447960.jpeg
 

Saithan

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This reminds me of TCG Anadolu incident. We almost had a disaster in our hands. Fires on any ship is most alarming. There is so much explosives, fuel and valuable equipment that can be affected.
View attachment 37437
It could be an attempt to sabotage as well. but it's mentioned as accident to cover it up.
 

Anmdt

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I understand what KS is saying. But surely TN must have received new FAC ?
Told by a person who doesn't know the developments pre-2010, Ada-Class and upgrades on frigates. Kilic-II Class are delivered after 2000, so does some of the Type 209s. Count in the upgrades that technically refurbishes a hull. Even Yavuz Class has received minor upgrades, 4 Gabyas are upgraded from trash to fully functioning frigate, while rest 4 upgraded from trash to a decent frigate.

A bit of googling and wiki could help him though. But sickness of 2020s, "i know it all, i know it right". Don't take these people serious lacking some basic historical knowledge apart from the technical one.

According to him, a new vessel should be commissioned every year as if the ships doesn't have service life of nearly 40 years with proper upgrades.

Appearantly he doesn't know the fact that TN could acquire frigates on a fast track in 2010s but they are stick with a plan to design and build it domestically. Or TTFAC project was delayed particularly because Navy has requested something and it took time.

Yes, TN is not in a 'good' condition operating fresh vessels but Navies have cycle of 20 to 30 years to replenish the fleet with new hulls. We are on the verge of this 30 years, and the fleet will be refreshed with new hulls in 2020. (The earlier cycle was 85 to 95)
 
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Khagan1923

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Told by a person who doesn't know the developments pre-2010, Ada-Class and upgrades on frigates. Kilic-II Class are delivered after 2000, so does some of the Type 209s. Count in the upgrades that technically refurbishes a hull. Even Yavuz Class has received minor upgrades, 4 Gabyas are upgraded from trash to fully functioning frigate, while rest 4 upgraded from trash to a decent frigate.

A bit of googling and wiki could help him though. But sickness of 2020s, "i know it all, i know it right". Don't take these people serious lacking some basic historical knowledge apart from the technical one.

According to him, a new vessel should be commissioned every year as if the ships doesn't have service life of nearly 40 years with proper upgrades.

Appearantly he doesn't know the fact that TN could acquire frigates on a fast track in 2010s but they are stick with a plan to design and build it domestically. Or TTFAC project was delayed particularly because Navy has requested something and it took time.

Yes, TN is not in a 'good' condition operating fresh vessels but Navies have cycle of 20 to 30 years to replenish the fleet with new hulls. We are on the verge of this 30 years, and the fleet will be refreshed with new hulls in 2020. (The earlier cycle was 85 to 95)

We could have aquired Destroyers equipped with ESSM and SM-2 Missiles 10 years ago but the Navy wanted its own design and to expand its capabilities, and thank god they did. Yes it took time and yes some vessels are old but now we are talking about building our own Destroyer with TF-2000 equipped with our own subsystems (well the majority at least) and missiles.

Imagine in what state we would be in if we had ordered 4 Alvaro de Bazan Destroyers from Spain 10 years ago. We would have gained immense capabilities in the short term but would be as advanced as we are now with our own industry? I do not believe it.

How operable would those ships be with the sanctions we are facing right now?

We have and are developing solutions that we might not have seen if we had gone with foreign suppliers.

In the next ten years the navy most likely will commission over a dozen ships. Many of those large surface vessels (I-Class, TF-2000, LHD, FAC, ADKG).

I understand being grounded by sadly some people in the industry love being the overly pessimist who has do find the bad in everything.

I think I prefer this situation to one where our Destroyers are left without missiles and modernizations because our so called "Allies" have sanctioned us.
 

Saithan

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I believe that TN needs to grow bigger according to our EEZ size as well. If TN size remains the same it means we'll have to stretch our ressources to cover our EEZ. And in cases we'll have to dedicate many ressources to cover our national interests outside what is ours. E.g. Libya when we committed vessels to guard and deter. IMO we need 1-2 Corvette (PN type with 16 VLS) extra in TN, if one vessel has to sail back for any reason another must take it's place.
 

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Nilgiri

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According to him, a new vessel should be commissioned every year as if the ships doesn't have service life of nearly 40 years with proper upgrades.

Yah lot of people dont understand shipyards and what investment (of time and resource) goes into hull production....that then becomes a baked in setting for the navy planners+designers to make use of and evolve for the lifetime of use. There are also all kind of inertias involved in this in the middle layers.

It is not cheap or casual stuff to dispose of and/or pump out like hotcakes of something else overnight.

Each and every resource (produced+deployed or planned) must be value-extracted optimally w.r.t opportunity cost.

That deeper layer must be understood first.
 
T

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I wonder if it is technically possible that two faced rotating naval radar.

For instance Cenk-S rotating together with Mar-D which is X band.

İt would give 360 degree coverage at real time. Also your CIWS wouldn't require additional radars.

Although 4 Fixed panel AESA radars is best solution , Rotating two radar would be cheaper as well as using two different bands would be better.
Moreover when you need to hide your ship , you could turnoff Cenk-S and switch MAR-D with less emition .

There are Russian and Chinese old gen two faced naval radars.

300px-Handan_%28579%29_Frigate_-_Type_382_Radar.jpg



274px-%D0%A0%D0%9B%D0%A1_%D0%A4%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%82-%D0%9C%D0%90_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%91%D0%9F%D0%9A_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0_1155%2C_2011-07-05.jpg


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İmagine Cenk-S band and MAR-D X band are rotating together. There would be no gap against Anti-ship missiles for reasonable cost.
 
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